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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Argument at Christmas meal…

260 replies

Violet4 · 28/11/2021 05:45

NC for this one. DH’s parents are away this Christmas who live locally and my parents live 4 hours away. We generally have a tradition each year as everyone gets on very well where we will do a pre Xmas get together myself, DH, in laws, my parents, SIL/BIL (SIL has children we do not yet). Is generally always a nice evening out and has been going on for about 5-6 years now since married.

Anyway tonight we had this meal, went to a local french restaurant, all well - drinks flowing but not to an excessive extent that I was aware of. The bill came at the end, bill agreed to be split 4 ways. My father insisted on paying, only at this point I noticed he was quite drunk at the table. Really nice thought but we all insisted no, this went back and forth to the point where it got incredibly awkward. In the end bill agreed to be split 4 ways between couples but he became a bit grumpy, subject changed all fine. Then my mum who had forgotten her glasses, handed me her card and asked me to put it in the machine for her, I misheard what she said and replied “sorry, what did you say?” Across the table. At which point my father said “for f**cks sake Violet4 just sort it out stop making a fuss.” Myself and my mother looked across at him at the table confused, as it was so out of context and I explained to him the only issue was I hadn’t been able to hear my mother. Again all fine.

Meal ended, bit of a strange atmosphere at the end but nevermind, all said goodbye lovely meal etc. Restaurant is a short walk home so myself DH and parents began the walk.

As soon as my PIL and SIL were out of ear shot, my Dad absolutely lost it started asking “what the hell was your problem at the table I saw the way you two were looking at me” , we were absolutely bemused and explained he was making something out of nothing and just drunk, this caused him to get more and more angry resulted in him screaming in the street, swearing, called us a “pair of pr*cks” , shouting at us saying JUST WALK AWAY, but then kept trying to walk past us first. Clearly absolutely hammered drunk. Almost squaring up to us, nostrils flaring really really frightening. All got very emotional and very very nasty, DH walked ahead with myself and my Mother, he trailed behind stormed off somewhere then I heard him come in about 20 mins after us. They are staying at ours. I got home in tears, as did my mother. Now everyone asleep and I’ve been wide awake all night. Obviously they live 4 hours away so nowhere else for him to stay and really sad as we only see them once a month or so. It was honestly frightening, I’ve never seen him like that.

Now I know people say “this is out of character”, I am 34 years old and drunk or otherwise I have NEVER seen my father behave in that way, ever. Nor has my Mother and her reaction tonight you could tell she was utterly shell shocked afterwards. We have a very close relationship we speak daily on the phone and she tells me every little disagreement they’ve ever had etc. I really believe her that he’s never done this before.
I can’t piece together why this has happened tonight. He recently lost his mother (my grandmother) and he himself has been quite unwell with Covid. Maybe linked to that but I just don’t know why this behaviour manifested out of absolutely nothing.

Anyway if you have got this far, thank you. I don’t really know what I am posting for, I’ve been awake anxious about the morning for most of the night and not sure how to navigate this tommorrow. We have plans with SIL and her kids before they head off tomorrow and I don’t even think I can face being around him after last night, despite the fact he’s in the guest room as we speak…

Thank you x

OP posts:
TillyTopper · 28/11/2021 10:14

Absolutely not making excuses for your Dad, but as you say he has had covid, I just wondered. Maybe he hasn't drunk alcohol for a while due to illness and when we was at the meal it hit him (had he had food before drinking?). I am not minimising the way you all felt, but just suggesting that it could be just the alcohol after a period of abstinence especially if he didn't have food beforehand. I mention this as I went without alcohol for about a year and then when I did drink - OMG! But I'm a happy drunk so it didn't affect me in that way.

Switch82 · 28/11/2021 10:19

Honestly he’s had a bloody shit year of it - it’s a one off. Maybe him paying the bill might have made him feel generous and therefore better. £300 maybe in the grand scheme isn’t a lot for him and it’s lesson learnt for him if it is! Personally I would have just let him pay and then that would have been it.

peboh · 28/11/2021 10:20

Was he embarrassed that you all refused to allow him to cover the bill? That coupled with drink, and awkwardness could be part of the reason as to why he blew off. Especially as you said he grumbled that you were looking at him?

That's no an excuse though, and he absolutely should apologise today.

tallduckandhandsome · 28/11/2021 10:20

@TillyTopper

Absolutely not making excuses for your Dad, but as you say he has had covid, I just wondered. Maybe he hasn't drunk alcohol for a while due to illness and when we was at the meal it hit him (had he had food before drinking?). I am not minimising the way you all felt, but just suggesting that it could be just the alcohol after a period of abstinence especially if he didn't have food beforehand. I mention this as I went without alcohol for about a year and then when I did drink - OMG! But I'm a happy drunk so it didn't affect me in that way.
“absolutely not making excuses for him” …. them goes on to make excuses for him. Hmm

Male aggression is never acceptable.

UniversalAunt · 28/11/2021 10:20

‘ My mum died over a year ago, and I’ve never known grief like it, or had such a dip in my mental health, although I manage to cover it up most of the time. When a parent dies it also magnifies the sound of the clock for you, and people respond differently to that; it can be hard to cope with, perhaps more so for men. And grief is not a linear thing that fades naturally over time - it comes in waves and stabs and folds in on itself, so you suddenly find you’re back in a place you thought you’d moved on from.’

Very well put.

itsallgoingpearshaped · 28/11/2021 10:23

I hope things are calmer this morning, OP.

I would be wondering after losing his mum to covid, and himself being ill with it, that perhaps he can't process alcohol the way he used to ... especially since he wasn't much of a drinker in the first place. Combination all hit at once ...

He does need to apologize and explain himself, calmly, because his behaviour absolutely wasn't acceptable. But it does sound like he kind of exploded, so perhaps has been holding a lot of things in this past year?

C8H10N4O2 · 28/11/2021 10:24

Can anyone explain why covid, B12 deficiencies, anxiety etc cause the bad behaviour to be directed against women to the point of being abusive and squaring up to them whilst managing to retain control with the men?

RockinHorseShit · 28/11/2021 10:27

@C8H10N4O2

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Would you like some vinegar with that chip on your shoulder

EstuaryBird · 28/11/2021 10:28

@Violet4

There are a lot of people here that have strong opinions on a man they don’t know in a situation where they were not present.

You, and your Mum, need to talk to your Dad.

Honeymint · 28/11/2021 10:29

[quote EstuaryBird]@Violet4

There are a lot of people here that have strong opinions on a man they don’t know in a situation where they were not present.

You, and your Mum, need to talk to your Dad.[/quote]
Very well put.
I hope everything works out okay for you and your family, OP.

UniversalAunt · 28/11/2021 10:30

‘ I don't think I've ever heard about a mother who has become drunk on a perfectly civilised family night out (supposedly after having their pride hurt when their offer to pay was declined) and aggressively lashed out at their spouse and adult child, including physically squaring up to and intimidating them.’

I suggest that you get out more or read more Mumsnet.
Aggressive behaviours & events are common place in family life, irrespective of sex, the style, context & content vary.

IamGusFring · 28/11/2021 10:31

My first thought on reading this was that he may be suffering from early signs of dementia - I've been through two parent and PIL with this and one of the signs is uncharacteristic aggressive behaviour sometimes caused by a mini stroke . They can suffer these then go back to normal until the next one . I would be getting your Mum to observe how he is going forward and possibly getting checked at the doctor .( I've just realised how stupid that last bit is in Covid times )

MrsLargeEmbodied · 28/11/2021 10:32

something is obviously up with him op, hope all is resolved

maddy68 · 28/11/2021 10:33

It's out of character. He wanted to pay he felt humiliated that you didnt let him. (Even though that's the right thing).

He felt embarrassed you thought he couldnt afford it , you then started dusaing sorting the payments out prolonging his embarrassment

He was pissed and angry
Leave him in bed today to nurse his hangover
Go out as planned today while he licks his wounds.

Sort it out when you get home. It's no biggie on the grand scheme of things.

tallduckandhandsome · 28/11/2021 10:33

@C8H10N4O2

Can anyone explain why covid, B12 deficiencies, anxiety etc cause the bad behaviour to be directed against women to the point of being abusive and squaring up to them whilst managing to retain control with the men?
Exactly.

The handmaiders are out in force again 🤣 As you can see, they won’t answer your question but will say you have a chip on your shoulder.

FangsForTheMemory · 28/11/2021 10:35

Early dementia was my thought, but also possibly an after-effect of COVID. Assuming he can remember how he felt last night, I would be talking to him about it and insisting he see a doctor. It is possible to see a doctor, though it can be hard to get a face to face appointment. If it's the result of grief, he needs counselling. Either way I'd be asking him not to touch alcohol again.

C8H10N4O2 · 28/11/2021 10:36

[quote RockinHorseShit]@C8H10N4O2

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Would you like some vinegar with that chip on your shoulder [/quote]
Do tell, what is the reason? Obviously you have great insight that I lack.

nettie434 · 28/11/2021 10:37

There is a huge difference between someone who was stressed and got drunk on a one off basis and someone who is regularly abusive and violent. The OP is sure that nothing like this has happened before, as is her mum.

Violet4, I am sorry that what was meant to be a lovely evening ended this way. It must have been a shock. You said you were an over thinker so I can imagine you are worried this is a sign of something else. Some posters have mentioned dementia but the number of people who develop dementia in their 60s is very small, especially if they don't have another risk factor, like a history of alcohol abuse. I think it sounds like your dad was already stressed, drank more than he was used to, and perhaps was upset by the faffing over the bill. Obviously, you and your mum should be alert to see if other similar events start happening but the odds are that it isn't the start of something serious.

Hopefully he will wake up with nothing worse than a headache and an uncomfortable memory of making a mistake last night.

StEval · 28/11/2021 10:37

Do tell, what is the reason? Obviously you have great insight that I lack.

The reason is that women will always be held resonsible for the violent behaviour of men.Hmm

tallduckandhandsome · 28/11/2021 10:39

@nettie434

There is a huge difference between someone who was stressed and got drunk on a one off basis and someone who is regularly abusive and violent. The OP is sure that nothing like this has happened before, as is her mum.

Violet4, I am sorry that what was meant to be a lovely evening ended this way. It must have been a shock. You said you were an over thinker so I can imagine you are worried this is a sign of something else. Some posters have mentioned dementia but the number of people who develop dementia in their 60s is very small, especially if they don't have another risk factor, like a history of alcohol abuse. I think it sounds like your dad was already stressed, drank more than he was used to, and perhaps was upset by the faffing over the bill. Obviously, you and your mum should be alert to see if other similar events start happening but the odds are that it isn't the start of something serious.

Hopefully he will wake up with nothing worse than a headache and an uncomfortable memory of making a mistake last night.

Funny how he didn’t get stressed at any of the men there isn’t it?
Santaischeckinglists · 28/11/2021 10:40

If he tries to apologise op make sure you let him.. He bloody well should. And make sure your dm doesn't tell him it is fine it doesn't matter. She needs one also. Imo.

mumwon · 28/11/2021 10:41

Op (I have not read everything said sorry) is he on any new medication? Some medications can make people act differently too. & quietly ask your dm if he has been acting any differently since he had covid -it can affect the brain.
But from everything you have said (I have read that) the covid & his dm death have piled upon him emotionally & he is not use to drinking. It is one off (horrible for you all But hopefully he may realize himself & not repeat it)

ancientgran · 28/11/2021 10:41

Did he drink something he doesn't normally drink? My ex was a heavy drinker, normally a happy or sleepy drunk but if he drank whisky he turned into a nasty drunk. I'm teetotal so don't know if that's a thing.

He might not remember anything about it, my ex often hadn't got a clue about things he'd done the night before, sometimes it was fun telling him what an idiot he was but this doesn't fit that discription.

starfishmummy · 28/11/2021 10:42

@2toastornot2toast

As hes never done it before I wouldnt be jumping to any medical issue. He got drunk with friends and it went to far and he became a nasty drunk. One off, lots of apologies needed and a good telling off too.
My money is that he has done this before and it is being hidden from the OP.
RockinHorseShit · 28/11/2021 10:45

Do tell, what is the reason? Obviously you have great insight that I lack.

Clearly or you wouldn't have such glaring lack of empathy for a man who has acted very out of character, indicating that there's more going on than abusive behaviour 🙄

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