Haven’t heard from date

[Raspberryvanilla1]

Meant to be going on a (fourth) date tomorrow, haven’t heard from him since 4pm yesterday afternoon. First three dates went really well - we both enjoyed each other’s company, and he was really keen for us to meet up again.

I know it’s only 11.30am now but he has almost always messaged in the evening/morning so far, feel a bit deflated. am I overreacting to think he has probably lost interest?

Tia

And yet you think my opinion is wrong?

Yes I think that your opinion is wrong when you say that women 'taking control of their sexuality' (your words) is to blame for men's behaviour and when you say that the solution is not for men to behave differently, but for women to go back to seeing sex as a tool to gain 'the upper hand' over men despite all of the societal, economic and emotional disadvantages that dynamic created for women.

I think it's ridiculous and wrong.

@CecilieRose - were you a virgin on your wedding night? I'm not sure how you expect people to build relationships or test compatibility if everyone is chaste and chaperoned......,,

@youvegottenminuteslynn

And yet you think my opinion is wrong?

Yes I think that your opinion is wrong when you say that women 'taking control of their sexuality' (your words) is to blame for men's behaviour and when you say that the solution is not for men to behave differently, but for women to go back to seeing sex as a tool to gain 'the upper hand' over men despite all of the societal, economic and emotional disadvantages that dynamic created for women.

I think it's ridiculous and wrong.

You're just not understanding how people work. Or any animals.

Who flipping cares if the 'onus' is on men to behave better? Yes it is, but where does it get us, exactly? You think men are just going to wake up tomorrow and think 'you know, these women are right, I really should treat them better?'

No, they're not going to do that, because why would they? Where's the incentive? That's right, there isn't one. You have a very naive view of the world if you think most people just behave themselves for the sake of it and not because there are consequences for not doing so.

Can we all agree to ignore @CecilieRose moving forward? The misogyny is nauseating. I slept with my DP on the third date and we’re still going strong almost 2 years later. We’re living together and he’s told me to expect a proposal next year so clearly taking control of my sexuality wasn’t that off putting

What was your last message?

Did it day, what tome we meeting tomorrow? Or was it more conversational and generic?

Personally, id be direct. Message now and say. Are we still on for tonight?

I love how this man's poor and frankly rude behaviour is STILL women's fault.
It's never just 'what a shit bloke, there's loads of them'

That's actually true- and demonstrably so, but I might as well start gathering my own firewood and tie myself to a stake now before some posters come on to tell me there are also awful women and perhaps OP put the man off

@CecilieRose

Either you're a strong, independent woman who enjoys sex and using men as much as they use you, or you're looking for a traditional relationship with all the trappings.

Or you are a strong, independent woman who enjoys sex and wants a monogamous relationship with a man who sees you as an equal rather than either of you having to 'use' one another for sex. That's me, anyway. And I'm very happy with my equal partner. Neither of us are using each other.

When you say 'all the trappings' do you mean happiness, laughter, fun, shared vision for the future etc? Because you can have all that and also enjoy sex just as much as men and have it at any point in your relationship you want whether first date or after months.

It's really depressing that you see a woman enjoying sex and a woman being in a traditional (by which I presume you mean monogamous) relationship as mutually exclusive.

It's also really depressing that you seem determined to position sex as something one or both parties are 'using' each other for as if it's always a power play.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Many of us don't.

[quote nomorefrogs]@CecilieRose - were you a virgin on your wedding night? I'm not sure how you expect people to build relationships or test compatibility if everyone is chaste and chaperoned......,,[/quote]
Never been married and not at all prudish.

Just not naive and deluded enough to think that casual sex and apps have ruined the dating experience. I'm not saying nobody should have sex before marriage. I'm saying there's quite a stunning lack of self awareness going on from people who sleep with men they've met once or twice for a few hours having expectations about how they should be treated.

@crochetmonkey74

I love how this man's poor and frankly rude behaviour is STILL women's fault. It's never just 'what a shit bloke, there's loads of them'

That's actually true- and demonstrably so, but I might as well start gathering my own firewood and tie myself to a stake now before some posters come on to tell me there are also awful women and perhaps OP put the man off

I'm not saying it's women's fault. I'm saying that if all women decided to stop having casual sex, we'd very likely find that men upped their game considerably. Far less incentive to ghost after sex if there could be a couple of years' wait before the next one.

I love how most of you think it's coincidental that men got shittier and shittier right as casual sex got easier and easier.

Should it be like that? No.
Is it like that? Yes.

@CecilieRose

Either you're a strong, independent woman who enjoys sex and using men as much as they use you, or you're looking for a traditional relationship with all the trappings.

Props for being the first woman I've ever heard so clearly and succinctly describe their own Madonna / Whore complex. A brand of misogyny usually reserved for men. Even more depressing when it's the belief of a woman.

I really hope cecillerose doesn't bleat this shite elsewhere

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@CecilieRose

Either you're a strong, independent woman who enjoys sex and using men as much as they use you, or you're looking for a traditional relationship with all the trappings.

Or you are a strong, independent woman who enjoys sex and wants a monogamous relationship with a man who sees you as an equal rather than either of you having to 'use' one another for sex. That's me, anyway. And I'm very happy with my equal partner. Neither of us are using each other.

When you say 'all the trappings' do you mean happiness, laughter, fun, shared vision for the future etc? Because you can have all that and also enjoy sex just as much as men and have it at any point in your relationship you want whether first date or after months.

It's really depressing that you see a woman enjoying sex and a woman being in a traditional (by which I presume you mean monogamous) relationship as mutually exclusive.

It's also really depressing that you seem determined to position sex as something one or both parties are 'using' each other for as if it's always a power play.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Many of us don't. [/quote]
You're missing the point entirely.

We have a woman who was used for sex, is now sad about it, and a bunch of people going 'wah wah men are horrible'.

If OP didn't feel used, she wouldn't be sad and deflated. But what did this man owe her, really? You can't on one hand say men and women are equal and on the other say men are shit for not wanting to pursue things with someone they've slept with.

When a guy didn’t let me know about meeting (the day before meeting), I didn’t meet them. I wasn’t wasting my day checking my phone every two minutes . I often made other plans.

He’s not prioritising you, who wants a relationship like that? Your dates should be the highlight of his week! He’s not even got common courtesy to respond to your previous text. Unless there’s some amazing reason he comes back with, I’d let this one slide and make plans for your weekend.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@CecilieRose

Either you're a strong, independent woman who enjoys sex and using men as much as they use you, or you're looking for a traditional relationship with all the trappings.

Props for being the first woman I've ever heard so clearly and succinctly describe their own Madonna / Whore complex. A brand of misogyny usually reserved for men. Even more depressing when it's the belief of a woman. [/quote]
Nope, you're just incapable of actually understanding what I'm trying to say because you're so busy frothing at the mouth over perceived misogyny and other bullshit.

Yes, let's all keep on pretending men are just terrible and women's behaviour has nothing to do with any of it!

Yes, that's the spirit! So useful! So productive!

You made it too easy for him, most men online just want easy sex without having to make any effort.

@CecilieRose

You're missing the point entirely.

That's rich

Sorry you're a woman and a misogynist, it must be a real headfuck.

I promise you though, it is possible to enjoy sex as much as a bloke and for sex to not involve one party 'using' the other AND to even lead to (gasp!) a relationship.

I hope you don't always see sex in such rigid terms and shake off your madonna / whore complex

@Moonface123

You made it too easy for him, most men online just want easy sex without having to make any effort.

Yes, God forbid someone would state the obvious. Wait for the pitchforks now.

@CecilieRose

I'm not frothing, I'm just posting on a forum. Just like you. If anyone is frothing it's you - chill out, you sound ever so angry with women in general.

As I said, it's sad you view sex the way you do and either ill informed or disingenuous not to acknowledge all the negative things that came with the perceived 'upper hand' you mention women have lost.

I'm saying that if all women decided to stop having casual sex, we'd very likely find that men upped their game considerably

What about the roughly 2000 years before now when women didn't have casual sex and were still raped/ beaten/ forced into marriage/ shamed for being pregnant out of marriage etc etc etc
Men haven't got worse cos women have sex with them

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@CecilieRose

You're missing the point entirely.

That's rich

Sorry you're a woman and a misogynist, it must be a real headfuck.

I promise you though, it is possible to enjoy sex as much as a bloke and for sex to not involve one party 'using' the other AND to even lead to (gasp!) a relationship.

I hope you don't always see sex in such rigid terms and shake off your madonna / whore complex [/quote]
Not a headfuck at all. Unlike you, I'm a very logical and rational person. I would not expect anything from someone I'd slept with who was basically a stranger to me.

Funny how some talk about 'transactional' things because that's the implicit transaction here. Sex = owed something. Why would someone feel sad about being rejected by someone they'd had a mutually satisfying time with? Why is a man horrible for not wanting to pursue anything further and losing interest?

Maybe you should go to a therapist and unpack your own confusion.

I'm not sure that anyone is saying men have got shittier since casual sex became acceptable. This is just one man who hasn't had the decency to be up front about where his head is and looks to have ghosted the op. In my view there will always be some men who are shitbags but in general terms there is less tolerance of crap behaviour towards women amongst young men than there was 50 years ago.

I have to agree partially with what CecilieRose is saying
I'm mid 40's but when I was younger men had to work far harder to gain and keep your attention. Ghosting wasn't a thing and to be frank women on a whole had far more self esteem and self respect. They certainly were not putting up with the crap that seems to be taken by the masses on this site anyway
I think part of the problem is internet dating, before you met someone at work or a bar in most cases so they actually had to make an effort to approach someone. Now it is a case of swiping and so many women's self esteem is on the floor they seem to be overly flattered if someone does swipe and accept someone who doesn't tick the majority of their boxes. The power has almost entirely reverted back into the guys hands.
Sleeping with someone early doesn't help as people only seem to value now what they have to work hard for, as everything comes so easily.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@CecilieRose

I'm not frothing, I'm just posting on a forum. Just like you. If anyone is frothing it's you - chill out, you sound ever so angry with women in general.

As I said, it's sad you view sex the way you do and either ill informed or disingenuous not to acknowledge all the negative things that came with the perceived 'upper hand' you mention women have lost. [/quote]
I'm not angry with women. I'm angry with people who don't seem to understand how humans work. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the literal definition of insanity.

@crochetmonkey74

I'm saying that if all women decided to stop having casual sex, we'd very likely find that men upped their game considerably

What about the roughly 2000 years before now when women didn't have casual sex and were still raped/ beaten/ forced into marriage/ shamed for being pregnant out of marriage etc etc etc
Men haven't got worse cos women have sex with them

👏👏👏

Thank you! As if the 'upper hand' of not getting ghosted was worth the years of being unable to be financially independent, be educated, have a career, seek independent legal support, own our own homes...

Women's rights and standard of living are famously great in countries where casual sex is forbidden, after all 🙄

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I dont think you're getting what @CecilieRose is saying. She isnt saying she likes it or that its normal. Shes saying that sadly, this is still how a lot of men operate.