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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Argument at Christmas meal…

260 replies

Violet4 · 28/11/2021 05:45

NC for this one. DH’s parents are away this Christmas who live locally and my parents live 4 hours away. We generally have a tradition each year as everyone gets on very well where we will do a pre Xmas get together myself, DH, in laws, my parents, SIL/BIL (SIL has children we do not yet). Is generally always a nice evening out and has been going on for about 5-6 years now since married.

Anyway tonight we had this meal, went to a local french restaurant, all well - drinks flowing but not to an excessive extent that I was aware of. The bill came at the end, bill agreed to be split 4 ways. My father insisted on paying, only at this point I noticed he was quite drunk at the table. Really nice thought but we all insisted no, this went back and forth to the point where it got incredibly awkward. In the end bill agreed to be split 4 ways between couples but he became a bit grumpy, subject changed all fine. Then my mum who had forgotten her glasses, handed me her card and asked me to put it in the machine for her, I misheard what she said and replied “sorry, what did you say?” Across the table. At which point my father said “for f**cks sake Violet4 just sort it out stop making a fuss.” Myself and my mother looked across at him at the table confused, as it was so out of context and I explained to him the only issue was I hadn’t been able to hear my mother. Again all fine.

Meal ended, bit of a strange atmosphere at the end but nevermind, all said goodbye lovely meal etc. Restaurant is a short walk home so myself DH and parents began the walk.

As soon as my PIL and SIL were out of ear shot, my Dad absolutely lost it started asking “what the hell was your problem at the table I saw the way you two were looking at me” , we were absolutely bemused and explained he was making something out of nothing and just drunk, this caused him to get more and more angry resulted in him screaming in the street, swearing, called us a “pair of pr*cks” , shouting at us saying JUST WALK AWAY, but then kept trying to walk past us first. Clearly absolutely hammered drunk. Almost squaring up to us, nostrils flaring really really frightening. All got very emotional and very very nasty, DH walked ahead with myself and my Mother, he trailed behind stormed off somewhere then I heard him come in about 20 mins after us. They are staying at ours. I got home in tears, as did my mother. Now everyone asleep and I’ve been wide awake all night. Obviously they live 4 hours away so nowhere else for him to stay and really sad as we only see them once a month or so. It was honestly frightening, I’ve never seen him like that.

Now I know people say “this is out of character”, I am 34 years old and drunk or otherwise I have NEVER seen my father behave in that way, ever. Nor has my Mother and her reaction tonight you could tell she was utterly shell shocked afterwards. We have a very close relationship we speak daily on the phone and she tells me every little disagreement they’ve ever had etc. I really believe her that he’s never done this before.
I can’t piece together why this has happened tonight. He recently lost his mother (my grandmother) and he himself has been quite unwell with Covid. Maybe linked to that but I just don’t know why this behaviour manifested out of absolutely nothing.

Anyway if you have got this far, thank you. I don’t really know what I am posting for, I’ve been awake anxious about the morning for most of the night and not sure how to navigate this tommorrow. We have plans with SIL and her kids before they head off tomorrow and I don’t even think I can face being around him after last night, despite the fact he’s in the guest room as we speak…

Thank you x

OP posts:
butterpuffed · 28/11/2021 08:50

It sounds as if he's struggling with the death of his mother and covid. Drink always heightens however you're feeling. Is he someone who hides his emotions normally ?

INeedNewShoes · 28/11/2021 08:53

If this is totally out of character please get him seen by a doctor tomorrow. It merits an urgent appointment with the GP.

There are a few medical things this could be.

girlmom21 · 28/11/2021 08:55

@INeedNewShoes

If this is totally out of character please get him seen by a doctor tomorrow. It merits an urgent appointment with the GP.

There are a few medical things this could be.

If he was sober, perhaps...
StEval · 28/11/2021 08:57

Ridiculous post
It wasnt ridiculous at all!
@Mookie81

ChinstrapBobblehat · 28/11/2021 08:58

I’m so sorry your evening was ruined, OP.

Your dad needs help and support, or maybe just time. He hasn’t processed the death of his mother, and the way he’s acting out suggests someone in an extreme state of stress or potentially depression. Apologies for the armchair diagnosis - I’m not a medic, but I 100% recognise his behaviour and what he’s going through, as I’m in the midst of the exact same cycle myself.

My mum died over a year ago, and I’ve never known grief like it, or had such a dip in my mental health, although I manage to cover it up most of the time. When a parent dies it also magnifies the sound of the clock for you, and people respond differently to that; it can be hard to cope with, perhaps more so for men. And grief is not a linear thing that fades naturally over time - it comes in waves and stabs and folds in on itself, so you suddenly find you’re back in a place you thought you’d moved on from.

I caused a huge row with my sister just this week and I feel ashamed of myself, but it was directly related to my mum’s death and raw emotions suddenly surfaced totally unexpectedly. We’re very close and she knows exactly what I’m going through, even though her struggles and coping mechanisms are different to mine, so we were able to deal with it. Please be kind to your dad. He did a shitty thing, but he already knows that and will be feeling even worse today x

Bluntness100 · 28/11/2021 08:58

For goodness sake. An urgent medical appt

The man got pissed and lost his temper. It happens sometimes

So hopefully he wakes up and apologises.

HollowTalk · 28/11/2021 08:58

I feel for you and your mum. I hope your dad apologised this morning and has a good reason why he behaved like that.

Do you normally split the bill or does one person treat the others?

DixPourCent · 28/11/2021 08:58

He got drunk and acted like a massive dickhead. He's going to feel awful.

I have heard that covid can do something to people's personalities. I don't know if it's because of the virus or just the psychological trauma of having That Illness Everyone Says Will Kill Me. Also, obviously he's lost his mum as well and maybe was embarrassed people were acting as if he maybe couldn't afford to pay the bill when he offered. If he'd been the one chugging the wine as well and ordering more bottles, he probably felt as if he should pay.

I am not like you. I don't get tearful or overwrought when I have to face confrontation. I work in hospitality and aggressive drunks do occasionally misbehave where I work and I can usually handle it. BUT, being squared up to by my own dad would upset even me. I'd probably have given him an enormous bollocking by now, because that really isn't on.

EnjoyingTheSilence · 28/11/2021 08:59

I hope he is suitably ashamed and apologetic this morning.

Yes grief can make you react in funny ways but that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable

Busybee5000 · 28/11/2021 09:01

I read this as he wanted to pay , nobody would let him and everyone arguing the toss wound him up. It’s Christmas, he’s lost his Mum, we didn’t have a Christmas last year and he just wanted to treat everyone - perhaps it got too much for him. Obv totally agree re grief as well, he was in a family environment and it probably made thoughts of his mum come to the surface.

PotteringAlong · 28/11/2021 09:04

@Busybee5000 that’s how I read it too.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 28/11/2021 09:05

Now his mother has gone, is your Dad the "elder" of the family? Are there any other relatives of the previous generation left alive? He might have some old-fashioned notions about being the "head of the family" now, and that's why he wanted to pay for everyone - but was knocked back and maybe, despite all your comments, felt humiliated.
Maybe drank more to cover that - plus the fall-out from his mother no longer being there and associated grief - leading to him drinking far more than usual.

I hope when he does wake up he feels terrible and apologises profusely but it will be interesting to see what your Mum has to say about it, especially if he;s done this before with only her.

Opal8 · 28/11/2021 09:06

Oh well screaming in the street and squaring up to his dd is fine then!

Ffs....

MarleneDietrichsSmile · 28/11/2021 09:07

Yes, some people like to pay, it makes them happy. That was taken away from him, and instead there was squabbling and fuss.

He then behaved bad and irrational, and I really hope he’s apologetic today

katmarie · 28/11/2021 09:08

Hes had a hell of a year, and is facing his first Christmas without his mother, drank too much, and managed his emotions really badly, when faced with a slightly embarrassing situation. Tbh if I was facing my first Christmas without my mum, I'd probably be quite raw too.

I think gentleness and empathy is the way to go, unless he's still being an arse this morning. If he's usually a decent human being then he will most likely be mortified at upsetting his wife and daughter, but might find it hard to actually express that.

2toastornot2toast · 28/11/2021 09:08

As hes never done it before I wouldnt be jumping to any medical issue. He got drunk with friends and it went to far and he became a nasty drunk. One off, lots of apologies needed and a good telling off too.

ApolloandDaphne · 28/11/2021 09:08

I hope he is contrite this morning and is able to explain his awful behaviour last night.

Opal8 · 28/11/2021 09:10

So much minimising on this thread of his behaviour

"Squabbling"!?

Depressing

I really hope that you have a good chat with your mum op x

Fairyliz · 28/11/2021 09:10

I would be trying to have a private word with your mum to check that this is the first time something like this has happened.
I have adult children and whilst I would tell them ‘oh your dads moaning about the government again I wish he would give it a rest’ I certainly wouldn’t tell them about a noticeable change in behaviour.
I’m their mum and to a certain extent still want to protect them; especially as one of my children is a worrier.
Just check she is ok.

WeDidntMeanToGoToSea · 28/11/2021 09:11

My MIL hit one of my children three months after losing FIL. She had never done such a thing to them before. She was a typical 1970s casual hitter as a parent herself (kywim) and my theory is that the grief and trauma (he had been very unwell but the death was sudden and she was there when he died) caused old, forgotten and repressed behaviour patterns to come to the fore. I'll admit we were extremely wary of her for quite a long while after that, and the children certainly weren't alone with her for a long time, but I thought of this episode as soon as I read your post and wonder if this has been a similar sort of moment. At 67 in otherwise good health I wouldn't be jumping to dementia, although a Covid-related impact is perhaps possible. I think a lot will hinge on how he is this morning. He absolutely needs to recongise his behaviour as unacceptable and apologise profusely.

Opal8 · 28/11/2021 09:11

@Fairyliz

I would be trying to have a private word with your mum to check that this is the first time something like this has happened. I have adult children and whilst I would tell them ‘oh your dads moaning about the government again I wish he would give it a rest’ I certainly wouldn’t tell them about a noticeable change in behaviour. I’m their mum and to a certain extent still want to protect them; especially as one of my children is a worrier. Just check she is ok.
Yes 💯
MuthaHubbard · 28/11/2021 09:12

You mentioned that you have never really seen him very drunk or he's designated driver etc. Maybe when really drunk, that is how he becomes and made a decision years ago not to get like that often.
I know if I drink wine, I get really drunk v quickly and my nasty side comes out (everything else in fine with) so I don't drink wine anymore to stop that

Winter2020 · 28/11/2021 09:12

Hi OP,
All I can say is if it were my dad I would want to help him to feel better and not make him feel worse. This is in the context that his behaviour was so out of character that your immediate reaction is a medical reason etc. Your father has spent a lifetime being calm/ kind/ good humored/ the driver at functions involving alcohol - he won't need anyone else to make him feel ashamed of his behaviour - he will do that himself.

I would keep it simple for now. Tell him you are there for him and that it is OK. If he wants to talk later you could suggest counselling or a GP appointment. If he is taking meds it could be a reaction or it could simply be he was up for a good night but couldn't handle his alcohol.

Don't feel embarassed/ashamed. I would raise it with your inlaws and say "I'm sorry if my dad made you feel awkward - I'm worried about him as it was very out of character" and leave it at that.

Violet4 · 28/11/2021 09:12

@KosherDill

I'm sorry your meal was ruined.

It seems everyone is ganging up on him. He's had a rough year. And having his generous offer to pay spurned in front of everyone had to be hurtful. Why didn't you just let him make the gesture?

Especially if all that faffing and haggling followed.

I'd be apologizing to your dad if I were you.

I find this a really hurtful response. Nobody was ganging up on him, if anything we have let him pay one too many times, in fact we recently all went out for lunch and he paid. So a few of us said “oh please there’s no need, you got lunch last time”. We really just didn’t think it was fair for him to fork out over £300 for a bill for no reason, we thanked him profusely and in fact my Mum very quickly said “oh thank you that’s very kind” and was in agreement it should be split. Additionally, if he found it hurtful or not I don’t think it warranted the reaction it got. But I do agree everyone is human and I would be more than happy to bury it with an apology (he is still asleep) x
OP posts:
JohnDee007 · 28/11/2021 09:13

My first thoughts are, had covid or the covid jab affected his ability to tolerate alcohol? I’ve become dairy intolerant since my covid jabs (and until v recently ie 6months later been unable to drink much without getting v drunk)

He’s still grieving

Covid/bereavement have caused him to reassess life and he realises he doesn’t like his life or as happy in it as others assume, it’s made him realise he wants to change things that have made him react to things that always pissed him off but covered up.

Start or some dementia

Illness
Medication which has reacted with alcohol.

Just an off day.

Hope it gets sorted.

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