How do you talk to other women?

[littlepieces]

I've always found making friendships, or even just conversation, with women really difficult, I feel like there's something I'm just not getting. I much prefer the company of men and find them much easier to talk to, easier to maintain relationships with, and much easier to sort of read I suppose. I also never really know what to say to women? With men I just have a laugh, but women don't really communicate like that. What do you talk about with other women? Anyone else similar? Or have any advice?

Eg. I went for a try out at a sports club recently. Another woman around my age was also there for the first time, so I said hi it's my first time here too, haven't played for a while not sure what to expect etc. She just looked at me like I'd spoken in a foreign language, and said nothing back. I tried again, but just got a brief laugh humouring me. And then later we had to pair up for a warm up and I turned to her to ask if she wanted to pair up and she turned immediately away and asked someone else. I don't look unusual or anything so have absolutely no idea what that was all about, but would say that's pretty typical of my social failings!

If she had stood in a corner quietly looking approachable and friendly but nervous.

Not saying that's a thing to do! But seeing as you said that. Someone in the thing might well have come up and said hello, for sure.

"actual studies" = confirmation bias & more bullshit.

Except I linked the ‘actual studies’ above. Apology accepted in advance.

If she had stood in a corner quietly looking approachable and friendly but nervous.

As women are supposed to, right?

Until I see evidence/studies to the contrary I’m going to believe the ones above.

Of course you are. Trawling the daily mail for vapid opinions is bound to give you a rich insight into a diverse, knowledgeable & unbigoted set of unbiased insight ...

@littlepieces

Also didn't just approach the woman at the sports club out of the blue either, she was signing the new starter forms at the same time as me at the reception, so I thought I'd make conversation. In future I will just not say a word to anyone unless spoken to I guess?

It doesn't need to be so black and white. Lots of people have posted with advice you've ignored, saying talk once then leave it to see if the other person responds. That's the middle ground, the grey area, not the black and white of either trying trying trying or never speaking at all.

You sound like you were trying too hard. People shy away from needy people because they tend to be emotional drains, sucking the life out of a person. Needy is how you come across if you keep talking to someone who's made it clear they're not interested in chatting.

You tried to start a conversation, ok. For whatever reason the other person didn't respond. You need to recognise that is a response. It's them telling you they don't want to talk. When you ignored it and tried to start a conversation again, you became annoying because you accidentally trampled on her boundaries. If someone doesn't want to talk you should respect that. The problem was, you didn't recognise soon enough that she didn't want to talk.

This woman literally blanked you when you tried to start a conversation, asking her to partner up with you after that was weird. Most people wouldn't have wanted to partner with her after she'd blanked them, they would have thought she was rude and asked someone else.

It's actually horrific that a PP thinks that other women are only interested in clothes, make up and soap operas.

I prefer psychology, cats and social history.

Perhaps you have a hard time with other women because you're kind of a dick...?

I have to say I having had a job that involves delving pretty deep with men and women for years… I find feck all difference in talking or being friends with either. I guess with close women friends there would be some experiences I wouldn’t share with close male friends..but it’s marginal.

Men and women are far more similar than different. There’s some difference in interests (porn vs diet culture at the base end for example), plus styles of communication and thinking styles, but superficiality and indeed arseholedom are evenly distributed I’d say - as are brilliance and humour.

I think if you have trouble getting on with either sex in general, it’s a bit the story of a guy who turns up at a new village, and asks the first person he meets ‘what are the people here like?’, ‘well what were the people at your last place like?’ says the villager, ‘arseholes’ says the new guy. ‘We’ll, you’ll find them pretty much the same here’ says the villager. Then a second new guy turns up, and asks the villager the same question, the villager also asks him what the people in his last place were like, ‘oh pretty nice’ the guy says, ‘well you’ll find them much the same here’ the villager says.

IE if you can’t get on with entire groups of people, it’s on you. It’s not to say there mightn’t be reasons - if your mum was hostile when you were a kid, and no other female role models were around, you may be carrying a fear of rejection from women that runs deep. But the issue is coming from you. I don’t think it’s something that necessarily needs fixing. Especially if you prefer to keep relationships pretty light and interest based, you may well find you gravitate towards one sex because interests can be gender based especially at the more basic end. If you want to fix it, then find women who share your interests - it takes time to make friends and sharing interests gives you that time. And/or - if you do think the problem runs deep - you might want to think about working with a therapist. As for the woman at the gym - I’m guessing she just wasn’t in the mood for interaction, or you didn’t appeal to her for some superficial reason - that’s about her not you. Your issue with women in general is about you not them - but that doesn’t necessarily mean it needs to be fixed - you are fine as you are I am sure.

@EightWheelGirl

If she had stood in a corner quietly looking approachable and friendly but nervous.

As women are supposed to, right?

Eh?

You were the one who said that!

Anyway plenty of people are shy etc. Men as well as women. That's not a surprise surely?

And at least IF another woman decided to come and say hello, at least she would have definitely been happy to talk!

The idea that women should be 'welcoming' is WAY more sexist than saying well if, as you said, she stood in the corner quietly then someone might well have come and said hello!

@EightWheelGirl

Despite all the posters calling ‘misogyneh’, there is plenty of evidence that supports what OP and others describe.

Women prefer to work for men than other females.

Women collaborate better with men, and two men collaborate even better.

Women are less likely to help another woman at work if she is senior to them.

The actual studies don’t really support the sisterhood ideal.

You could find just as much ‘evidence’ saying the opposite, something in between, backwards, sideways and every which way.

You know this, surely.

At least I hope you do, or you are in dire need of a crash course in critical thought..

You could find just as much ‘evidence’ saying the opposite, something in between, backwards, sideways and every which way.

Well, then please be my guest...

I think you need to find your kind of woman. Having spent most of my life surrounded by men (male uni course, career which involves being away from home, surrounded by men, in difficult circumstances) I initially found some women an enigma, and tend (still) to be more comfortable around men.

After analysing it I realised that I did know how to communicate with some women, and they were usually scientific or legal, logical types like me, with a dark sense of humour, and often working in similar environments to me. My initial mistake was perhaps trying to force a bond with women who had very very different personalities from me, and with whom I had nothing in common.

Try reading 'Watching the English' for a social anthropologist's investigation into female bonding, I found it gave me some useful tools so I didn't feel so awkward when thrown into more traditional female groups.

@EightWheelGirl

You could find just as much ‘evidence’ saying the opposite, something in between, backwards, sideways and every which way.

Well, then please be my guest...

I assumed you would have looked into this area and would have at least some info? Given your interest!

Issues with men in workplace, I'd think looking into areas like aggression, sexism, sexual harrassment and assault might be areas where women aren't worse than men. Just a few ideas. Not looked myself not that interested.

It's not just that daily mail link is it? I'm sure you know studies are very prone to bias, researchers just looking to prove hypothesis often based in stereotypes in the first place. Iffy methodology. And whatever some studies say there will be something with the opposite out there somewhere!

Example of bias was that one that said women are naturally drawn to the colour pink because of gathering berries for large amounts of time we've been on the planet 😂😂😂

[quote EightWheelGirl]Women dislike having a female boss at work even more than men do, a new study has revealed.

Nearly 40 per cent of female workers in America would rather be led by a man, a Gallup survey found.

In contrast, just 26 per cent of men would prefer a male boss.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2797279/women-dislike-having-female-boss-workplace-men-study-finds.html

CBS Local — A survey by MSN found that both men and women prefer to work with men rather than women in the workplace. The survey is believed to be as accurate as a scientific poll. Nearly 500,000 people supplied answers.

MSN found that 20 percent of men and 21 percent of women preferred to work with men, compared to just 6 percent of each men and women preferring to work with women.

atlassearchllc.com/men-and-women-both-prefer-to-work-with-men-study-finds/

A study found two women are less likely to cooperate than two men when one is more powerful than the other.

Similarly, two females of different rank are less likely to work together than a man and a woman.

The finding contradicts the widely held belief that women’s nurturing nature makes it natural for them to help each other out, while men are too competitive to have time for each other.

Harvard University researcher Joyce Benenson, one of the study’s authors, said that women’s instinctive distrust of females in power may make it more difficult for them to scale the career ladder.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2572235/Women-HATE-office-Females-operate-better-male-bosses-study-finds.html[/quote]
Surely the big takeaway from both of the first two surveys you posted is that most people don't care what sex their boss or their co-workers are?

I find it ironic that OP, as a woman, is posting on a site predominantly consisting of women (which presumably as a forum she enjoys), that she can’t talk to women.

You aren’t some strange unicorn of a woman, born with another level of social skill and personality that no other woman possesses or can understand.

I assumed you would have looked into this area and would have at least some info? Given your interest!

Issues with men in workplace, I'd think looking into areas like aggression, sexism, sexual harrassment and assault might be areas where women aren't worse than men. Just a few ideas. Not looked myself not that interested.

It's not just that daily mail link is it? I'm sure you know studies are very prone to bias, researchers just looking to prove hypothesis often based in stereotypes in the first place. Iffy methodology. And whatever some studies say there will be something with the opposite out there somewhere!

I’ve already provided my info. I’m saying that if the pp believes it to be so easy to find contradicting sources then she should put her money where her mouth is.

And no it’s not just the Daily Mail link. Did you like actually read the thread? One study had 500,000 respondents.

Maybe read the actual thread I stole the links from too. Plenty of women recounting their experience with female bullies. And of course the same old ones on damage control.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3080265-Women-prefer-working-for-male-bosses

And you think that men don't cause any issues in workplace?

Come off it.

Women and men are people. Some nice some not. Everyone is different.

The popular idea that women are competitive bitchy and hateful towards other women generally is as useful during our lives as the many many equally extreme and peculiar stereotypes about men.

You make friends at an individual level. So your workplace studies are beside the point.

I'm know there are other threads with conversations saying women are awful/ no they aren't.

Saying well look studies show women just don't get on aren't going to help OP are they! Unless the point is. Don't even bother with female friends!

You aren’t some strange unicorn of a woman, born with another level of social skill and personality that no other woman possesses or can understand.

Actually, for people with neuro-diversity trying to interact with neuro-typical people, it can be a bit like that. ND can cause communication problems like not being able to read social cues, body language or facial expressions etc as well as problems with knowing what is/isn't appropriate chat/behaviour. Being socially impaired is one of the main diagnostic criteria.

I don't have any of the ND things as far as I know, but I was always not great at small talk etc. I found it difficult to know what to say, and I found most things asked I had no response as often just thought why are you asking me that? It's irrelevant/ boring etc.

I did learn over 30 years to get better and now mostly it's fine. I'm still terrible in groups though don't think that will ever change.

So yes it can be learnt and that makes things much easier in so many situations.

It's supposed to be bland and dull it's meaningless social lubricant.

If you talk to someone who seems on same wavelength then obv more interesting topics come naturally.

IME.

I'm the same. I really struggle. But I also have Aspergers which I imagine is why..!

Probably won't help but my basic things I learnt were-

When it comes to strangers in situation where chat expected or struck up. Like neighbour you hardly know on street, work conference, someone you recognise at work coffee machine, gym, anything where you don't know each other at all.

What helped me was realising it's usually a social nicety, and the conversation involved a range of boring questions and bland answers. And generally neither of you are interested at all.

Once I realised that I stopped treating every one as an interaction where they were actually interested and I thought properly
properly about answers and was thinking why are they asking that? Why do they think I'm interested in Y? It got so much easier.

Bland to and fro usually involving common things.

Switching off was better and realising as long as I was agreeable and neutral it was easy. And asking same question back even if you have no interest at all.

I know it sounds weird to have to do that but it's worked well and I'm much more relaxed.

Of course some you move on get to know gradually and then you can talk about things you are both actually interested in!

Agree with @EightWheelGirl.

I don’t understand why the workplace/bosses thing has been introduced. The OP isn’t asking about making friends with her boss.

I agree about making assumptions and categorising men and women so strictly being a barrier. You aren’t like the women you describe, so why do you think all other women are? Also the response “FINE I’ll just sit quiet and only speak when I’m spoken to” (paraphrased sorry) doesn’t help

Women don't have a laugh?
That's news to me. I'm always pissing about.

Unless you mean flirty 'banter' (I hate that word) and that weird girly shit with its sexual undertones which of course won't be as well received by straight women as it would by straight men. But if that's not the case and it's just normal jokes I promise you women like to laugh just as much as men do.