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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you talk to other women?

257 replies

littlepieces · 21/11/2021 03:43

I've always found making friendships, or even just conversation, with women really difficult, I feel like there's something I'm just not getting. I much prefer the company of men and find them much easier to talk to, easier to maintain relationships with, and much easier to sort of read I suppose. I also never really know what to say to women? With men I just have a laugh, but women don't really communicate like that. What do you talk about with other women? Anyone else similar? Or have any advice?

Eg. I went for a try out at a sports club recently. Another woman around my age was also there for the first time, so I said hi it's my first time here too, haven't played for a while not sure what to expect etc. She just looked at me like I'd spoken in a foreign language, and said nothing back. I tried again, but just got a brief laugh humouring me. And then later we had to pair up for a warm up and I turned to her to ask if she wanted to pair up and she turned immediately away and asked someone else. I don't look unusual or anything so have absolutely no idea what that was all about, but would say that's pretty typical of my social failings!

OP posts:
GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou · 23/11/2021 23:50

Oh, bum. I actually just got Rosemary mixed up with Lady Thyme.

In my defense, I am very tired.

CheeseMmmm · 23/11/2021 23:53

@EightWheelGirl

Funny how a 500,000 respondent survey or another repeated over six decades means nothing when you don’t like the results. I never see this level of rigorous analysis of studies when the topic is male violence, for instance, or one of the other mumsnet favourites.
It's a one question poll on a website!

You're making yourself look very silly.

And stop telling women on the thread to go off search, check methodology etc etc!

You are posting nonsense which you obviously didn't look at properly yourself.

And then when it's pointed out it's not anything that you claimed it was. Telling others to spend their time finding proper studies to prove you wrong!

I mean for a start if it's annual why not even the most recent one rather than years ago?

And the thread ISN'T EVEN ABOUT WORK! It's about individuals making friends.

Well done on compressively derailing the thread though.

ChargingBuck · 23/11/2021 23:54

OMG Lady Thyme! Star

Tired ... whadd'ya want - carris seed?

ChargingBuck · 23/11/2021 23:55

I've found the derail highly entertaining @CheeseMmmm

Possibly for less than noble reasons, but oh my it's been amusing.

EightWheelGirl · 23/11/2021 23:57

Even if we say its hugely anecdotal it still suggests that women prefer male bosses. And funnily enough the mumsnet thread I took the first studies from is full of posters saying they the meanest bosses they had were female. Kicking away the ladder etc.

ChargingBuck · 23/11/2021 23:57

I'd also expect a self-professed engineer to understand how statistics & peer-reviewed research work, but hey ho. Maybe my arse is inadequate & I'm all messed up about it Wink

ChargingBuck · 24/11/2021 00:00

funnily enough the mumsnet thread I took the first studies from
Funnily enough, THEY WERE NOT STUDIES.

You still haven't been able to do so much as google the difference between "survey" & "study", have you?

Darkpheonix · 24/11/2021 00:01

@EightWheelGirl

No. Its really not.

As I said, it's clearly not an area you have experience or knowledge in. Which is fine. But its odd to try and pretend you do.

With all due respect I can't take this intellectual pomposity seriously from somebody who can't even spell the word 'phoenix'.

So so strange. Is your MN name really a mark of your Intelligence? Really?

Again, you don't really have a clue what you are talking about or how to look, at information to see what's its worth.

Really odd that you seem to believe this shit, but have a problem with Data regarding male violence? Why did your brain go there?

What issue do you have with data collected regarding male violence?

EightWheelGirl · 24/11/2021 00:05

I'd also expect a self-professed engineer to understand how statistics & peer-reviewed research work, but hey ho

Who is this engineer you speak of?

So so strange. Is your MN name really a mark of your Intelligence? Really?

No. I'm a truck driver yet apparently have a better grasp of the English language than you do.

Darkpheonix · 24/11/2021 00:09

@EightWheelGirl

I'd also expect a self-professed engineer to understand how statistics & peer-reviewed research work, but hey ho

Who is this engineer you speak of?

So so strange. Is your MN name really a mark of your Intelligence? Really?

No. I'm a truck driver yet apparently have a better grasp of the English language than you do.

And? What relevance does that have?
CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 00:09

@EightWheelGirl

Even if we say its hugely anecdotal it still suggests that women prefer male bosses. And funnily enough the mumsnet thread I took the first studies from is full of posters saying they the meanest bosses they had were female. Kicking away the ladder etc.
This thread is about individuals making friends.

It's nothing to do with other threads.

Did you post on the wrong thread initially? That would say least explain your earlier posts, given they had zero to do with this one.

You don't have to keep going btw once error realised usual thing to do is post. Oops wrong thread ignore that. Or similar.

CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 00:15

@EightWheelGirl

I'd also expect a self-professed engineer to understand how statistics & peer-reviewed research work, but hey ho

Who is this engineer you speak of?

So so strange. Is your MN name really a mark of your Intelligence? Really?

No. I'm a truck driver yet apparently have a better grasp of the English language than you do.

There was another poster with a similar posting style and views who posted very poor 'evidence' as well.

They were a truck / lorry driver I think.

You've changed your name? If there's two people as similar as that, that's a massive coincidence. You sound like you might get on really well. I can let you know the user name and then you could get in touch!

Not sure if that poster is overweight or dislikes those they think are more attractive than they are. Arse size etc. So can't guarantee you will like each other though.

CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 00:17

I suspect there's a lot of projecting going on here, and lack of ability to understand that not all people think and behave the same way you do.

If women didn't like you and men didn't like you. I think the obvious conclusion is... That it's a you problem rather than everyone else.

CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 00:19

@EightWheelGirl

I'd also expect a self-professed engineer to understand how statistics & peer-reviewed research work, but hey ho

Who is this engineer you speak of?

So so strange. Is your MN name really a mark of your Intelligence? Really?

No. I'm a truck driver yet apparently have a better grasp of the English language than you do.

Didn't seem to be able to grasp that daily mail article or the (very straightforward) links you posted though did you.
CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 00:31

So back to the topic.

I have always had male and female friends.

I did v male dominated a levels and went to a uni for science and technology.

My school was all girls.

In both environments I found that I got on with some and didn't others. Because shocker! Girls and boys and women and men are individuals with a variety of interests, senses of humour. Also how near or far they are from the stereotypes for their sexes. I mean no one conforms to them all. Certainly though some men live for football some have no interest and loads in the middle. Same as with women and handbags.

And handbags and football as an interest don't mean automatically that those people aren't interesting, funny, and all the things they know about are also full on stereotypical etc.

In short. People can be lovely or horrible. They may be someone whose company you enjoy or not. Judging totally by how they look/ dress/ one or two interests is not enough to know who they are when get to know.

Those who rely on general stereotypes or make decisions based on their own internal stereotypes they believe. Just end up making incorrect assumptions, assuming incorrect reasons for behaviour etc. A very shallow view that you tend to see most in primary school age children.

ChargingBuck · 24/11/2021 00:33

There was another poster with a similar posting style and views who posted very poor 'evidence' as well.

They were a truck / lorry driver I think.

@CheeseMmmm, I may be conflating PP's here, but was convinced that Eight claimed to "work in engineering" upthread.

EightWheelGirl · 24/11/2021 00:34

Funnily enough, THEY WERE NOT STUDIES

Except the ones I posted by the female Harvard researcher which you conveniently ignored. Wink

Harvard University researcher Joyce Benenson, one of the study’s authors, said that women’s instinctive distrust of females in power may make it more difficult for them to scale the career ladder.

She said: ‘Females are less likely than males to co-operate across ranks with same-sex individuals.

‘This means that a highly talented newcomer female in any organisation does not receive the support that her male counterpart does from higher-ranked individuals who can help them climb the hierarchy.’

A study found two women are less likely to co-operate than two men when one is more powerful than the other.

Similarly, two females of different rank are less likely to work together than a man and a woman.

The finding contradicts the widely held belief that women’s nurturing nature makes it natural for them to help each other out, while men are too competitive to have time for each other.

Researchers said that men may be wired to put their differences aside in order to form alliances. Women, however, are most comfortable with people who are on the same level as them.

Richard Wrangham, of the University of Quebec at Montreal, said: ‘The question we wanted to examine was: Do men or women co-operate better with members of their own sex?

‘The conventional wisdom is that women co-operate more easily but when you look at how armies or sports teams function, there is evidence that men are better at co-operating in some ways.’

To look at whether there sexes differ in how they co-operate, the scientists looked at research collaborations in 50 university psychology departments.

This showed that all female pairings of junior and senior researchers were much less common than collaborations between two men at different stages in their career.

However, women of the same rank didn’t seem to have difficulty in working together and mixed-sex collaborations were also common.

In other words, the problem arises in situations in which one female is more powerful than the other.

Writing in the journal Current Biology, the researchers said the lack of trust may come from both directions.

The findings are consistent with results of other studies suggesting females of lower status can be uncomfortable co-operating with their superiors.

EightWheelGirl · 24/11/2021 00:34

But of course you guys are better informed than the researchers at Harvard University.

CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 00:46

You really really don't want to get off this irrelevant topic do you!

Oh look you've googled and got more things about what you are intent on being the thing to discuss (nothing to do with the OP).

Well done!!! Probably can find something (anything!) to support your seemingly all consuming interest in women and work. Well one very specific thing about women and work.

I expect you got those so far because of your intelligence level, excellent grasp of English, and fanstic arse.

Putting 'study' in the Google search box as well as something to do with women, work, trouble working together. Is a very very smart move.

I bet you haven't read those links either properly have you.

CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 00:51

@ChargingBuck

There was another poster with a similar posting style and views who posted very poor 'evidence' as well.

They were a truck / lorry driver I think.

@CheeseMmmm, I may be conflating PP's here, but was convinced that Eight claimed to "work in engineering" upthread.

No idea can't remember seeing that.

Eight I asked if you had namechanged because if not I have seen another poster you might well get on with. You said neither women or men like you. I think it's worth at least a DM.

Might be one woman you hit it off with!

I'm trying to help:)

ChargingBuck · 24/11/2021 01:00

Eight, if you delved a little deeper into the recesses of google, you will find that many of Beneson's peers have reservations about her findings, die to the false equivalences in perceptions of males & females in power.

For example - a dynamic man is perceived as assertive.
A dynamic woman is perceived as aggressive.

Until that disparity is addressed, or some technique to counter unconscious bias & internalised misogyny is found, those peer reservations will continue.

Beneson could also be said to have an axe to grind - quite a one-trick pony ...

ChargingBuck · 24/11/2021 01:01

She's got a nice arse though. Does that help?

Kanaloa · 24/11/2021 01:10

Do you think perhaps the people so eager to give men a hand up in the workplace over women are very like the ones on this thread calling women fat and saying they’re bitchy/shallow? It’s an issue of internalised misogyny whereby men and women showing the same behaviours are perceived very differently.

CheeseMmmm · 24/11/2021 01:14

@ChargingBuck

She's got a nice arse though. Does that help?
Has she?

Well obviously she must be hated by other women. Is that the reason for this indication of bias?

Kanaloa · 24/11/2021 01:14

This means that a highly talented newcomer female in any organisation does not receive the support that her male counterpart does from higher-ranked individuals who can help them climb the hierarchy.’

Also you realise this says ‘individuals’ and not ‘women.’ So higher ranked male colleagues don’t seem to be putting down an arm to help women climb up either. Which might also be an issue. Although it’s lovely to see that now woman’s difficulties in the workplace are not the fault of the patriarchy or societal pressure around childcare and balance - no, the problem is other women.

And also utterly irrelevant to the op. Unless she failed to mention that it was her first day working with the lady at the club.

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