Haven’t heard from date

[Raspberryvanilla1]

Meant to be going on a (fourth) date tomorrow, haven’t heard from him since 4pm yesterday afternoon. First three dates went really well - we both enjoyed each other’s company, and he was really keen for us to meet up again.

I know it’s only 11.30am now but he has almost always messaged in the evening/morning so far, feel a bit deflated. am I overreacting to think he has probably lost interest?

Tia

Your assumptions make an arse of you.

I’m sorry op, being left wondering like that is shit. I would leave it, assume the worst, and be pleasantly surprised if you find out he has a genuine reason for being out of contact.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think being treated like this has got anything to do with whether or not you’ve shagged him. Being ghosted is cowardly and shit, end of. And as for having the “upper hand” in a relationship….who even wants that or thinks like that?? I think most people want a genuine relationship, as equals and lots of people do successfully have that. Hurtful as I’m sure it is he might not be the one for you and it’s best to find out sooner rather than later xx

[quote PinkMochi]@CecilieRose just because you’ve been ghosted after having sex on the first date doesn’t mean that other women aren’t. You sound really bitter. Loads of men and women have sex on the first date and are still in a healthy relationship decades later. Loads of people wait to have sex and then end up in toxic relationships. There’s no correlation, my dear Edwardian aunt.[/quote]
Why are you so rude and horrible @PinkMochi ?

Someone has a different take on the situation and you are shitty and make personal insults to them?

I've never had a one night stand, that doesn't make me an Edwardian Aunt.
I've had plenty of sex but that's always been with guys I've been dating or in a relationship with. I just have never met a guy who I've had that instant connection with. That's just me, I don't judge people who have one night stands, I couldn't give a shit and I definitely wouldn't be insulting them, so not sure why you need to insult those who don't?

I agree with a lot of what C-Rose has (bravely - because lots on this thread seem hugely weirdly angry about their opinion) said. Apps have made it very very easy for reasonably attractive guys to be able to have sex very frequently with a lot of different women. Some (a lot of) men seem to care a lot about the amount of women they have had sex with, and are really keen to rack up the numbers.

I'm personally on dating apps and I'm looking for a longer term relationship/Fwb so I do date differently (eg first 'date' a quick drink in a pub/bar rather than a dinner/lots of drinking/whole evening/night together). I don't tolerant sex talk before we've even met, I want intelligent articulate interesting guys to hang out with, sex is a given if we date properly so I don't need to talk about it with randy ransomers.

@lovingnewme exactly. I honestly think a lot of people just don't seem to know many men socially. It's not the case that only 'horrible men' behave like that now. Apps have created a world where even relatively decent men feel like kids in a sweet shop, a world where actually no, it's not particularly awful to ghost someone if you're no longer interested, and where there's much less incentive to get into a committed relationship because you can have all the perks and none of the downsides. I find it almost comical that so many women think this is liberating for women when in fact, it's just turned the tables back so men have the power again. When I was in my early twenties, I don't remember any of my female friends pining over men and being treated like shit and disrespected. Now it's rife. It's not a few 'bad apples', it's the entire culture.

Case in point - a male friend of mine had never had a girlfriend in the six years I'd known him. He'd have a new woman every couple of weeks from the apps, tons of casual sex, zero commitment. He claimed he wasn't cut out for relationships. Then the pandemic happened, and suddenly he couldn't have sex for months during the first lockdown. Guess what? He ended up becoming official with the first woman he met on an app after lockdown lifted, and they're still together now, and living together. Because suddenly, when he didn't have his choice of hundreds of women on Tinder, and he didn't know if there would be more lockdowns to hamper his sex life, he was able to build a proper relationship and give someone a chance. I have no doubt in my mind that if covid hadn't happened, she'd have been just another notch on his bedpost, disregarded after a couple of weeks with some flimsy 'wasn't really feeling it' comment.

You started by blaming women, but your post above i can start to get on board with. It's the culture, its modern tech, its toxic masculinity and entitlement. But to blame women and suggest we adjust our behaviour in order to facilitate a change in men was what got everyone's backs up.

And I do think you were quite rude to the OP.... ' wah wah wah etc etc... ' - didn't seem necessary.

@Getbehindme, you're still not getting it.

It's not about 'blaming women'. It's acknowledging the reality that by having casual sex, women are playing right into men's hands here, by enabling them to behave as they do. If there were no women to have ONS with, men would have to work much harder at actually being decent partners and building relationships.

It's just a basic cause and effect scenario. If you can sleep with different women whenever you feel like it, why bother worrying about people's feelings or trying not to hurt and offend them? It's not that these men are being actively malicious, they just don't need to care. They've moved onto another shiny new thing. They're getting what they want.

By seeing it the way you do, talking about 'blame' and who's 'fault' it is, you are completely missing the point.

By lumping men in with the culture that’s been creating is to remove their individual responsibility to behave with care towards another person. Of course they are being actively malicious. They are actively making a choice to ignore messages/calls and they full well know that doing so will cause disappointment and emotional harm. It is a cowardice to actively ignore a situation in which they know they doing wrong - if they didn’t think they were doing wrong then they would not cut communication with someone with whom they were previously talking to multiple times a day.

We’re well past the times when it would be understandable to blame a homogeneous culture. There is too much out there now to enlighten people, particularly men, to their unkindness towards others. They know this and are choosing to behave with harmful intent.

My message about sex wasn't about men's behaviour or women being gatekeepers of sex or sex being transactional. Simply that (in my experience) when I have sex with someone I become far more involved with them and develop feelings and am not as objective as I am when I haven't had sex with them. So I prefer to get my feelings sorted first so that I know they're right for me.

I also disagree about men just wanting sex and not relationships. I know lots of men, of all ages who want a relationship and don't want casual. I also know women who don't want anything serious and just want fun (and I was in that camp for a while after a couple of long shitty relationships).

I think most ghosters will ghost whether you sleep with them on date one or date four. They are after one thing and once they get it, that’s it, game over.

I do agree that it’s a man’s world when it comes to dating. There will be some looking for relationships but many just want sex with as many women as they can. It’s possible that the sex will be that good with one of their partners that it makes them deviate from their plan but they know that they can get back to it at anytime.

I had lots of flings when younger but I always went into them hoping they might lead to more. I think that’s the case for most women on OLD. The goal is a relationship.

@Didimum

By lumping men in with the culture that’s been creating is to remove their individual responsibility to behave with care towards another person. Of course they are being actively malicious. They are actively making a choice to ignore messages/calls and they full well know that doing so will cause disappointment and emotional harm. It is a cowardice to actively ignore a situation in which they know they doing wrong - if they didn’t think they were doing wrong then they would not cut communication with someone with whom they were previously talking to multiple times a day.

We’re well past the times when it would be understandable to blame a homogeneous culture. There is too much out there now to enlighten people, particularly men, to their unkindness towards others. They know this and are choosing to behave with harmful intent.

Sigh.

I think you're vastly overestimating how much the average person cares. Most people are out for themselves. Most people behave in a certain way out of fear of consequences, not out of some innate goodness. Realising this fact made my life much easier, when I stopped expecting people to behave the way I wanted them to.

You can say all you like that these men are malicious and cowardly - is it going to change anything?

@Hema23

I think most ghosters will ghost whether you sleep with them on date one or date four. They are after one thing and once they get it, that’s it, game over.

I do agree that it’s a man’s world when it comes to dating. There will be some looking for relationships but many just want sex with as many women as they can. It’s possible that the sex will be that good with one of their partners that it makes them deviate from their plan but they know that they can get back to it at anytime.

I had lots of flings when younger but I always went into them hoping they might lead to more. I think that’s the case for most women on OLD. The goal is a relationship.

Yes, and this is the problem. Men are well aware that most women on OLD are looking for a relationship, whatever they might claim, and this gives men the upper hand, because the person who cares least always comes out on top.

Re the ghosting, I think few men who are just after sex would have the patience to keep dating someone for weeks if no sex was involved.

But lots of people have sex early on thinking it will make them like us more, feel connected etc. When in truth the other party just sees sex ( or conquest)

Do they though? I’ve had sex early on, not because I think it will make him like me. But because I like him. And I like sex. It may be that I enjoy it enough and like him enough that I would like to do it again, and if he doesn’t feel the same way then that’s annoying. But it doesn’t mean the only reason I had sex with him was because I wanted a relationship out of it. I wanted a relationship and I wanted sex. It turns out he wanted sex but not a relationship (with me). Had he spelled out up front “this sex isn’t going anywhere and I won’t see you again afterwards” would I still do it? Probably not. But in the moment when you’re feeling it, I’m pretty sure most women aren’t cynically thinking “if I do this thing he’ll fall for me” they’re just thinking “oh yeah, he’s sexy as hell and I want to see him naked”.

Your words:

Women don't help by jumping into bed with someone they've met once or twice via an app.It used to be the case that men would want to stay in your best books for a very long time because they'd feel lucky to be with you and everything that comes with a relationship. What incentive is there now if they can just match with someone else and sleep with them? It's probably already happened.

**Dating apps and women 'taking control' of their sexuality have absolutely ruined it for people who want serious relationships.

I dated someone for a few months in the past, really nice guy, we hadn’t slept together until the 8 week mark, he didn’t seem to initiate, so I held back until I eventually initiated sex. The sex was awful and awkward and there was no sexual chemistry at all between us, we were better off as friends. So waiting too long to involve yourself sexually does run the risk that you’re not compatible.
OP you have done nothing wrong in having sex when you did, it felt right, you both consented. If he ignores you, this says everything about him, not you.

@RaisedByPangolins

But lots of people have sex early on thinking it will make them like us more, feel connected etc. When in truth the other party just sees sex ( or conquest)

Do they though? I’ve had sex early on, not because I think it will make him like me. But because I like him. And I like sex. It may be that I enjoy it enough and like him enough that I would like to do it again, and if he doesn’t feel the same way then that’s annoying. But it doesn’t mean the only reason I had sex with him was because I wanted a relationship out of it. I wanted a relationship and I wanted sex. It turns out he wanted sex but not a relationship (with me). Had he spelled out up front “this sex isn’t going anywhere and I won’t see you again afterwards” would I still do it? Probably not. But in the moment when you’re feeling it, I’m pretty sure most women aren’t cynically thinking “if I do this thing he’ll fall for me” they’re just thinking “oh yeah, he’s sexy as hell and I want to see him naked”.

The problem is when the man knows full well he doesn't want to see the woman afterwards, and is happy to pretend otherwise to get what he wants. This seems to happen an awful lot, doesn't it?

By seeing it the way you do, talking about 'blame' and who's 'fault' it is, you are completely missing the point.

Eh?! You're the one who said this...

Dating apps and women 'taking control' of their sexuality have absolutely ruined it for people who want serious relationships.

It's not a lack of reading comprehension to see that comment as assigning 'blame' and 'fault'. Maybe you just didn't explain it correctly so whatever you did mean didn't come across clearly. Because it reads explicitly as assigning blame and fault.

You don't speak for me. I don't want a relationship. I do want the pleasure of sex. Its not a ruse to get the person I have sex with to fall for me. He's not my type for starters - he has very opposing political views for a start, and for a relationship I'd not want him as a partner - but we're sexually attracted to one another and we both want to enjoy a pleasurable time together.

There's a whole world of us out there, and I think it scares people to think we're out there, prowling around, offering sex and 'ruining' it for everyone else.

As it happens, I establish a connection with someone, I meet with them, I do my own due diligence before I embark on this. Its not just 'who's free tonight' which I think some people imagine. And maybe is what happens for others.

Pop over to the Sex board to see grown up people talking in a grown up way about sex that maybe doesn't conform to your standards. It's refreshing. But it's not for everyone.

I

@youvegottenminuteslynn

By seeing it the way you do, talking about 'blame' and who's 'fault' it is, you are completely missing the point.

Eh?! You're the one who said this...

Dating apps and women 'taking control' of their sexuality have absolutely ruined it for people who want serious relationships.

It's not a lack of reading comprehension to see that comment as assigning 'blame' and 'fault'. Maybe you just didn't explain it correctly so whatever you did mean didn't come across clearly. Because it reads explicitly as assigning blame and fault.

Yes, because you don't seem to be able to interpret the point and are obsessed with black and white thinking. Plenty of other posters have understood my point and agreed with it. I'm not sure how many more times I can explain until you get it.

Yes, I strongly believe that if women stopped using dating apps and having casual sex, that men would behave much better. That isn't 'blaming', it's stating an opinion.

Yes, women 'should' be able to have sex whenever they like and be respected. Yes, men 'should' just be decent regardless of whether there's an incentive to be. But the world doesn't work like that, does it? Who cares about what's technically right or wrong if it doesn't improve the outcome? That's my point, which you don't seem to be able to grasp.

@Getbehindme

You don't speak for me. I don't want a relationship. I do want the pleasure of sex. Its not a ruse to get the person I have sex with to fall for me. He's not my type for starters - he has very opposing political views for a start, and for a relationship I'd not want him as a partner - but we're sexually attracted to one another and we both want to enjoy a pleasurable time together.

There's a whole world of us out there, and I think it scares people to think we're out there, prowling around, offering sex and 'ruining' it for everyone else.

As it happens, I establish a connection with someone, I meet with them, I do my own due diligence before I embark on this. Its not just 'who's free tonight' which I think some people imagine. And maybe is what happens for others.

Pop over to the Sex board to see grown up people talking in a grown up way about sex that maybe doesn't conform to your standards. It's refreshing. But it's not for everyone.

I

So? I've already talked about my friend who is just like you.

That doesn't mean most women are like you, does it? They simply aren't. As I have already said, lots seem to like to think they're like you, but when it comes down to it, they get hurt and damaged by being casually disregarded by men they're developing feelings for, which only illustrates my point about dating being skewed in the men's favour. As I've already said, the person who cares least wins, and that's most often the man.

I'm talking in general terms, not edge cases.

Oh you are bloody impossible @CecilieRose are you a politician or something

@Getbehindme

Oh you are bloody impossible *@CecilieRose* are you a politician or something

No, just logical and rational. Unlike the person trying to convince us that women who are only looking for casual sex and flings are in the majority.

This is the entire problem in this scenario - OP was hoping for more and thought they were working towards a relationship, the man just wanted a bit of sex and to move on. That's entirely what has created OP's problem and made her feel sad. But yeah, let's pretend it's all about you.

@CecilieRose It may be time for you to consider that, rather than lacking your level of intellect and worldliness, some people on this thread simply disagree with you. People aren’t disagreeing with you because they ‘don’t get it’, they are disagreeing with you because they think you are wrong.

Luckily the world is big enough to accommodate two or more opinions on many a topic.

This is the entire problem in this scenario - OP was hoping for more and thought they were working towards a relationship, the man just wanted a bit of sex and to move on. That's entirely what has created OP's problem and made her feel sad. But yeah, let's pretend it's all about you.

That's what YOU have taken from the OP's (10) posts, as it suits your narrative. No one knows why he's not been in touch, could be anything. You've just deduced he's just wanted a bit of sex and now he's off as all men are like that with girls who put out early. Which is ridiculous.

So I'm not logical and rational now?

As it happens, my opinion is that you derailed the thread with that initial post, and you've been combative and condescending ever since.

Have a good day.

[quote Didimum]@CecilieRose It may be time for you to consider that, rather than lacking your level of intellect and worldliness, some people on this thread simply disagree with you. People aren’t disagreeing with you because they ‘don’t get it’, they are disagreeing with you because they think you are wrong.

Luckily the world is big enough to accommodate two or more opinions on many a topic.[/quote]
Except they're not, because they're arguing against points I'm not making, but I am rather tired of trying to explain. Plenty of other posters seem to understand just fine.