How do you talk to other women?

[littlepieces]

I've always found making friendships, or even just conversation, with women really difficult, I feel like there's something I'm just not getting. I much prefer the company of men and find them much easier to talk to, easier to maintain relationships with, and much easier to sort of read I suppose. I also never really know what to say to women? With men I just have a laugh, but women don't really communicate like that. What do you talk about with other women? Anyone else similar? Or have any advice?

Eg. I went for a try out at a sports club recently. Another woman around my age was also there for the first time, so I said hi it's my first time here too, haven't played for a while not sure what to expect etc. She just looked at me like I'd spoken in a foreign language, and said nothing back. I tried again, but just got a brief laugh humouring me. And then later we had to pair up for a warm up and I turned to her to ask if she wanted to pair up and she turned immediately away and asked someone else. I don't look unusual or anything so have absolutely no idea what that was all about, but would say that's pretty typical of my social failings!

I have heard things like this IRL.

I think if you treat people as people, well for me anyway, I was oblivious to a lot of stuff. And so I was unaware that actually things do go on for a long time.

Eg beautiful women. Are people. Why would I be funny about them? Wouldn't occur to me.
But over the years I have heard other women saying horrible things just because of their looks. And men assuming shit about them too.

And I suppose that if that's the way you are then you also would assume that was the way it was.

I mean it's all shit. But in our society with stereotypes pushed so hard. I suppose it's inevitable.

And it's everywhere. Eg I get loads of smellies for Xmas every year. Including from people who've known me for years really well and so know that's not what I would like. My parents do it!

These default sex based assumptions are deeply embedded and easy I suppose. Men like football and alcohol. Women like chocolate smelly candles and alcohol but different girly alcohol...

Bah.

@PurpleSapphire

Not sure i'd agree with that cheese, as a shy person i'd probably run a mile if a stranger started showering me with compliments, i'd find it intimidating

I am however, socially awkward to the extreme and tend to keep my mouth shut because I can guarantee something silly will come out!

Ah not showering! Although I'm sure you are worthy of many compliments!

That comes after a period of seeing around. Tentative mutual smiles of recognition. Maybe starting to nod / smile wider. Go through a long hi phase. Add how's it going. All mutual. And then when together in whatever situation eg lift, at bar, school gates. BOOM! bring out the big guns. You've had your hair cut haven't you? It looks great! They respond. And after weeks/ months/ years. Wham! You both think yep nice and one of you takes the leap of faith and suggests doing something together. Something not too big or long.

I mean. You don't rush these things obv

"BOOM bring out the big guns" That gives me visions of people wanting to be friends...waiting to pounce

Tickled me that has!!

[quote Apguh]@littlepieces I THINK - because I'm not sure, with females, compliments work well to start with. But be prepared to listen. I think perhaps saying nice hair, or some something else that u like. Nice shoes? That may get a conversation going. Most Females care very much about appearance and want to chat about hair, make up, bags, shoes etc. I'm just guessing here. [/quote]
You are indeed guessing. I much prefer to talk about politics and more weighty stuff. I don't think this makes me in any way intellectually superior but it does mean that your guess is wrong.

Well so do I! But with a stranger I'd rather have. I like your tattoo. Rather the than. What's your view on no northern Ireland and brexit???

With friends I tend to talk s lot about Feminism. Including the men

If the first thing I said to a woman I didn't know was. I'd be interested in to your views on the impact of RC on women and girls globally...
Or. The pay gap? What's your opinion?

They would rightly take that as very odd and a bit scary.

Same reason a man would say seen the match to a man they didn't know.. Rather than. I dunno. What are your thoughts on the Niger Delta pollution?

I mean I'm not saying you HAVE to do that obv. And the approach like I say you can tell at a glance what will go down well.

If a woman is v glam then hair etc.

If a woman is alternative then it's still obvious what they have spent time on.

And it's the same for men. That's a very sharp suit. Your Mohican is amazing! I love the colours...

I had to learn all this. I find a lot of people baffling. And that's what the bland talk is for. For both sexes. It's meaningless but provides social lubrication.

I mean anything

Is that s good book?
Oh what have you got for lunch?
What a lovely dog? ( I don't like dogs much)

Everyone likes to hear something positive!

Oh hi person I've seen around twice. What do you make of the situation with Belarus?

Erm no.

Oh oops! You weren't replying to me. I had said similar. However both sexes generally like a compliment! So opps but never mind.

I think that woman was rude to not even reply and she should have been welcoming, especially if you're new!

I start off conversations with whatever we have in common - business, children, the reason why you're where you are. But I am not shy and have a wide number of interests and I moved a lot as a child and adult so I'm used to making new friends.

Just be yourself and you'll meet the right people. No point talking about something you're not interested in. And if you prefer the company of men, I don't see the problem. I'm the opposite, the majority of my friends are women.

I think the person you were trying to talk to was rude. She could have replied keeping it short and polite. Ignoring you like that says more about her than you.
If you are looking to make new friends, try Fb groups where you can find people who you know will have something in common with you. You can also test the waters with regard to how friendly the members are. Do they welcome you and invite you to their next meet up, or are they clique. You will also most likely strike up a conversation with a few, so will have familiar faces to seek out once you get there.
Once you make a few friends then more will follow.

CheeseMmmm I've never had a Smalltalk conversation about hair or shoes with a woman I don't know, yet I feel more comfortable with women than men generally and don't struggle with smalltalk generally (though I often don't feel like making smalltalk, which is different).

I honestly think I make the same smalltalk with men and women - usually it'd be something fairly inane about the environment/ specific context - waiting times, paperwork, noise level, facilities, weather, parking, changes since last visit, covid rules...

Commenting on clothes/ shoes/ hair is way too personal for smalltalk unless you genuinely love something the other woman is wearing/ she has similar hair to you genuinely cut beautifully and want to know where to buy similar/ get a hairdresser recommendation, IMO.

I also never buy the "women hate me because I'm beautiful" thing for two reasons - one is that unless these women believe themselves to be the most beautiful woman alive, then they still have a good pool of women as good looking and better looking than themselves, who presumably won't be unable to communicate due to burning jealousy It is true that often friends are vaguely similar, and that can apply to looks too (though more when all the individuals are very young and don't meet in the context of a stronger common interest like work/ kids/ hobby).

The second is that half the reason people gravitate towards people of the same sex to make smalltalk is the initial assumption that the majority of people are straight and that making a beeline for a complete stranger of the opposite sex when there's a choice will look like flirting even when it isn't. The more attractive a person is, the more this is the case.

I've never met a woman who said women hate me because I'm beautiful IRL.

I have met a lot of men and women who are funny about good looking women in one way or another.

Someone upthread said something about beautiful women and how lots of women are competitive on looks and so just don't like them.

Dunno if true but IME beautiful women are people like anyone else.

Age/ sex/ style etc is a poor indicator of anyone's personality and if you will get on well.

CheeseMmmm I see you meant more acquaintances you've seen around and only said hi too. That makes sense of course!

Essentially the same advice to the OP - take it slow! Don't go in heavy with a barrage of comments about yourself and questions (nor compliments) about them with someone you've never met - its really intimidating/ off putting/ alarming.

Sorry but silently creasing at this comment ‘ Maybe try starting with just smiles and hellos and build familiarity and trust from there instead of trying to force it from the first moment.’

After all the negative comments aimed at women who don’t enjoy stranger interactions aimed at their child including touching etc.

Op, I think some people are just a bit…. Meh. This particular women was rude IMO.
You can reply to someone whilst making it known you’re not up for a chat.

I’d happily chat to anyone.

I have never paid a compliment that wasn't well received! Obv you need to mean it and to gauge what will make them happy.

I mean. Could be anything. And obv. That's just what I've found is good as an ice breaker! Like I mentioned I learnt how to do this stuff as I was never much good at idle meaningless chat with strangers.

It's not a rule or anything! Different things for different people. Obviously.

I still think that with someone you don't know except to say hi. Opening with politics is a bit much.

Oh sorry until didn't see last post!

Yes exactly.

OP was in situation with total stranger. That's the sort of thing I was coming from. And as per previous post. A smile or vv neutral comment with no questions is the max.

Last post was for until.

(People I know well I compliment as well if anything changed, they always seem surprised and happy! I don't expect it back and tbh thinking about it, it's not standard at all. I like making people feel good though!).

CheeseMmmm I agree that the "women hate me because I'm beautiful" thing is one you generally read online (where strangely enough you can't see whether the person commenting is actually beautiful or indeed a woman)!

I remember an "Apprentice" (the TV series) candidate making that comment and being a perfectly nice looking woman but most definitely not being one of the most beautiful of the candidates. I also remember the same on "Hells kitchen" from a very ordinary looking contestant - in that case it really was a surprising interpretation of why she wasn't getting on with her fellow contestants... However those programmes obviously pick controversial characters deliberately and edit their footage to make them seem even more controversial! Not a reflection of the people in question as they are in their everyday lives obviously.

I've only heard the opinion that "women hate me because I'm beautiful" from one woman in "real life" and that was from a potential houseshare housemate 25+ years ago - she told me that before I moved in, as well as asking whether I'd be upset by the fact she liked walking around the house naked (which she never actually did once I moved in thankfully) then a few months after I moved in she went on to accuse me of having "stolen" her rather unappealing slightly creepy hipster boyfriend who I'd only chatted to in the kitchen out of politeness a couple of times... I'm not sure why she thought I'd have been able to "steal" him, given her beauty... nor actually how to go about stealing an adult man... I certainly hadn't stolen him and wouldn't have been interested in him, though they did break up!

Yep rare irl but pushed in anecdote.

Stereotype.

At sports club, i've got a (female) mate who would have instantly chatted back to OP & been glad to have an instant buddy.

How can you feel rejected by someone who doesn't know you from Eve?

When I was younger I probably sounded like you op. Then I realised I was the reason I couldn't make friends with women because my own internalised misogyny was causing me to expect women to act a certain way and look for them too. Since realise it was a 'me' problem I have loads of friends and realise that I won't get along with everyone but that's not because of what's between their legs.

If someone approached me at a gym I would probably come across quite offish as I'm usually a nervous ball of self conscious energy.

@CheeseMmmm

Tbf in general women and men are socialised (strongly!) to certain topics with same sex acquaintances. And there are general ones across both.

General is things like. Comment on weather. How's work. Something crap/ good that you both are familiar with- lockdown god I'm sick of it. There's a new restaurant opening in X! Etc.

Standard male specific neutral chat with acquaintances is invariably sport esp football. (DH no interest football but I laughed when realises he skims sports news so aware of goings on!).

Standard female specific neutral chat with acquaintances can often be mutual admiration of hair/ shoes etc and where did you get them etc.

Note. None of this is about actually being interested. It's just there to ease social interactions with same sex.. In a way that is usually bland, impersonal, expected etc.

I can do the women standard thing. DH keeps up to date with the male standard thing!

This does not mean even slightly that is what men/ women are actually interested in as individuals. That comes later as you get to know each other and become closer.

Yes some men and some women are really interested in the standard bland topics.

Surely the vast majority of people don't think those bland topics are always genuine massive interests and what they talk about with good friends? Surely!

This is unfortunately true but it drives me up the wall. I absolutely cannot stand that kind of gender-based bonding, I feel awkward when I can't respond and sometimes you feel you've ruffled feathers unwittingly because you can't play the same game.

IME the absolute worst for this is diet chat. I don't care about your diet (and think the entire industry is a pernicious scam), I don't think about my weight and I love food. Please don't try to bond with me over how "naughty" you feel eating a chocolate.

Interestingly DP says that a lot of men react in much the same ruffled-feathers way when he doesn't have anything to say about football (and makes it clear he's not interested).

I like to think I've been good at making friends though - I don't think of chatting to people in gendered terms though. I talk about whatever shared interest has brought us to the same place. Almost all of my adult friends have been made through a shared interest whether a particular sport, a particular kind of music, a particular kind of political activism etc etc.

It sounds like you just missed some cues- maybe she was nervous, and found a direct and more persistent approach uncomfortable at that moment. Then warmed up and felt more confident elsewhere.

Sometimes it can be easy to forget that nt people get overwhelmed in social situations too- especially new ones. They also come across as rude in these circumstances.

If it’s typical of your interactions with women the. It might be worth thinking about a bit more- there are gender differences in communication style, but it’s important to remember they don’t work in every situation.
For instance- women typically start chats with people they don’t know. Men are statistically less likely to do that.
There are social norms to starting these chats- if someone doesn’t respond, for instance, or looks uncomfortable, then let the conversation drop.
It may start again later- but it won’t if you keep pushing it. A nt woman might in these circumstances just-move on to someone else 🤷‍♀️

I have a nd aunt and she does ‘getting to know you’ chat the exact same way she does family chat: in entire paragraphs! It can be overwhelming as a nt person bc it is unusual. And in a new social situation, a nt woman is looking for ‘usual’ and ‘normal’ and ‘fitting in’ in order to ‘get their bearings’ socially.
Typically, by no means always-

I think you should have asked her a question about herself. You didn't really give her an opening, you just made a statement about yourself. You need to show interest in her and invite her to say something.

With men I just have a laugh, but women don't really communicate like that

Yeah, let's face it, 51% of the population are humourless bitches.
It's that extra X chromosome - gets in the way of the laughter gland.
That's biological fact, that is.