Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

Does your sons father think it's ok that your partner does this to his son ? Does it sit comfortably with him that he gets "moved " and bangs his head and his teeth ?

And that folks is the crux of the issue. OP is more interested in not losing her comfortable lifestyle. Nice.

I’ve known poverty, what it means not to be able to eat or stay warm, and I’m not doing that to my children.

On UC you would be able to eat and stay warm. And you could engage with local services like food banks if required.

You speak as if none of us have known difficult times too. I'm a foster kid. Do you think that was an easy time? No. Lots of women on this thread have explained they left with no money and had to start again to keep their kids safe.

Your child's mental health is taking an absolute battering living with someone who bullies him, even if he had never laid a finger on him. The fact he has regularly shoved / dragged / pushed etc him makes it even worse.

Many of us have known poverty. Have known abuse. Have known tragedy. It doesn't make it any more ok to make your child live with their bully.

Do you also think your mother and father have a lack of empathy too?.

Why do you think your parents acted towards you as they did in your childhood?. They did that to you because they could and they felt entitled to do so. I would also think that abuse was a primary feature of their own childhoods too but they've never accepted any responsibility for their own actions. And this man now is the same as your parents were and still remain.

I’d rather fix the broken relationship between dp and ds than destroy everyone’s lives.

That's not an option though, because your 'd'p doesn't want to. You've repeatedly told him to stop this behaviour and he's shouted at you, said he doesn't want to and continued to do it.

So that option is off the table.

[quote Franklyfrost]@youvegottenminuteslynn

I wouldn’t enjoy someone doing it to me. It would be frightening and unpleasant. Maybe I do lack in empathy. But I also know that making rash decisions is not what would be best for the children. I’d rather fix the broken relationship between dp and ds than destroy everyone’s lives. I’ve known poverty, what it means not to be able to eat or stay warm, and I’m not doing that to my children.[/quote]
Rash might be if you left the first time he did this. When he's done it goodness knows how ma h times there is nothing rash in it.

Maybe this thread will give you the courage to leave and protect your children.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I’d rather fix the broken relationship between dp and ds than destroy everyone’s lives.

That's not an option though, because your 'd'p doesn't want to. You've repeatedly told him to stop this behaviour and he's shouted at you, said he doesn't want to and continued to do it.

So that option is off the table.

Unfortunately I agree with this.

Abuse escalates. That's just a fact. It won't get better. It will get worse.

Let's hope the children tell a teacher.

"I’d rather fix the broken relationship between dp and ds"

What makes you at all think you can at all fix this?. What can you do realistically here?. You are not his therapist and cannot act as one. You are also not a rehab center for such a badly raised man. Besides which, what is your partner here doing to improve relations between he and your eldest child, nothing.

And he is doing nothing because he does not want to change anything. He enjoys the power and control he has over these children and in turn you.

As a mother who was with an abusive partner, who abused my DC from a previous relationship, I implore you to wake the fuck up.

I had 2 DC from previous relationship. ExP was a narcissistic, abusive, self righteous twat. He walked into my home, red flags everywhere, and I didn't see them. He lovebombed me and I fell hook line and sinker. He abused my DS. He shouted at him, he belittled him, he smacked him. I let it go on for far too long.

This started when my DS was almost 3. It took me 5 years to end that relationship. One day a switch flicked and I knew I wasn't protecting my children the way that I should. My son has developed anxiety and still, even 3 years later now he is almost 11, has issues and brings up ExP. He remembers everything. He was traumatised and it was my fault and I will take that to my grave.

I grew up in an abusive household as a child. My mum didn't stop my dad from hurting me. She stayed with him. I still hold a lot of resentment and have issues surrounding this even into my 30s. There was never any lasting physical damage, it's all mental. Hopefully now I have broken that cycle of abuse and my children will see, in time, how to parent successfully and will realise in time that I did protect them in the end.

OP, you cannot make someone feel sorry for their actions. Either they do or they do not. You cannot tell them how to apologise for something if they are not sorry. Your DP is not sorry therefore he won't apologise genuinely. He doesn't like your DC. There is no other way to put it. He will always treat your DC differently and unfairly. He will most likely favour the DC that are biologically his. This will have a huge impact on your older DC.

OP, you cannot see that this is abuse because its all you've ever known. You were abused as a child by your parents and have therefore been trained to see that this is normal behaviour. It will take you time to come to the realisation that your current situation is not OK.

Your DC need to be protected by the one person they trust. You. You are their mother. But slowly they will learn not to trust you because you do nothing to stop your partner hurting your DC. You are putting financial stability above the physical and emotional needs of your children. I hope you read this and take some time to really understand the implications of this for your children.

You cannot fix this. It is not about the relationship or dynamics between your dad and dp ( a CHILD£ You do have an abusive partner (ADULT).

Your son will not remember any of the 'nice' or good this man might bring. But he will remember the violence and 'accidental' hitting on the head.

And he will remember a mum who let this happen time and time again, because her abusive partner gave a proper apology and pinkie promises it won't happen again. Until the next time.

Does your partner pay for everything? Do you have any income? What work did you do before having your DC?

[quote Franklyfrost]@youvegottenminuteslynn

I wouldn’t enjoy someone doing it to me. It would be frightening and unpleasant. Maybe I do lack in empathy. But I also know that making rash decisions is not what would be best for the children. I’d rather fix the broken relationship between dp and ds than destroy everyone’s lives. I’ve known poverty, what it means not to be able to eat or stay warm, and I’m not doing that to my children.[/quote]
It isn't possible to fix a broken relationship with an abuser. It's not your issue to fix. It's his. He doesn't want to fix it and you can't make him.

You don't know your children will be cold or hungry if you leave. You do know they'll suffer abuse if you stay.

Get help to look into the financial side of things. Ask every organization you can think of for advice and assistance. There is help out there.

Turn To Us
Citizens Advice Bureau
Women's Aid
Job Centre
College or University
Government Hardship Grants
Sure Start

That's just what I can think of in 5min. Don't think you can't leave. Find out how you can make that work out ok.

[quote Franklyfrost]@youvegottenminuteslynn

I wouldn’t enjoy someone doing it to me. It would be frightening and unpleasant. Maybe I do lack in empathy. But I also know that making rash decisions is not what would be best for the children. I’d rather fix the broken relationship between dp and ds than destroy everyone’s lives. I’ve known poverty, what it means not to be able to eat or stay warm, and I’m not doing that to my children.[/quote]
Oh come off it OP, you already said you've got a (dwindling) inheritance, so you're not exactly skint are you. And if your DP leaves then you'll be inside your nice comfortable house. Unlike those of us who's only option was to leave ourselves with our DC and not a penny to our name. But yeah, you do you. After reading that. I'm out. Fingers crossed your DS tells a teacher and the shit hits the fan. Maybe that's the wake up call you need.

Yes lol, the Crucible is right!
Such is the nature of women’s forums like this once the ball is rolling unfortunately.
I don’t think your going to get much constructive advice or even constructive criticism at this point. I’d honestly just stop checking the replies unless you enjoy being the punching bag of morally superior beings.

Do you understand OP that emotional and psychological abuse is still abuse?

@TarasCrazyTiara

Yes lol, the Crucible is right! Such is the nature of women’s forums like this once the ball is rolling unfortunately. I don’t think your going to get much constructive advice or even constructive criticism at this point. I’d honestly just stop checking the replies unless you enjoy being the punching bag of morally superior beings.

Yeah, bloody women hating on men who bully children with SEN. Burn the witches, eh?

I am broke and I am alone with four dependents

We have a beautiful life and you my friend are fucking deluded

Op you quoted what abuse is which mentions pushing and you've said he shoves your DC, why are you defending an abuser. Also he hasn't "made a mistake" when he has done it multiple times to two children.

You are failing to protect your children and it makes me so sad for your older two they will grow up knowing their step dad hurts them and their mum allows it. When they are adults and refuse to have anything to do with you maybe then you will regret it

I feel like if I only could get though to him he could understand, it’s so simple: look after children, don’t cause them distress.

This is how everyone feels about their abuser. There is no way of making him understand. The truth is either he already understands, but he doesn't care, or he's incapable of understanding.

It's said that abusers never change, is that true? Why would it be true?

Yes it's true. Because it gets them what they want, which is their own way all the time. Because they think they have a right to be in control, so they don't think their controlling behaviour is wrong, they think it's fine. From that perspective, it's other people fault the abuser abuses. Because in their mind, they're not at fault, the other person is at fault for not obeying. "I only do it because xyz". There's always a "reason" (excuse) for their awful behaviour that justifies it to themselves.

Don’t all people change?

No. Some people never change. Some people change for the worse.

Also, I don’t think my dp is an abuser, I think he’s acting badly and in denial about his behaviour.

That is pretty much the definition of an abuser. None of them think their behaviour is out of order. They all think it's justified.

Someone said dp get entitled to hurt ds and there is something in that. He does believe he can and should do what he wants. But he’s also thoughtful and intelligent. He just doesn’t seem able to reflect on his behaviour or even acknowledge he has emotions, responsibilities etc

What makes you think this person has any capacity for change. You're talking about changing his fundamental belief that he's entitled to do whatever he wants, including hurting another person physically or mentally to get his own way. Fundamental beliefs make us what we are. What special powers do you think you have that enables you to change who another person is? People who have decided for themselves to seek therapy for whatever reason struggle with accepting their fundamental beliefs might be wrong and changing those beliefs to enable themselves to act differently. That's people who want to change so badly they've sought help to do so. Your partner doesn't want to change at all, so what makes you think he will?

I just can’t seem to work out why people behave the way they do, what behaviour is acceptable etc.

If you get involved with Women's Aid they can teach you this.

You've taken a lot of negative comments here and that must be hard. But, you posted because you know this is wrong and deep down, I think you know it's abuse. I also think you posted because you do care and you want to change it, so some of the earlier comments will have hurt.

Firstly, you need to know that your partner's behaviour is NOT normal. Also, I assume he doesn't behave like this towards other people, so he is able to control his behaviour, but he is choosing not to. Secondly, your son thinks this IS normal and that is harmful.

You need to get help for you and your family to fix this. Unless your partner can see that he is wrong, I don't think you can change how he behaves.

You can also think about talking to the NSPCC helpline for some independent advice. Please do not allow this to continue.

@Franklyfrost

It’s certainly wrong to hurt a child or be aggressive toward them but I don’t think it’s classified as abuse by the law. My children all know it’s not okay for any adult to be violent toward them and I’ve discussed what happened with the older two kids. It does feel awful. Why can’t dp just not touch them? Or at least acknowledge he was wrong?

He is manhandling your children. Abuse. He is giving you the silent treatment. Abuse.

You're letting your older kids feel unsafe in their own home.