Parents with DPs - how much time do you get together?

[MoonbeamsGlittering]

We have two kids (aged 6 and 2) and both work full-time, so I know that I shouldn't expect to get lots of time together with all of that going on. However, I realised recently that we were probably only getting about 1 hour per week (split into 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there) when we were spending time together without the kids. My wife tends to go to bed (to go to sleep) at the same time as the kids and wants to sleep for 9 or 10 hours. It makes it very hard to get any time with her.

I've mentioned this and she has tried to have lunch with me once per week and maybe have a bit more time in the evening, but it seems like she feels that I am asking for a bit much. I realised that I don't know how much time other parents of young kids get to spend together. Any input is very welcome!

@smoko I'm not sure sex is the OPs focus as much as quality time together having read all his posts?

OP I think for some posters you could produce the most detailed schedule of everything you do, list out every household chore and it's split and you'd still find some who will say 'ahhhh but you haven't mentioned xyz so she must be doing all of that'

There was a post I recall similar to this earlier in the year where the poster equally got asked again and again if they really, really did everything they said they did-the poster then clarified they were a woman in a same sex marriage and surprisingly the questions and insinuations stopped and focus shifted to solving the problem at hand.

To your question. I, like other posters spend a good few hours an evening with my DH. We have one DC (2) and I'm currently 30 weeks pregnant and I do also have an underlying health condition which means I suffer from tiredness.

But I can cope with 7-8 hours a night. So DC in bed by 7.30 latest and I'll probably go up 9.30-10ish. My DH comes up about an hour later. We both WFH together and eat lunch and do lunch dog walk together 3/4 times a week.

Weekends are split lie ins one day each and we are lucky that DC still naps so have lunch together too.

We are also lucky to have parents who babysit so once a month we have a night to ourselves and will try and have dinner out or cinema etc. Or if DC has been taxing, just go to bed early together and sleep!

I anticipate this time will be reduced when DC2 arrives but once they are reliably set in a bedtime routine, we should get our evenings back.

Occasionally I'll be quite tired and decide to go to bed earlier and DH will often come up with me and watch something in bed while I doze which I quite like.

One thing to consider-I'm more of an introvert than my DH and I lived alone for a few years before we moved in together. DH has never really lived alone. I really value 'me time' and I've found covid has meant I have a lot less time to myself due to DH wfh and us being a bit more cautious about going out to the pub etc. 'Me Time' doesn't necessarily mean a spa day or anything fancy. It is often simply an evening to myself to watch trash tv, read a book, have some space to relax... I do this once a week but sometimes need it a bit more, especially if I'm feeling touched out by a clingy 2 year old. I wonder if your DW has felt the same since covid and her going to sleep is simply spending time on her own for an hour or two an evening?

Either way, your summary earlier of possible actions seems spot on. But I think this thread backs up that, regardless of the reason, only getting 2-4 hours of quality time together a week is unusual.

To add, this year we went on a family holiday. We were lucky to have people step in and take DC each morning. I got into the habit is sleeping in til 8.30. I was having about 10 hours sleep. I found that the more sleep I had, the more my body got used to it and really 'needed' it. I was getting tired in the evenings.

It was like sleep breeds the need for more sleep. I struggled when we came back to re-adjust. But I know I don't need that amount as day to day I am fine without it. But it took about two weeks to wean myself back down to less. I wonder if it is similar in that your DW is used to that amount of sleep rather than needing it?

Eh. OP won't answer direct questions such as "how many loads of laundry a week do you sort, wash, dry, sort, and put away". He avoids responding to those kinds of direct queries, which strongly suggests that he's likely not doing his share around the home.

I guess it's always possible that we have here a rare specimen: a man who works like a wife, doesn't tell anyone who'll listen all about how much he does around the home, and is taken for granted by his spouse.

But Occam's razor (plus his responses on this thread) says wife is flat-out exhausted, fed up with telling him she needs him to step up, and now acting totally checked-out.

@Grimsknee I'm not trying to avoid direct questions. We run about 4 loads of laundry per week. I do most of the hanging-out-to-dry. My wife does most of the folding/putting-away. I'm happy to try to answer your questions, but it takes time to answer question after question, and I often don't have much time because I am genuinely spending a lot of time looking after the kids! I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I genuinely do more than half. Either you can believe me, or you can decide that I'm lying or deluded. If you're convinced that I'm lying or deluded then why bother trying to engage with me? I consider myself to be a feminist too. I'm not sure whether you'll believe that either.

@PrincessNutNuts @Moomarre That's an interesting idea about asking at the nursery about babysitting - I hadn't thought of that. I can try to do that. (Taking days off together is tricky because we need most of our annual leave to cover school holidays.)

@BlusteringBoobies Thanks for your input - yes, I think my wife likes some time alone like that too, so it's fine if she wants to spend some evenings on her own. She certainly seems in the habit of lots of sleep, but I'm not sure whether she would find that she was fine on less after a while, or not.

@Grimsknee My DH does probably more than half of everything and since being pregnant he does a lot more than half. He does all the house admin, works longer hours than me, takes shared time off when DC is ill, buys presents for his half of the family, puts washing away and sorts after I've washed and does half the cooking plus nursery drop offs. They do exist!

And I'm completely at a loss on where you've got this from his posts But Occam's razor (plus his responses on this thread) says wife is flat-out exhausted, fed up with telling him she needs him to step up, and now acting totally checked-out.

Why invest time asking for advice if he's checked out? Reading the schedule he's posted and the amount of sleep, I can't see how she's exhausted unless an undiagnosed health condition? And he's said several times that he's engaged with her on what more he can do.

He has also spent almost every post answering questions posed about the nth degree of detail on what he does around the house so perhaps he's a bit fed up with it and would rather engage in practical advice? If you don't believe him then just say you don't believe him rather than constantly trying to catch him out 🤷🏻‍♀️

I believe you, OP! (I have a husband who does 50% - including mental load. These men exist, although I do have many examples among my friends of those who don’t pull their weight). We have a toddler and a newborn and we spend 2-3 hours together every evening.

I need more sleep than my husband, but can and do get by on 6ish at the mo.

I do have a friend who says she really struggles unless she gets 9 hours a night. I do think there are perhaps some people who are made that way. I have another friend who’s content with 4 (like Maggie thatcher!). Which enables her to have a very full life!

But even if she does need a lot of sleep, I still think you need to find a way to sort this with you wife, as I can totally understand that you need more time together (and I say that as someone who also enjoys a lot of alone time)

Good luck

@Acrobatsdoingflips Thanks! Yes, I think there must be a lot of variation in how much sleep some people need. I remember the Margaret Thatcher example as well. I'm impressed that you manage to spend so much time together as a couple with a toddler and a newborn!

@Grimsknee I don't think I fully responded to your post about having a conversation with my wife. I agree that it's good to have those kinds of conversations. I like talking about these things but she doesn't want to put too much time into talking. I'm trying to find a balance between trying to talk with her, and trying to give her time and space. I try to do extra things that I can see need doing without having to be told, but I accept that I may not see everything that she sees.

I don't see you as some kind of angry feminist (and, by the way, I think it's totally reasonable to be an angry feminist, given all of the horrible things that many men have done to many women throughout history and still do today) - I see you as having a different viewpoint from mine, but I am here to learn, so I am happy to listen to what you have to say and I will try to respond. I may not always find the time to respond to every point, but if you want to give me a few more direct questions then I can try to answer.

@smoko You are right that I would like sex to last longer as well, but that's kind of a subcategory of generally having more time together. Sex has mostly been focussing on what she wants for about 10 minutes and then she orgasms and then she wants me to hurry up and finish. If that's what she wants then fair enough, but it would be nice to do things her way sometimes and my way sometimes, rather than almost always her way. (Disclaimer: of course if she doesn't want to have sex for longer then we don't; I don't want her to do anything she doesn't want to do; I just hoped she might want to focus on me more often just like I focus on her often.)
I mentioned toothbrushing because it was one of the long list of specific house/childcare activities that other posters asked about, to check whether I really know what's involved in looking after kids and a house.

You need to get out together as a couple- either by taking a day off together or by dint of a babysitter. It sounds like your DW has effectively switched off from you, but we won't know if it's the monotony of childrearing/depression or she's just not into you anymore.

[quote MoonbeamsGlittering]**@PrincessNutNuts* @Moomarre* That's an interesting idea about asking at the nursery about babysitting - I hadn't thought of that. I can try to do that. (Taking days off together is tricky because we need most of our annual leave to cover school holidays.)

@BlusteringBoobies Thanks for your input - yes, I think my wife likes some time alone like that too, so it's fine if she wants to spend some evenings on her own. She certainly seems in the habit of lots of sleep, but I'm not sure whether she would find that she was fine on less after a while, or not.[/quote]
You're very lucky.

Our annual leave doesn't come close to covering 12 weeks.

After reading the entire thread, I have a suggestion to try.

1. Since you are up with the DC first, would it be possible to do the morning routine entirely? Get them up and ready for school. Make everyone breakfast, clean up, and then take them to school?

1. Do the laundry from start to finish. Gather up clothes, towels, bedclothes, sheets, wash, dry, fold, and put away.

Would you be willing to take those 2 jobs in their entirety and see how it goes?

You say:
Your wife dosnt want to talk to you so you leave her to have space instead of talking about your issues or about anything. Do you ever talk to each other? Not including talking about who's picking up dc etc?
Your wife wants sex to be quick and purely for the end result then its over. She doesn't want to spend time pleasing you sexually.
Your wife goes to bed with the kids and won't talk about why.
Your wife spends time alone at weekends while you tag team with the kids and very occasionally spend time as a family.

Sorry but regardless of household chores and dinners out I think your wife has checked out and your marriage is over. I feel awful saying it as it must be so hurtful. Other than raising children together there does not seem to be any relationship between you at all. You don't talk, don't spend time together, don't have meaningful sex. Not really sure what you do have as a couple. And really not sure if there is anything you can do alone to fix this either.

@rookiemere You're probably right but it can be difficult to do.

@PrincessNutNuts Sorry, I didn't explain that in the best way. Our total annual leave is also less than the 12/13 weeks that we would need. I'm actually not sure how we'll get through next summer. We got through this summer because I quit my job to look after the kids for a while (and I still paid 50% for everything and used up some savings.)

@RantyAunty I do as much with DCs as I can in the morning. My wife just gives them breakfast while she eats too. I can't do all 5 school runs because I wouldn't be able to cover my work hours - I have to do more work on some days to balance the 3/4 days when I do take kids in. Yes, I'd be willing to try doing the whole laundry task if it helps.

@Arren12 I was actually wondering the same thing about 6 months ago. I said to her that I thought she might not be that interested in being with me any more, and that if she wanted to break up then I wouldn't try to be difficult about it or anything. (I said that last bit partly after reading Mumsnet threads about men who try to make things really awkward if women try to end the relationship.) She seemed shocked and said that she did want to be with me but that she'd just been really busy with work. After that it seemed like we got a bit more time together for a few weeks, but then things slipped back again. Just in the last few days we've had a bit more time together again but I don't know if that trend will continue or if it'll soon slip back again.
I was thinking about this today - in real life I guess it's not as clear-cut as "either you're really into someone, or you don't want to be with them any more". There's a whole grey area in between, like "my husband is a decent guy, he's good with the kids, I don't dislike him, but I'm not that interested in having loads of time with him either." I'm wondering about starting a thread about that now.

Ok, I see what you mean about the school runs.

How about doing 3 of them? Make your wife and DC breakfast.
My thinking is to give her a great start to her day that she can just come downstairs, have breakfast with you and the DC as a family and enjoy.
It's a wonderful feeling to know your husband has your back in that way.

@RantyAunty I do 3 or 4 of the school runs. I do make DCs breakfast sometimes - it depends on timings of who gets up when. Making breakfast for my wife would be tricky for two reasons: I generally don't know when she's going to get up until right when it happens (and she won't want coffee/oatmeal to go cold), and I would have to chase around the 2-year-old while also making my wife's food. But maybe I could ask her about it and possibly do it sometimes.

OP I don't think you need to start another thread - there's lots of useful information.

I'm wondering if she's depressed. I like my sleep too, but the length of time she's sleeping including an early evening nap seems excessive.

What do you want to do with this evening time together? How about watching a box set or something so that it's low expectations for her. That's what we tend to do most evenings- I'd hate to think we'd have to dedicate an evening to talking or giving each other massages or something.

@rookiemere I wasn't saying that she naps in the early evening (sorry if that was unclear) - that 6-7pm period is for her to relax and do whatever she likes.

Watching a box set could work. I do like having some time to talk as well, but she's not so keen. If you don't mind my asking: why wouldn't you want to dedicate an evening to talking?

Everyone saying it sounds like she's ill (physically or mentally), she might just genuinely need that much sleep!
When I was at uni with very very little demands, I slept 9-10hrs every night, 11pm until 9am unless I had an early lecture (once a week!). I wasn't depressed, over stretched or anything. I just went to bed at 11pm and woke up naturally at 9am.
If I could still do that now I would love it! I currently get around 8hrs a night, both kids usually sleep through and husband does most of the night wakings if they do get up. I'm always exhausted when we get up! And really slump in the afternoon and the early evening. She might just naturally need a lot of sleep.

@bluesky45 Thanks for your post. Yes, I figured that some people might really need as much sleep as that. It sounds like you're saying that you feel really tired a lot of the time. Do you sometimes wonder about trying to get more than 8hrs again? I guess the kids sleep for longer than 8hrs, so are you choosing time with DH over time sleeping?

@MoonbeamsGlittering I'd find the idea of a dedicated talking hour exhausting- particularly after a full day of working and looking after DCs, that's why date night usually involves going out somewhere so you can also talk about your dinner or the other diners. I guess you could try to recreate it with a takeaway once the DCs are in bed and a few glasses of wine.

Or maybe try one of the posh food deliveries developed during lockdown or we had great fun doing online wine tasting - actually much better to get tipsy in the comfort of your own house.

It also strikes me OP, that you're someone who enjoys analysing and discussing things, whereas your DW might not. Hence the box set suggestion as relaxing together with no expectations of heavy discussion or intimacy, could be beneficial.

@moonbeamsglittering yeah, I am trying to go to bed around 10pm now which would give me 9hrs sleep. But our kids go to bed around 8 or even 8:30, then I have usually have half an hour of jobs to do or sometimes me and DH eat after the kids have gone to bed so we cook and eat. And it's often 9pm by the time we sit down in the evening. We then have around one or 2 hrs together in the evening but it's not really quality time tbh. We watch TV, I do some admin things like ordering Christmas presents at the moment, sometimes it's birthdays, paying nursery bills, booking toddler classes, finding and ordering clothes they need etc. I do usually go up to bed around an hour before DH does though and we get around 1hr of time together as a couple e as Ch evening, sometimes we don't really talk and it's not quality time but it could be if we made that effort!

Another thing to think about might be if she's an introvert. I am, DH isn't. I read somewhere that introverts get their energy from being on their own whereas extroverts get their energy from other people.
I find after a difficult day with the DC (I'm at sahm mostly) that I find I just need quiet and to be on my own for a while to recharge. I can't even be bothered to chat to my DH and certainly not be touched after having 2 kids all over me all day.
I wonder if your DW just needs time to be on her own to recharge without anybody making any demands at all, even if it's 'nice' demands like simply having a chat.