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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Argument at Christmas meal…

260 replies

Violet4 · 28/11/2021 05:45

NC for this one. DH’s parents are away this Christmas who live locally and my parents live 4 hours away. We generally have a tradition each year as everyone gets on very well where we will do a pre Xmas get together myself, DH, in laws, my parents, SIL/BIL (SIL has children we do not yet). Is generally always a nice evening out and has been going on for about 5-6 years now since married.

Anyway tonight we had this meal, went to a local french restaurant, all well - drinks flowing but not to an excessive extent that I was aware of. The bill came at the end, bill agreed to be split 4 ways. My father insisted on paying, only at this point I noticed he was quite drunk at the table. Really nice thought but we all insisted no, this went back and forth to the point where it got incredibly awkward. In the end bill agreed to be split 4 ways between couples but he became a bit grumpy, subject changed all fine. Then my mum who had forgotten her glasses, handed me her card and asked me to put it in the machine for her, I misheard what she said and replied “sorry, what did you say?” Across the table. At which point my father said “for f**cks sake Violet4 just sort it out stop making a fuss.” Myself and my mother looked across at him at the table confused, as it was so out of context and I explained to him the only issue was I hadn’t been able to hear my mother. Again all fine.

Meal ended, bit of a strange atmosphere at the end but nevermind, all said goodbye lovely meal etc. Restaurant is a short walk home so myself DH and parents began the walk.

As soon as my PIL and SIL were out of ear shot, my Dad absolutely lost it started asking “what the hell was your problem at the table I saw the way you two were looking at me” , we were absolutely bemused and explained he was making something out of nothing and just drunk, this caused him to get more and more angry resulted in him screaming in the street, swearing, called us a “pair of pr*cks” , shouting at us saying JUST WALK AWAY, but then kept trying to walk past us first. Clearly absolutely hammered drunk. Almost squaring up to us, nostrils flaring really really frightening. All got very emotional and very very nasty, DH walked ahead with myself and my Mother, he trailed behind stormed off somewhere then I heard him come in about 20 mins after us. They are staying at ours. I got home in tears, as did my mother. Now everyone asleep and I’ve been wide awake all night. Obviously they live 4 hours away so nowhere else for him to stay and really sad as we only see them once a month or so. It was honestly frightening, I’ve never seen him like that.

Now I know people say “this is out of character”, I am 34 years old and drunk or otherwise I have NEVER seen my father behave in that way, ever. Nor has my Mother and her reaction tonight you could tell she was utterly shell shocked afterwards. We have a very close relationship we speak daily on the phone and she tells me every little disagreement they’ve ever had etc. I really believe her that he’s never done this before.
I can’t piece together why this has happened tonight. He recently lost his mother (my grandmother) and he himself has been quite unwell with Covid. Maybe linked to that but I just don’t know why this behaviour manifested out of absolutely nothing.

Anyway if you have got this far, thank you. I don’t really know what I am posting for, I’ve been awake anxious about the morning for most of the night and not sure how to navigate this tommorrow. We have plans with SIL and her kids before they head off tomorrow and I don’t even think I can face being around him after last night, despite the fact he’s in the guest room as we speak…

Thank you x

OP posts:
WineAway · 28/11/2021 09:43

It wasn’t an argument though was it? It was one man getting arsey then being violent to his wife & daughter. Screaming & swearing is violence. Not to the men as pointed out, funny that.

No big hugs, no let’s pretend it didn’t happen, no tip toeing & walking on egg shells.

Watch your mum OP, he may be behaving like this at home.

Honeymint · 28/11/2021 09:45

@Opal8
This isn’t about ‘not upsetting the abusive drunk’, this is a person who apparently has never had an outburst like this before and has suddenly acted completely out of character after a difficult year of illness and the death of their mother.

The lack of empathy on this thread is horrifying. OP has said he’s not a drunk and hasn’t acted like this before. Calling their father an ‘abusive drunk’ is ridiculous.

He’s a human being and has made a mistake which he’s sure to regret in the morning.

And to the person suggesting he chose to abuse two women because he perceived them as weaker than him, that’s absolute garbage. He yelled at them because they were his family.

I’m not at all condoning his behaviour but ignoring that this is a one off event is lunacy.

lescompagnonsdeloue · 28/11/2021 09:48

@KosherDill

I'm sorry your meal was ruined.

It seems everyone is ganging up on him. He's had a rough year. And having his generous offer to pay spurned in front of everyone had to be hurtful. Why didn't you just let him make the gesture?

Especially if all that faffing and haggling followed.

I'd be apologizing to your dad if I were you.

I don't understand your point about the OP allowing him to make the gesture. The in-laws were there too. In my family at least, that would make a difference, in-laws would want to put in the same.
ClaudiaJ1 · 28/11/2021 09:49

@Lasair

If this is truly the first time you’ve ever seen him like this I’d wouldn’t give it another thought I’d just get over it and treat him normally today. Now if it becomes a regular occurrence that’s different and needs to be addressed. Not really sure why it’s kept you up all night? You seem a bit dramatic. Just move on. You’ve stressed this is the first time so give him the benefit of doubt.
@Lasair Wow, just when I thought people couldn't be more enabling and victim-blaming..... Yes, let a man get away with physically intimidating a woman 'the first time'....
C8H10N4O2 · 28/11/2021 09:49

As with almost all supposedly "out of control" male outbursts of aggression and rage, he managed to make the clear-headed choice to aim it directly at a woman

Yes I found this striking as well.

I would speak to your DM and try to establish how much this is a bigger emanation of a pattern of smaller behaviours she has just learned to live with and pander to. You say they don't go out a great deal, is that your DM's choice as well?

LowlandLucky · 28/11/2021 09:49

Ask your Mum if she has noticed anything else untowards about your Dad's behaviour these last few moths. Sudden outbursts could be caused by many underlying health conditions. Your Dad is not young he is a pensioner. It could be is was just being a prat. Hope you have a much better day

GoodbyePorpoiseSpit · 28/11/2021 09:50

It sure why you found my post ridiculous @Mookie81?
He drank and was then abusive to his wife and daughter in the street
Most people who enjoy wine with dinner don’t turn into raving drunks screaming at family so my conclusion is that him drinking to excess is a problem. Or to put it another way: he has a drinking problem

Factoryfloor · 28/11/2021 09:51

To err is human to forgive divine. The total lack of forgiveness on this thread for a person who acted totally out of character after a difficult year is very sad

Livelovebehappy · 28/11/2021 09:51

[quote RockinHorseShit]@Livelovebehappy see the link in my last response, this could be your DB too [/quote]
rockinghorseshit thank you. I’ll look into that. My DH has also had covid and has developed anxiety out of nowhere. He’s self employed, and has generally had a lot of self confidence. He now stresses about a lot of things. Like mixing socially with friends and family and was very stressed in the lead up to a recent holiday. Also has started getting anxious when starting work for new customers. With the recent issues with my brother, that got me starting to think maybe the virus attacks parts of the brain and affects their function? I will certainly read up on the B12 suggestion.

SeaToSki · 28/11/2021 09:53

I'm am going to guess it's money problems and he is feeling like a failure because of the problems and so is projecting his feelings of failure and it's coming out as anger.

I would chat to your Mum and be frank about it with her. See if she can shed any light. Just don't brush it under the carpet, it won't do your father any favours to be carrying a burden that makes him lash out in this way.

Another option is that he is having some issue with his brain. Is his coordination slipping, can he feel and control all the parts of his body in th same way he always has? Might be worth suggesting he has a check up with his GP

RockinHorseShit · 28/11/2021 09:53

He’s a human being and has made a mistake which he’s sure to regret in the morning.

I think you missed the bit that said he's a man @Honeymint, so he isn't a human being worthy of any understanding of grief or health problems

& yes I am being sarcastic & completely agree with you about posters on here & lack of empathy to anyone with a dick

ClaudiaJ1 · 28/11/2021 09:54

[quote Honeymint]@Opal8
This isn’t about ‘not upsetting the abusive drunk’, this is a person who apparently has never had an outburst like this before and has suddenly acted completely out of character after a difficult year of illness and the death of their mother.

The lack of empathy on this thread is horrifying. OP has said he’s not a drunk and hasn’t acted like this before. Calling their father an ‘abusive drunk’ is ridiculous.

He’s a human being and has made a mistake which he’s sure to regret in the morning.

And to the person suggesting he chose to abuse two women because he perceived them as weaker than him, that’s absolute garbage. He yelled at them because they were his family.

I’m not at all condoning his behaviour but ignoring that this is a one off event is lunacy.[/quote]
You are condoning his behaviour. He was violent to his wife and daughter, and there is NO...EXCUSE for it. None, whatsoever. You are an enabler and your attitude is disgusting.

Also, why can't it be both? He physically intimidated (not just mere 'yelled at') his wife and daughter because they are family and, because they are women.

blameless · 28/11/2021 09:55

Sometimes, meals aren't just meals.
I had a rough lockdown, some long-covid symptoms and another health condition that continued for almost a year. I organised a meal, as a treat for many past kindnesses, it was long in the planning and delayed multiple times before it finally happened. The bill came to £400 per head which is a lot of money for me but which I gladly paid.
The day was hugely emotional for me, at times I wasn't sure that I would be alive to see it, the logistics of people traveling from distant parts were challenging. I didn't mention this to anyone at the time.
The following day, I thanked people for coming and explained how the day had been for me, for one guest to reply that the food had been good, but I was clearly off and needed to sort myself out.
I suspect father has become very aware of his mortality and maybe experiencing signs of age-related illness. Good luck.

Bigbonesmeatandgravy · 28/11/2021 09:57

If this was a friend or colleague I would be in complete agreement with the posters taking a harder line but because it's the OP's father, someone she seems close to who hasn't behaved like this before, I would approach this with compassion. Explain that his behaviour was out of character and really upsetting and and him why. It could open up a conversation that could benefit everybody.

ClaudiaJ1 · 28/11/2021 09:58

@Factoryfloor

To err is human to forgive divine. The total lack of forgiveness on this thread for a person who acted totally out of character after a difficult year is very sad
@Factoryfloor One can only forgive if an apology is made.... No one is saying she shouldn't forgive him if he truly shows remorse. We are saying that his behaviour needs to be called out and talked about, not swept under the carpet.

And having a 'difficult year' does NOT excuse violence and physically intimating women, and it's very sad you think that it is at all justifiable. NOTHING can EVER justify a male physically intimidating a woman. EVER.

millerpie · 28/11/2021 09:58

He’s grieving, he’s been ill with covid and he was drunk. He tried to do something nice and pay the bill but you wouldn’t let him, he probably felt embarrassed and it all came out. I suspect he’ll either not remember or pretended he doesn’t.

StEval · 28/11/2021 09:59

Calling their father an ‘abusive drunk’ is ridiculous.
Why?
Thats exactly what he wasConfused
Im a non violent person.
If today I go and hit somone it makes me violent.
50 years of non violence doesnt make it ok .

RockinHorseShit · 28/11/2021 10:01

@Livelovebehappy anxiety is a symptom of PA too. DD is awful for that when her B12 is low & I get very jumpy too.

I was lucky that when I had covid, thanks to being a long time sufferer of issues with vitamin metabolism, I recognised the vitamin dumping symptoms & treat it with extra zinc iron & C, this fixed my lack of smell & taste & extra B12 injections with folate & B bits & coconut water for potassium fixed the rest of it. Lots of discussion on the Pernicious Anaemia groups have lead to it now being taken seriously & studied with positive results. I think some countries are already using it as treatment, I know my friend in Spain was given B12 injections, plus a pure form of vitamin D when he was hospitalised with covid in Spain

Good luck

Outlyingtrout · 28/11/2021 10:03

And to the person suggesting he chose to abuse two women because he perceived them as weaker than him, that’s absolute garbage. He yelled at them because they were his family.

I think you missed the bit that said he's a man @Honeymint, so he isn't a human being worthy of any understanding of grief or health problems

I don't think I've ever heard about a mother who has become drunk on a perfectly civilised family night out (supposedly after having their pride hurt when their offer to pay was declined) and aggressively lashed out at their spouse and adult child, including physically squaring up to and intimidating them. Let's not pretend this isn't male pattern behaviour.

inkworks273 · 28/11/2021 10:05

@Lasair

If this is truly the first time you’ve ever seen him like this I’d wouldn’t give it another thought I’d just get over it and treat him normally today. Now if it becomes a regular occurrence that’s different and needs to be addressed. Not really sure why it’s kept you up all night? You seem a bit dramatic. Just move on. You’ve stressed this is the first time so give him the benefit of doubt.
This is absolutely ridiculous.

Why should OP ignore his behaviour and act like nothing happened? He was verbally abusive and also squared up to his daughter and wife.

Of course OP is going to be upset. She has every right to be and that doesn't make her dramatic.

Now I'm not saying she has to hold a grudge and not move past it but her dad has to apologise first and make assurances that it will never happen again.

coodawoodashooda · 28/11/2021 10:07

@Bigbonesmeatandgravy

If this was a friend or colleague I would be in complete agreement with the posters taking a harder line but because it's the OP's father, someone she seems close to who hasn't behaved like this before, I would approach this with compassion. Explain that his behaviour was out of character and really upsetting and and him why. It could open up a conversation that could benefit everybody.
This.
tallduckandhandsome · 28/11/2021 10:09

Why do these men only find a woman to abuse? Ehy didn’t he take his stress out on OP’s DH or BIL or FIL?

I can’t believe people are making excuses for him.

OP, I hope you’ve ignored the fucker and gone out to enjoy the sunshine without him.

It sounds like you run around after this twatbag as you live 4 hours away and he sees you as a receptacle for his anger.

Cherrysoup · 28/11/2021 10:11

I’d be interested to hear if he apologise is still defensive today.

Redburnett · 28/11/2021 10:12

My guess is he won't remember much about last night. I would maintain a polite but cool, manner for the rest of their stay and leave your DM to deal with him later. Perhaps cancel your Christmas visit in case of a repeat. I would put it down to one of those things that happens when people drink way too much, far beyond being rational, not reflective of their true nature.

tallduckandhandsome · 28/11/2021 10:13

I definitely wouldn’t have Christmas with him.

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