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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Argument at Christmas meal…

260 replies

Violet4 · 28/11/2021 05:45

NC for this one. DH’s parents are away this Christmas who live locally and my parents live 4 hours away. We generally have a tradition each year as everyone gets on very well where we will do a pre Xmas get together myself, DH, in laws, my parents, SIL/BIL (SIL has children we do not yet). Is generally always a nice evening out and has been going on for about 5-6 years now since married.

Anyway tonight we had this meal, went to a local french restaurant, all well - drinks flowing but not to an excessive extent that I was aware of. The bill came at the end, bill agreed to be split 4 ways. My father insisted on paying, only at this point I noticed he was quite drunk at the table. Really nice thought but we all insisted no, this went back and forth to the point where it got incredibly awkward. In the end bill agreed to be split 4 ways between couples but he became a bit grumpy, subject changed all fine. Then my mum who had forgotten her glasses, handed me her card and asked me to put it in the machine for her, I misheard what she said and replied “sorry, what did you say?” Across the table. At which point my father said “for f**cks sake Violet4 just sort it out stop making a fuss.” Myself and my mother looked across at him at the table confused, as it was so out of context and I explained to him the only issue was I hadn’t been able to hear my mother. Again all fine.

Meal ended, bit of a strange atmosphere at the end but nevermind, all said goodbye lovely meal etc. Restaurant is a short walk home so myself DH and parents began the walk.

As soon as my PIL and SIL were out of ear shot, my Dad absolutely lost it started asking “what the hell was your problem at the table I saw the way you two were looking at me” , we were absolutely bemused and explained he was making something out of nothing and just drunk, this caused him to get more and more angry resulted in him screaming in the street, swearing, called us a “pair of pr*cks” , shouting at us saying JUST WALK AWAY, but then kept trying to walk past us first. Clearly absolutely hammered drunk. Almost squaring up to us, nostrils flaring really really frightening. All got very emotional and very very nasty, DH walked ahead with myself and my Mother, he trailed behind stormed off somewhere then I heard him come in about 20 mins after us. They are staying at ours. I got home in tears, as did my mother. Now everyone asleep and I’ve been wide awake all night. Obviously they live 4 hours away so nowhere else for him to stay and really sad as we only see them once a month or so. It was honestly frightening, I’ve never seen him like that.

Now I know people say “this is out of character”, I am 34 years old and drunk or otherwise I have NEVER seen my father behave in that way, ever. Nor has my Mother and her reaction tonight you could tell she was utterly shell shocked afterwards. We have a very close relationship we speak daily on the phone and she tells me every little disagreement they’ve ever had etc. I really believe her that he’s never done this before.
I can’t piece together why this has happened tonight. He recently lost his mother (my grandmother) and he himself has been quite unwell with Covid. Maybe linked to that but I just don’t know why this behaviour manifested out of absolutely nothing.

Anyway if you have got this far, thank you. I don’t really know what I am posting for, I’ve been awake anxious about the morning for most of the night and not sure how to navigate this tommorrow. We have plans with SIL and her kids before they head off tomorrow and I don’t even think I can face being around him after last night, despite the fact he’s in the guest room as we speak…

Thank you x

OP posts:
C8H10N4O2 · 28/11/2021 12:03

I will be keeping tabs though going forward with Mum x

I would be looking for their current social /household practices to try and identify just how much they are geared to your DF's preferences with DM going along because "its easier" or "its fine".

I see this a lot, particularly with older women in long term relationships who are so much in the habit doing things according to the DH's preferences they don't even see it themselves. They would be shocked if you talked in terms of control but that is what it is and its a pattern that can escalate very rapidly when something out of the ordinary happens, including longer term illness. Its not your DF's fault he was bereaved and had covid, ,but more importantly it wasn't your DM's either.

If someone can control their behaviour toward one group of people then they can do the same toward others but are choosing not to.

RockinHorseShit · 28/11/2021 12:06

@C8H10N4O2

You need to work on those listening skills, or are you just deliberately obtuse 🙄

C8H10N4O2 · 28/11/2021 12:09

[quote RockinHorseShit]@C8H10N4O2

You need to work on those listening skills, or are you just deliberately obtuse 🙄[/quote]
Still can't answer I see.

Perhaps we should try to find a research grant so that you can work out what it is, this mystery ailment which causes male abuse of women only.

JudgeJ · 28/11/2021 12:09

@Opal8

Nope.

Why do we make excuses for men to behave like this?

We all go through bereavement and many of us have had covid.

Are we all getting hammered then screaming in the street and squaring up to our female children?

No.

Op. I'm sorry. But please don't shrug this off and honestly? Don't expect an apology. How is your mum? What did she say?

There seems to be an embedded idea that domestic violence is all one way, man abuses woman, but in reality it happens both ways, sadly men are less likely to admit to being a victim for fear of not appearing 'macho' enough. We shouldn't makes excuses for anyone's violence nor for anyone squaring up to another person.
mellicauli · 28/11/2021 12:10

Your poor Dad. He really wanted to enjoy himself after everything he has been through. But found he couldn't (still grieving no doubt) and it all came flooding out.. unfortunately, at you..

Assuming this is a one off, I'd just give him a big hug, tell him he's an idiot and move on.

C8H10N4O2 · 28/11/2021 12:11

There seems to be an embedded idea that domestic violence is all one way, man abuses woman, but in reality it happens both ways, sadly men are less likely to admit to being a victim for fear of not appearing 'macho' enough

Violence in general is overwhelmingly a male behaviour (including in domestic relationships with two men). Over 90% of violent incidents.

Violence against women is even more likely to be committed by men.

Sexual violence against women and men is even more likely to be committed by men.

The fact that some women commit violent acts does not alter the fact that overwhelmingly violence is a male behaviour, especially when the target is a woman.

SpangleWhorl · 28/11/2021 12:14

Thanks for updating, @Violet4. I know you'll keep an eye on your DM and I'm glad of that.

DietrichandDiMaggio · 28/11/2021 12:16

going to use the car journey to discuss further and ask him if he really is ok psychologically as last night was a real worry

Do you think your dad is going to appreciate you going on at him about his drunken behaviour whilst in the car on the way to your walk?

SpangleWhorl · 28/11/2021 12:19

And @C8H10N4O2 is correct in what she says. Violence against women is overwhelmingly carried out by men; and violence against men is overwhelmingly carried out by men. Those are the stats.

'Overwhelmingly' does not = 100%. But the violence against women figures are in the 90s, last I looked at the Home Office research stats.

Expressing concern for the OP's mum within that context is hardly an overreach. To quote a MN cliché, it's "just saying".

HeadNorth · 28/11/2021 12:20

Red wine can be a beast - it turns ny sister into a monster, she is banned from drinking it! It sounds like a mix of a stressful year, unresolved grief, and too much red wine when tolerance is still low because of covid.

You and your family sound lovely. We can all make tits of ourselves at times, that is when we need our family's love and understanding most, when we are at our worst. If your mum says it is a genuine one off and out of character then I think a bit of love and understanding will be more valuable than pursed lips and judgement.

Hopefully the walk can help mend some fences and everyone can work together to help the healing process.

DottyHarmer · 28/11/2021 12:22

It is a bit wearing when posters mention dementia (when someone is 40) but in this case it is a bit of a red flag. Mil started just like this in her late 60s. Random losing her temper over trivialities. And the family not realising because fil was desperate to cover it up. No one saw that mil was shouting and raving at fil at home; they only saw the odd snapshot and thought they were “one offs”, not daily occurrences.

whynotwhatknot · 28/11/2021 12:31

how was he mortified if he doesnt remember what happened

sorry i dont buy that and usually nor do posters here

he called you a prick that would be it for me

Coffeetree · 28/11/2021 12:32

He chose to scream abuse at you and your mum, after everyone left. I'm surprised your husband let him back in the house, let alone stay over.

If I screamed abuse at any relatives I'd be sent packing, not hugged and brought on a nice day out. No matter if I'd had a "difficult year".

There's something about the OP's description that makes me wonder whether there's been lower level bullying. Calling it an "argument", describing in detail the hard year he's had. The fact that they were still considering spending the day together after that!

Rosemaryandlemon · 28/11/2021 12:36

As others have said my first thought was dementia. My sisters MIL was the sweetest, nicest person you could ever meet. She hit my sister at Christmas dinner a few years ago. She was shortly after diagnosed with dementia.

JudgeJ · 28/11/2021 12:38

Violence in general is overwhelmingly a male behaviour (including in domestic relationships with two men). Over 90% of violent incidents.

A misuse of statistics, 90% of reported violent incidents.

RockinHorseShit · 28/11/2021 12:40

@SpangleWhorl

Expressing concern for the OP's mum within that context is hardly an overreach. To quote a MN cliché, it's "just saying".

I don't disagree that suggesting it as something to keep in mind is an overreach at all. Insisting this is the case, when so many factors in the OP says there's much more going on, is IMHO pretty crass though, when the OP is obviously shaken up by what's happened as it's far from normal behaviour from her DF

Livelovebehappy · 28/11/2021 12:41

[quote RockinHorseShit]@Livelovebehappy anxiety is a symptom of PA too. DD is awful for that when her B12 is low & I get very jumpy too.

I was lucky that when I had covid, thanks to being a long time sufferer of issues with vitamin metabolism, I recognised the vitamin dumping symptoms & treat it with extra zinc iron & C, this fixed my lack of smell & taste & extra B12 injections with folate & B bits & coconut water for potassium fixed the rest of it. Lots of discussion on the Pernicious Anaemia groups have lead to it now being taken seriously & studied with positive results. I think some countries are already using it as treatment, I know my friend in Spain was given B12 injections, plus a pure form of vitamin D when he was hospitalised with covid in Spain

Good luck [/quote]
That’s really interesting. I had covid last year and still have lack of smell and taste 12 months later (now developed into Parosmia). I take zinc and vit c, and I feel fine in other aspects apart from the Parosmia and memory loss (also take lipoid acid). I think there will definitely be more long term health issues which will develop for covid sufferers in the years to come.

SunshineCake1 · 28/11/2021 12:42

I hope everyone is okay. Glad he apologised thought worried for @Opal8 left breast now.

You've all had such a horrible time and maybe he genuinely couldn't remember and maybe he needed a bit of help to apologise but he's said sorry now.

Vickles20 · 28/11/2021 12:50

Thanks for the update OP. I hope you all manage to enjoy today. Do give us an update later when you get a chance x

Babyroobs · 28/11/2021 12:54

If this is completely out of character for him as you say it is then it could well be that he has been under extreme stress/ he is depressed/ not coping. nothing can excuse his behaviour but you do need to have a chat with him and explain how much this has affected your mum and yourself.

Nanny0gg · 28/11/2021 13:18

@whynotwhatknot

how was he mortified if he doesnt remember what happened

sorry i dont buy that and usually nor do posters here

he called you a prick that would be it for me

Because he was told
DontBeCatty · 28/11/2021 13:18

Bit late now and missing the point a bit but I really like to agree who is paying for bills beforehand. Makes life a lot simpler.

Mantlemoose · 28/11/2021 13:21

Honestly - he's had a shitty year, he's lost his mum, he's been very unwell and just wanted to pay for dinner but you felt you needed to make a big deal out of it. " I will be keeping tabs though going forward with Mum" - this says it all for me, give the guy a break!

blowtheroofoff · 28/11/2021 13:31

My first thought of this is dementia.

My Dad has just been diagnosed with mixed dementia and about 4/5 years ago he had a huge, out-of-character outburst at me over something very minor. I started seeing little personality changes after that, maybe because I was looking out for it more, and if it wasn't for the pandemic, I think he could have been diagnosed a lot earlier.

A trip to the doc might be useful ...

1forAll74 · 28/11/2021 13:32

It looks like your Father was over reacting (maybe because of too much alcohol) because he wanted to pay for all the meals, and he was kind of stopped, with all the confrontations about the money, so then he was unhappy about everything. I know some people who would get angry and huffy about something like this.