Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

I'm finding this triggering. My parents didn't care enough for me to stop me being bullied horrendously as a child and a teenager and now at 60 I'm still a mess with hardly any career, hardly any pension, and serious mental health issues. That's the life you're lining up for your children. Please don't do that to them.

[quote Franklyfrost]@youvegottenminuteslynn

I wouldn’t enjoy someone doing it to me. It would be frightening and unpleasant. Maybe I do lack in empathy. But I also know that making rash decisions is not what would be best for the children. I’d rather fix the broken relationship between dp and ds than destroy everyone’s lives. I’ve known poverty, what it means not to be able to eat or stay warm, and I’m not doing that to my children.[/quote]
Sorry OP, but I read that as ‘not doing that to myself’.

You talk about ‘poverty’ and being financially poor in such a disparaging way, as if that would be far worse than for your child to be in a safe environment.

There is a huge amount of denial being displayed here and judging by your previous posts that a PP posted, your DP doesn’t readily give a shit about your feelings either.

You can’t change people, no amount of you trying to force your DP to ‘understand he is wrong is going to make him suddenly wake up and realise how dysfunctional he is.

Why do you think you are going to be able to change him anyway? The sheer level of denial and lack of empathy you’ve displayed thus far doesn’t exactly qualify you for that role. Not to mention the fact that we are not meant to be therapy centres for abusive men.

You are allowing your child to be abused, and you are breaking your back to make him apologise and change. You are literally holding his hand and telling him what he needs to do and say for you to forget it again.

He is not sorry, he keeps hurting your child.

I will say it again, you are allowing your child to be abused. Do you know the implications if your son tells someone at school?

@Franklyfrost

But also, why can’t my dp see it’s wrong? That’s what I don’t understand. If he said sorry and we worked out a way not to let it happen again then it would be alright.

He doesn't think it's wrong. And you seem to think it's not that bad because it's not hitting.... he doesn't respect your opinion as a parent or partner. He doesn't stop because he doesn't care what you want.

Do you want to lose custody of all 4 of your dcs? If the answer is no then ltb because as soon as one of your dcs tells someone at school what's going on at home that's exactly what's going to happen.
You sound delusional though, you seem like the type who will continue to excuse your dhs behaviour the more it escalates.

I’m almost lost for words that you are minimising your partners behaviour , so much so that I hope this is made up.

You are not your partners therapist, it is not your job to fix them and their behaviour and quite frankly you are not qualified to do so. You especially should not be trying to fix him at the expense of your children's emotional and physical well being.
Whilst I am very much in the this is abuse camp I agree the he will murder you/your son hyperbole is a bit much. However this is so damaging to your son in a way that will affect him for the rest of his life. I lived with an abusive mother parents and have lasting emotional scars. She loathed my older sister and my sis had a breakdown a few years back cos of all the crap she had to go through and hadn't properly dealt with, hit like a ton of bricks. It's taken at least 2 years for her to get to a good place. She almost lost her marriage and her relationship with her kids. As much as the damage of physical abuse can be seen and measured far more easily, the psychological damage that is being done to your kids is longer lasting and can be far more damaging. My sister got over my dad (not her dad) throwing her down the stairs cos I cut my fringe and being 3 or 4 and blamed my bro and sis not wanting to get into trouble, physically after a few days but the psychological damage lasts till this day. Same as with my bro got over the shoves, physical punishments but my mother and dads emotional abuse lasted a lifetime. Just look at the damage its done to you, you are sacrificing your children for an abusive relationship and continuing the cycle of childhood abuse because life will be harder for you if you effectively address it. You may not be abusing your child yourself but you are complicit in it by turning a blind eye and letting your children be your dps whipping boys just because you hope you can find the right words to get your partner to not be abusive. Your "I turned out alright" isn't really measuring up though because you know your childhood was wrong as you say you protect your children from your mum but turn a blind eye when it's the man you are in a relationship with because it's uncomfortable. As a kid that's gone through both poverty and abuse, I would take the poverty anyday although I think the poverty is catastrophising and you making excuses to yourself about why you won't protect your children.

Your son at the very least needs to know that you are aware what his stepfather is doing is wrong and that you are going to take steps to make it better.

How long were you together when he moved in. Could you have a relationship where you live apart, then he need never come into contact with your DC.

I don’t think you realise your first responsibility should be towards your son and protecting him from physical abuse- sorry you don’t like that word op- but that’s what it is. You’re not going to leave so he’ll just carry on being shoved around and treated badly; it’s really sad for him

Your partner chooses to do this. You have chosen to let him stay in the house.

We teach (or should teach them)that our choice have consequences. What consequence do you think, living with a man who can't control his temper or his physicality will have on your son? What consequence do you think your allowing this (apparently occasional and accidental) abuse will have on your relationship with your son?

And finally, your son is 11 years old and a very challenging child. So challenging your DP can't handle him. This isn't likely to improve when your DS reaches puberty and his hormones kick in. You are sitting in a powder keg here.

OP if you needed help with the bills you could get a lodger, even if it meant turning the living room into a bedroom for them. Then you wouldn't need your partner around to pay half the bills.

Also, I mentioned Women's Aid before, you don't need to be at the point of leaving to get in touch with them. Their organization is based on supporting you in your choices, there's no obligation to leave him ever. I imagine they hope that as you learn more about abuse then you'll decide to leave, but there's no pressure at all.

I think you need support because you seem to be emotionally shut down. This makes sense because it would enable you to tolerate this situation.

Your children don't know its not ok to resort to violence. They know words are cheap and hollow on that topic because its been said its not ok, and everytime it happens we all go through the charade of agreeing it shouldn't, even while we all know it will again.

@Franklyfrost

I don’t think that using the word abuse is appropriate. It exaggerates what is happening and is disrespectful to those who have suffered actual abuse. To put this in perspective the met says that,

‘Examples of physical abuse are:
hitting, slapping, shaking or throwing
burning or scalding
drowning, suffocating or choking
pushing or kicking
inappropriate restraint or false imprisonment
using physical force to discipline
misusing medication
fabricating or inducing an illness or ill health

Signs and symptoms of physical abuse in children can include:
unexplained recurrent injuries, marks or burns
covering injuries with clothing even in hot weather
fear of physical contact and shrinking back if touched’

What we are discussing here is certainly not in that league.

If you want to be pedantic about words, "examples of" and "symptoms can include" doesn't mean this is a complete and exhaustive list. It is an incomplete list of some of the things that can happen.

People also respond differently. If someone touches me, eg puts a hand on my arm in conversation, I freeze, I don't outwardly flinch. Neither can the other person see that I'm panicking, because I'll continue to smile and nod at their chatter.

OP you are not a terrible person. My advice to you would be to see if you could get support from your local women's aid. They could give you professional advice and would totally understand the pressures you are facing as a family. There is help out there for you to be able to see which decisions you should make for the best outcome for you all.

If you refuse to parent your children and protect them, I hope they report this at school.

This will then be a safeguarding issue and be taken out of your hands.

The more I think about this the more I don't like the wording "lifted him up and he accidentally banged his head and teeth". It sounds like "grabbed his arms from behind/spun him round and shoved him with enough force that his feet left the ground and slammed him face first into a cupboard/doorframe" would be a more accurate description. How the hell does one "bang teeth" otherwise?

My father was similar to your partner. Physical "discipline" that sometimes went too far, resulting in a banged head, bruised elbow, etc. No serious physical injuries, but I was always scared that the next time I might get badly hurt. The effects on my mental health have lasted well into adulthood, and will probably last a lifetime. IT IS ABUSE.

My mother never left him. Her marriage was more important than my safety. I don't speak to either of them. Don't expect to ever have a good relationship with your children if you're not going to keep them safe.

It’s not as simple as pack your bags and leave.
Yes it is. Either leave, or phone social services and tell them that you can't keep your children safe. Your child doesn't deserve to be abused.

[quote Franklyfrost]@DeadoftheMoon
*
Abuse is what it is. You are letting a man abuse your children.
Your fanny matters more to you than they do. Or is it not even sex? Just the appearance of having a man in your life. *

You troll people accusing them of being abusive. Very meta.[/quote]
Don't be ridiculous. You know what you are doing. If this is true at all, what you are doing is very wrong.

Well, the thing is, it is acceptable, isn’t it? Because he’s been doing it every 4 months or so for a long time and you’ve stayed with him.

The physical aggression is bad enough, but throw in the SEN and fact that DS isn’t his, it’s even worse.

You’ve done nothing but make excuses for your partner and for why you’re minimising it, so we can’t help you.

Your obsession with the “why” in this is most bizarre. It doesn’t matter “why” your OP is doing this. The fact is - he is doing it and clearly is not in control of his actions or temper. The fact is - it’s likely to escalate. The fact is - you really don’t seem to be listening to the majority of voices on this thread.

I’d be asking yourself why that is. You can only know your own “whys”

In the very unlikely scenario that I picked a child up with sufficient force to bang their head and teeth on something, the first thing I would do would be drop to my knees and hug them. Then I'd check they were ok whilst apologising and and cuddling them. I would be mortified that I had hurt them, even if it was only momentarily and accidentally. They would be in no doubt how very sorry I was.

You son with learning difficulties knows it isn't ok for a grown man to hurt a 5 year old. But somehow you think it's ok because there must be a reason.

Absolutely pathetic. Well, next time it happens (and there will be a next time) don’t say it’s not acceptable. It is acceptable, for a price, so tell your son that instead. Not ‘he can’t hurt you’ but ‘he can hurt you because he pays fie xyz and buys me abc.’

Try and seek some professional assistance and help, because your attitude to abuse (your mother slapping your baby hard and repeatedly, your husband hurting your eldest child) is utterly warped.

Also, let go of the idea your husband ‘doesn’t understand.’ He’s got the idea it’s not okay for your son to accidentally hurt his son, so believe me he knows it’s not right for him to deliberately hurt your son.

He just wants to do it anyway.

The should let you EXDH have full custody of your DC. You seem determined that you won't keep them safe. I wonder where your line is OP? A broken arm? A black eye? I suspect you will only take action when an agency gets involved and then you will say you didn't know. What a shame for your DC. The other two will likely suffer all kinds of survivors guilt when they are older too, so don't think at least they will be ok. They probably won't. It's not too late, you could still do the right thing by leaving your DP or Letting them live somewhere safe. Your DC are still young enough that they could have a happy, safe future.