Parents with DPs - how much time do you get together?

[MoonbeamsGlittering]

We have two kids (aged 6 and 2) and both work full-time, so I know that I shouldn't expect to get lots of time together with all of that going on. However, I realised recently that we were probably only getting about 1 hour per week (split into 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there) when we were spending time together without the kids. My wife tends to go to bed (to go to sleep) at the same time as the kids and wants to sleep for 9 or 10 hours. It makes it very hard to get any time with her.

I've mentioned this and she has tried to have lunch with me once per week and maybe have a bit more time in the evening, but it seems like she feels that I am asking for a bit much. I realised that I don't know how much time other parents of young kids get to spend together. Any input is very welcome!

Are you doing your share of the household chires, admin, child care, homework, taxiing, clubs play dates etc.

If you think you can do more, do it, help her and she may be less knackered

We have 4 children, 11, 9, 7 and 10 weeks.

We both work full time (although I’m currently on maternity leave.

Prior to the baby we’d spend every evening together from around 7.30pm when the kids went to bed. We’d then go to bed around 10.30pm together.

Now we have the baby in all honesty it’s not much different. The older kids still go up to bed around 7.30pm, the baby will by this point in the evening be settled and happy to lie in his bouncer, or in the crib downstairs. Then we get time to sit together, cuddle, chat etc, before we take the baby upstairs around 9.30pm and then we head up around 10.30pm again.

DC in bed by 8pm. So then we stay up until 11ish.

But youngest is primary age now. So I'm not as tired as when they were smaller and I don't need to worry my sleep will be interrupted.

Also my husband is great around the house and with DC so i don't have jobs to worry about once DC are in bed so we can just chill in the evenings.

It's not unreasonable to spend an hour or two together in the evening.

You both work full time so presumably you're doing 50% each of everything at home? 50% of nights with wakeful children? 50% each of early wake ups? 50% each of bath, bedtime, and breakfast? One lie in each per week? 50% each of all grocery shopping, food preparation, cleaning up after meals, general housework and cleaning? 50% each of taking and fetching children from school, nursery, any clubs or playing at friends the older one does? 50% of doctors and dentists appointments with the children? 50% each actively engaging with the children outside working hours?

Do both of you sometimes take the children - both children - out for a solid chunk of 3-4 hours so the other can relax (not so the other can do housework)? As well as doing things as a family of 4 sometimes?

Are you?

Or is your wife doing 80-95% of everything children and house and food related?

If you're genuinely sharing everything equally then it'd be normal at those ages for parents to have a couple of hours in the evening together after the children are in bed.

That's what we had until eldest was too old to go to bed before us regularly (for us parent enforcement of bedtime ends at age 16, lots of other people stop earlier. Our teen children tend to stay up with us in the living room rather than hang out in their rooms in the evening).

If you're not getting evening together after the children are in bed then I'd question whether your wife is exhausted from doing all the chores and childcare and night waking and early get ups while you sot about waiting for her to move seamlessly from attending to children to attending to you, without any time for herself. If so no bloody wonder she'd rather go to bed early by herself.

However if you genuinely, truly do 50% of everything non work related - all the house, food and child stuff -then there's something else wrong. Sleeping for 9-10 hours if genuinely not overloaded suggests depression or wanting to avoid you, tbh.

We put the dc to bed at 8 and go to bed at 11.
We usually have a drink. Watch netflix. Chat a bit. Plan our home stuff (we're renovating)

Even when the dc were small (babies) I never went to bed till 11. But I like my evenings.
You should have bit of time together though. It's so important.

As PP have flagged - are you doing your fair share in terms of the kids and the family?

I can imagine going to bed at the same time as the kids periodically when they're that young but regularly going to bed early and needing to sleep for 9-10 hours a night could mean there is an underlying problem - it could be physical or it could be depression or it could be avoidance.

Your children are young but not babies therefore it should be possible to manage more time together than 1 hour a week, particularly in the evenings.

At some level, it sounds like she is exhausted by the demands made on her and - in the nicest possible way - doesn't want to have to deal with you also. I say that because I have been guilty of that in relation to my DH at certain periods. I've felt completely overstretched by what is going on and just haven't wanted to give him time and attention also. But that actually isn't okay - the couple relationship needs some maintenance too, but it does depend on you doing your fair share (which actually my DH was doing) and perhaps she is doing more than she actually needs to do.

@baileys6904 @UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme @Dery I have always done at least 50% with kids/house and recently it's probably more like 60%.

I do 95% of early wakeups and 95% of night-time wakeups, to try to protect her sleep. Sometimes I'm up with them for 2 hours before she gets up. I take kids out for 2 hours sometimes at the weekend. She says that she doesn't want me doing too much more than half, so I try to let her choose the times and activities that she would like to do, like she usually sits with them for breakfasts and lunches, and she makes most dinners while I watch the kids.

Do you do 50% of the baths, dressing, teethbrushing, cleaning, laundry, shopping, financial admin , banking, birthday and Christmas shopping, extended family contact, school/childcare admin and dropoffs/pickups?
Who changes the bedsheets, rings plumbers/sparkies/other? Who organises date nights and babysitters? Is all that 50%?
If you do 50% of all that then there is a problem. If not, that's why she needs so much sleep.
Have you talked to her about this issue yet?

We spend every evening together from about 9-10.30 before we go to bed. Usually we watch an episode of a series and chat for a bit. We have a disabled child aged 9 at home (and an adult dd at university). I get up at 5.30am with the 9 year old every day and have health issues myself. We never go out together as a couple; we have no family and no babysitters. We are quite happy though; we just accept this as normal for us!

"@baileys6904 @UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme @Dery I have always done at least 50% with kids/house and recently it's probably more like 60%.

I do 95% of early wakeups and 95% of night-time wakeups, to try to protect her sleep. Sometimes I'm up with them for 2 hours before she gets up. I take kids out for 2 hours sometimes at the weekend. She says that she doesn't want me doing too much more than half, so I try to let her choose the times and activities that she would like to do, like she usually sits with them for breakfasts and lunches, and she makes most dinners while I watch the kids."

This doesn't sound right, OP. I mean, it's great that you're spending so much time with your children - that will reap huge dividends in the future because you're establishing such a close relationship with them. You're also establishing the model of a very hands-on and involved father which will be making your children feel very secure and instilling healthy expectations in them for their roles in future decades if and when they become parents (impossible to imagine now of course :)).

But based on what you're describing, she really shouldn't be as exhausted as she appears to be. Have you and/or she considered the possibility of underlying health issues or depression? Sleeping 9-10 hours every day would generally be a sign of an underlying problem, or that, for some reason, she is avoiding you. You don't have to answer this question but I'm wondering whether there is any sexual intimacy between you or whether she might be trying to avoid sex.

MoonbeamsGlittering if you genuinely do, as you say, do 50-60% of everything then something is wrong either with your wife's health (physical health wise thyroid issues or anemia are incredibly common in women of childbearing age - both cause exhaustion, and both are treatable - but there are lots of other possibilities, mental health wise of course depression is a very common problem which also results in wanting to sleep all the time in many people, and in disengagement from emotional relationships - again of course its treatable) or with your relationship.

I'm still wondering whether although you think you do 50-60% its only 50-60% of some things and none of the cleaning toilets, changing beds, laundry (collecting it up, carrying it down, drying and putting away not just shoving it in the washing machine), and sorting the evening chaos - cleaning up the kitchen after dinner, putting toys away if not done with the children before they go to bed, actually settling the children to sleep). If your wife is doing grunt work while you cherry pick the nice bits then 50% of the cuddly and fun stuff obviously isn't enough.

However only you know whether you really do 50% of the grunt work as well as the nice stuff.

If you do then you need to have a conversation with your wife - maybe schedule another lunch out of the house while the children are at school/ childcare as you say you've done before. Let her know that you're worried about her health and/ or your relationship and ask what's on her mind. Try to get to the bottom of whether she feels exhausted and if so encourage her to see the GP for blood tests (to rule out thyroid problems, low iron, diabetes) or to talk about antidepressants and perhaps CBT if she thinks she might be depressed.

If she's unhappy with your relationship and avoiding you rather than feeling unwell its best you give her the chance to say that and discuss whether to try couples counseling or actively work on the relationship or indeed split amicably and work on a good relationship as co-parents instead of as a couple.

@Dery She says that she has always needed lots of sleep. I have wondered whether it might be a health issue but she says not. We do have sex about once a week but I feel pressure from her for that to be quick each time as well. I guess I'm wondering whether she really is this tired or whether she just isn't that interested in being with me. I think she gets much much more time on her own to rest (even more counting the sleep time) than the amount of time she chooses to spend with me.

I do talk to her about this and she says that she wants to be with me but just doesn't have much time. I feel like she's saying that most couples with fairly young kids get virtually no time together, like I'm the one who is expecting too much, which is why I started this thread.

I don't know how much of this is just the sleep mismatch (I'm fine on 6 hours of sleep). If both people in a couple were like me, it would be much easier to get time. If both people in a couple were like her, I'm not sure how they would even cover the kid/house/job time between them, let alone have any time together.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme I do 60% of the overall kid time, including grunt work. I try to let her do the cherry-picking. I do virtually all of the night wake-up work and early morning work and bottom-wiping! She does most of the meals, because those are the parts that she chooses.

I have talked with her about it. She is adamant that it's not a health problem. She is stressed with work and she finds the kids quite tiring when she does have them. She just seemed to be saying that having 1/2/3 hours per week together is normal for parents with young kids and that I had unrealistic expectations. She has tried to make a bit more time for me, but it feels like then I'm another obligation that she's trying to juggle. It's hard for me to get the balance between giving her time and space versus letting her know that I feel sad that we get so little time.

What do you mean by "grunt work" though?

Are you saying you actually do 60% of all the stuff that's detailed above in my post and the post by @UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme?

(If you do, would you like to move to Australia and marry me? )

Your posts indicate that night wakes, early mornings, and bottom wiping are above and beyond, and that your wife "chooses" to sleep and cook.... but who does all the housework and associated cleaning?

@Grimsknee I always felt that it was important for both of us to feel like we were doing a fair amount, so I always made an effort to make sure that I was doing at least 50% and usually more, and in recent weeks I've ramped it up to 60% or more to see if it helps. We have a cleaner who does 3 hours every 2 weeks. I basically look after the kids whenever my wife wants me to, for as long as she wants me to. I encourage her to tell me if she's spent time doing admin or birthday presents or that kind of thing, and then I'll try to take the kids for even longer to balance it. In my mind, all that admin stuff counts at least as much as actually watching the kids, so I always try to say "OK, if you've spent half an hour on that today then let me watch them for longer so that you get more rest time." Sometimes now she says that I'm trying to take the kids for too long, but I want to make sure that I'm doing what I can to help to reduce her tiredness.

The article at this link suggests that 7-9 hours is a reasonable sleep target for adults so I guess it depends how often she's sleeping for more than 9 hours:
www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/oversleeping-bad-for-your-health

The situation may be exacerbated because you only need 6 hours of sleep a night but even with adults who need 7-8 hours of sleep a night, it isn't normal for parents with children aged 2 and 6 to only have 1-3 hours together per week. They would normally have more time than that. The thing is that usually the evenings would be when the parents catch up with each other (even if only for an hour or so) and she is writing off your evenings by choosing to go to bed when your children do. Unless your wife has an undisclosed underlying health issue, it does, at some level, sound avoidant and indicative of general feelings of being overwhelmed by the demands on her.

@Grimsknee Looking at your specific list again: I do most of the school drop-offs/pickups, dressing and teethbrushing. She does most of the presents and financial admin. Other stuff is a mixture. We have different strong points (she's better at longer-term planning and presents; I'm better at jumping out of bed at 2am prepared to look after kids for as long as necessary, and dealing with gross nappy/toilet cleanups) but I try to figure out how much time we each actually do overall and I try to do 60% these days.

@Dery You said that you had something like this with your DH in the past. Is there anything that he could have done differently back then? Yes, I think that she feels overwhelmed sometimes. I'm trying to help by doing extra kid stuff and I try not to make things worse by asking for too much time with her, but it's hard sometimes to decide how much to let her know that I often feel rejected, versus how much to keep it to myself so that I'm not just another demand on her time and attention.

It's obvious you've got no idea of the mental and physical workload your wife is doing.

How many loads of laundry a week do you wash, dry, and put away?
How many times a week do you clean the toilet?
How many times a day do you clear the kitchen?

@Grimsknee Isn't that a bit harsh? I'm trying to do more than half in order to help her, and I invite her to let me take the kids as much as needed, especially any time she's been doing something kid/admin related while I've been watching them. Also, when I said "financial admin" I didn't mean that she does general household finances - we each look after our own finances and I do most of the school/nursery finance stuff. Mainly I meant that she does food orders and nappy orders and that kind of thing (and I take kids for extra time and I pay her half the money.)

@Grimsknee We both do washing. She probably does a bit more, but I try to compensate by doing other things. We have a cleaner who cleans the toilet. I clear up the kitchen every day after dinner. I tidy up the living room in the evening.

MoonbeamsGlittering who does all the grocery shopping, grocery putting away, children's clothing and shoes and other necessities buying, liaison with nursery and school and children's healthcare, all the laundry including putting away and all the cleaning between cleaner visits (3 hours per fortnight doesn't cover the cleaning, you can't clean the toilets and kitchen surfaces and floors only once every two weeks)?

You say she's complaining that you take the children more - is that because you'd rather take the children than clean the kitchen after dinner, do the laundry or the grocery shopping?

I absolutely appreciate that you're pulling your weight with the children and that's more than a lot of fathers we read about on MN do - good on you. However most people would rather take children to the park than clean the kitchen and bathroom, change all the beds and do the laundry. Are you sure you're taking them out so ahe can rest and not so she can clean the toilets?

Clearly something isn't quite right, but it's hard to pin down what if it isn't health, mental health, or resentment.