Need to not message him

[toastedsandwiches]

My DP and I split up yesterday. I'm utterly and totally head over heels for him.
We've been together a year and get on so well. We've had some us and downs.
We've both been massively hurt in the past by other people and can be defensive because of this.
It took a lot for me to let my guard down and throw myself into the relationship, but I did.

We had plans and stuff to look forward to. We talked about living together and getting married down the line. He made me feel loved, and happy and smile. I laughed till I cried. I felt special and content. He gave me support and listened.
I supported him, I gave him my time and we were having an amazing time.
So much in common and couldn't bared to be apart.

Then I got tonsillitis, I went to bed the day before yesterday in the afternoon. I saw a notification on my phone he posted something on Facebook- a joke - aimed at me - nothing nasty - I responded.
He called me an hour later saying he was on the way around. He was livid - I hadn't replied to his text he sent at the same time as the Facebook post.

I hadn't seen the text.

He's broken up with me over it.

So am I a narcissist? Because I know they will all have their story about what I did wrong - their excuses. So am I any better?

NO! But a Narc leaves you feeling crazy & questioning yourself

Everyone has reasons for ending relationships, & those left can feel hard done by, that's just life... it's the whole package of abusive behaviour that makes them a Narc

Find a hobby you can do at home, something creative might be good because you'll have end results to be proud of... every time you can't sleep & your head is full of him, put that time into your new hobby to distract yourself ... I found this really helped me

I also wanted to say to a PP, that I disagree that there isn't a reason we attract/accept these sorts... people with healthy boundaries just don't put up with this shit & they'd never get a foot in the door... nuances of language can be clues to this that these sorts home in on

You're not a narcissist, OP. But it's super common for victims of narcissists to ask this about themselves. Because narcs make you feel crazy.

The fact that you are worried that you're a narcissist is a big clue that you're not one. But here are some more clues: Do you see people not as individuals but as a resource to be exploited? Do you only care about your own needs and no one else's? Do you love bomb people to draw them to you and then discard them when you get bored or they annoy you? Do you consider yourself better and more deserving than anyone else? Will you do anything to have power over other people, no matter who you hurt or what you damage? These are all narcissistic traits.

narcwise.com/2018/03/25/youre-not-narcissistic/

I don't think I understood the true meaning of "dodging a bullet" until I read your OP. My God the man is unhinged. I think you just saved yourself falling into a very controlling, unstable and abusive relationship. You will look back and see this as the moment you escaped.

people with healthy boundaries just don't put up with this shit & they'd never get a foot in the door

That's not the case. They give the illusion of love, and people "fall in love" before they see any signs that anything's wrong. These people are masters of disguise. Unless they are a bit thick, they don't let you see any red flags until they've drawn you right in.

You have to know that feeling you've met your soulmate is actually a red flag. That your first boundary should be against the feeling of joy and happiness that someone sees you and recognises you and loves and wants you for who you are.

That's not exactly easy, for anyone.

It's not about not having healthy boundaries, it's about wanting and believing you've met your soulmate. Most people believe that's possible, or they believe it when it seems to happen to them.

Some narcissists will deliberately target those with clear and healthy and strong boundaries, because they enjoy conning and duping those people even more. It's more of a 'win' for them to get someone to override their own boundaries and trust them. Then the devalue and discard is so much more fun.

I know you are not a narcissist, OP, because "Am I a narcissist?" or "I'm not blameless entirely" are things that a narcissist would never say. They don't question themselves, and they do believe they are entirely blameless. You're worrying whether he feels wretched because of you? Another sign you're not a narc. A narc would not even consider the possibility that you're feeling wretched because of him- nothing bad is because of him, your bad feelings are caused by your own mistakes, always.

My narc ex is the only person I've met in my entire life who was entirely unwilling to take responsibility for their actions or acknowledge any mistake of their own, ever. Even when he "apologised" for something, it was in a passive-aggressive manner ("I'm sorry you're upset AGAIN, it seems I'm a bad guy and I can do nothing but upset you all the time, it's too difficult to talk to you any more!") or shifting the blame back to me, bringing up something I'd done etc.

That's not the case. They give the illusion of love, and people "fall in love" before they see any signs that anything's wrong. These people are masters of disguise. Unless they are a bit thick, they don't let you see any red flags until they've drawn you right in.

Yes I get that, but I disagree, the too good to be true behaviour at the start is a huge red flag to suck you in, BUT healthy boundaries mean that "in love" or not, when the cracks start to show you know exactly where the line needs to be drawn & you don't accept the crap from them & it will be a short fling with you thinking they are fake AF at the end of it, not thinking "what did I do wrong to cause this" or believing their bull that it's your fault & making excuses for their bad behaviour... poor soul is damaged by x y z, I'll rescue them & get back the nice version of them again... healthy boundaries mean

On the surface I was a tough as old boots professional with my shit together & no need of a man, own house in london etc, nobody thought I'd be vulnerable to this, but I was because I didn't know where the line was as well as I thought & I was a fixer. Something I've seen with several friends too..including male friends ... this made me a target

Oops, lost some text there

I meant to add people with healthy boundaries don't believe in the fairy tale "soul mate" crap they are more realist about humans & relationships

Forgive me if this has already been covered OP, but, has he been, or, is he currently a drug user? I ask due to his paranoia x

people with healthy boundaries just don't put up with this shit & they'd never get a foot in the door

Tbh this is the sort of thing I meant when I said people can be quite blame-y to victims of narcissistic abuse. I heard a lot of stuff like that when I was in the thick of it and it didn't motivate me to want to work on improving my boundaries; instead, it just made me feel worse about myself, isolated me and kept me in the bad situation with the narc for longer because I thought other people would not be supportive to me. The whole point of narc abuse is that it already makes you question yourself, feel you're defective, broken, crazy, stupid, a bad person etc. and everything that's happening is because of your own flaws!

@RockinHorseShit

Oops, lost some text there

I meant to add people with healthy boundaries don't believe in the fairy tale "soul mate" crap they are more realist about humans & relationships

Women are groomed by society to believe in the "fairy tale soul mate crap" and to think that's what love is.

The fact is that some of these men are very good at creating the illusion of real and genuine feelings. They aren't going to give you a reason to suspect it's not real until you are invested. Women think, wow, I didn't ever really believe in all this true love stuff until I met him. They don't know about narcissists, they have no idea that someone could seem so genuine but actually be a total fake.

Then when the mask slips, women stay because they don't know that there is such a thing as a narcissist. They think this person who is so wonderful and perfect has a flaw, and that's okay, because no one's perfect, but their love is going to see it all through. The narc apologises or comes up with some reason or excuse. Maybe the woman is embarrassed because they've told friends and family about this wonderful man. Maybe they've invested money or helped in some other way. By this point, the woman is vulnerable.

Yes, lots of women have terrible boundaries and some women are co-dependant. But you can have good boundaries and a healthy sense of self, and a narcissist can still get in there and abuse. I'm not saying that women shouldn't think about their boundaries. I'm saying that it can happen to anyone, because it really can. Your only defence against narcissists is knowing that narcissists exist, and most people don't know that.

I was taken in by a narcissist and it wasn't my fault. I had no idea that such people existed. It wasn't my boundaries that were the problem. It was his behaviour. Now my boundaries ARE a problem because I know that people can seem completely genuine when they are not, and it's hard to trust anyone.

(Yes, women can be narcissists and men can be victims too.)

@ArdeaCinerea

people with healthy boundaries just don't put up with this shit & they'd never get a foot in the door

Tbh this is the sort of thing I meant when I said people can be quite blame-y to victims of narcissistic abuse. I heard a lot of stuff like that when I was in the thick of it and it didn't motivate me to want to work on improving my boundaries; instead, it just made me feel worse about myself, isolated me and kept me in the bad situation with the narc for longer because I thought other people would not be supportive to me. The whole point of narc abuse is that it already makes you question yourself, feel you're defective, broken, crazy, stupid, a bad person etc. and everything that's happening is because of your own flaws!

Yes. This happened to me, even with counsellors. They didn't understand how narcissistic abuse works. It breaks your boundaries and you end up feeling weak and isolated and like it's your fault, like you somehow invited or allowed it to happen. It does feel quite victim blame-y.

ANYONE can be the target of a narcisstic. If you have poor boundaries, they'll use that against you. If you have healthy boundaries, they'll use that against you. If you have any weakness, they'll use it. If you have a strength, they'll steal it, and then turn it into a weakness.

There is no one thing that makes someone vulnerable to a narcissist. Some of them will go for the strongest and most capable people, because that's more fun for them, they like a challenge. Some will go for weak and vulnerable people, because it's easier.

You are vulnerable if you don't know these people exist. Once you know they exist, you can spot them pretty easily most of the time.

I think it's easier in a way to look for your own shortcomings, to think that there was something you could have done differently. It gives you an illusion of control in a situation where the control has been almost entirely taken from you. But put the blame where it belongs. The person who abuses is the one at fault here.

@beastlyslumber

ANYONE can be the target of a narcisstic. If you have poor boundaries, they'll use that against you. If you have healthy boundaries, they'll use that against you. If you have any weakness, they'll use it. If you have a strength, they'll steal it, and then turn it into a weakness.

There is no one thing that makes someone vulnerable to a narcissist. Some of them will go for the strongest and most capable people, because that's more fun for them, they like a challenge. Some will go for weak and vulnerable people, because it's easier.

You are vulnerable if you don't know these people exist. Once you know they exist, you can spot them pretty easily most of the time.

I think it's easier in a way to look for your own shortcomings, to think that there was something you could have done differently. It gives you an illusion of control in a situation where the control has been almost entirely taken from you. But put the blame where it belongs. The person who abuses is the one at fault here.

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

@toastedsandwiches I really feel your pain, it's coming across in every post. You are not alone though, so many of us have been where you are and we understand, please don't blame yourself.

I would echo what other posters have said about education - that is what really helped me. I came out of a 13 year abusive marriage and did the Freedom Programme, but I didn't realise necessarily that he had been a Narcissist until I had a (much shorter!) relationship with one. I started counselling and it became apparent that both relationships were with Narcissists, just different types. The fact I got out of the second one within months showed that my boundaries were far far stronger and the impact on me that time was therefore minimal.

The thing with this kind of abuse is that you cannot believe that there are people out there genuinely capable of this 'evil'. The fact is that there are. Some are aware of their behaviour, the vast majority are not though - not that I am excusing it at all, but they aren't deliberately out there plotting, but this is a very real, very destructive disorder that makes them behave like this in order for them to function.

When you think of the good times, replace the times he said 'I love you' with 'I use you'. If he ever said 'I've never met anyone like you before', replace that with 'I've never used anyone like you before'. This is REALLY what they do, though they often don't see it like that. They aren't capable of real love, they create a facade of it, and, brutally, we fall in love with that facade. The love we feel is a reflection of what they have conjured up, and they get so much energy from that love mirrored back to them. They are emotional vampires. And you have done nothing wrong.

Please educate yourself - watch the HG Tudor videos online, they are amazingly insightful and truthful, you will have many 'A ha!' moments. Get a counsellor who specialises in Narcissistic Abuse. But, I would say the most important thing (which applies to anyone tbh) is to build a life for you that doesn't mean you need anyone else in it for validation and happiness....then if you meet someone amazing then great, but if not, then great. You will be less vulnerable as a result to anyone then - whether just general time waster or a malignant narcissist, or anyone else in between.

And practically speaking - if you are insured on his car/have a spare key - I'd just move it to somewhere else in the road?

Tbh this is the sort of thing I meant when I said people can be quite blame-y to victims of narcissistic abuse. I heard a lot of stuff like that when I was in the thick of it and it didn't motivate me to want to work on improving my boundaries; instead, it just made me feel worse about myself, isolated me and kept me in the bad situation with the narc for longer because I thought other people would not be supportive to me. The whole point of narc abuse is that it already makes you question yourself, feel you're defective, broken, crazy, stupid, a bad person etc. and everything that's happening is because of your own flaws!

@ArdeaCinerea

I'm so sorry you felt like that about people trying to be helpful

How can it be victim blaming though when vulnerability to this sort of shit & skewed boundaries isn't the victims fault, it comes from childhood & sometimes it's not even the victims parents fault, but a reaction to dealing with harsh life blows making them emotionally unavailable or parentifying the child in some way.

I'm so sorry you felt that to be criticism though. I'm not actually sure how I would have felt myself if friends had said it to me at the time I was in the thick of an EA relationship, that wasn't going to happen though when I later realised he had manipulated the friends who would have spoken up out of my life.

I took myself off to counselling as I was so broken by his behaviour, especially after we split & police & even some friends didn't believe things he was doing. I even questioned myself over waking up to my furniture moved around & thought I must be sleepwalking as it was all just so nuts. It wasn't as I found a foot print in the dust I left on a windowsill that I knew he could climb up to & it was obvious he was somehow getting it open. That counselling was a revelation & a game changer, as it has been for others I know. I never took it to mean I was broken & it was my fault. Just that he was predatory & fucked up & followed a script like every other ex mentioned on this thread & I was vulnerable to being a target

“Some are aware of their behaviour, the vast majority are not though - not that I am excusing it at all, but they aren't deliberately out there plotting, but this is a very real, very destructive disorder that makes them behave like this in order for them to function.”

This is true. For some, the disordered thinking is so intrinsic that they genuinely cannot see past the end of their own nose. Any issue that does not prioritise their needs and preferences is viewed as an act of aggression…an attack in which they are they are being stripped of that which they are entitled to; their own way and the right to control.
They then become the victim of your negligence and lack of care and that makes them very angry. It’s not because you have a valid point of view…it’s because you hate them.

Not many of them ever fully understand that they are the perpetrator.

Oh the waves of being strong and determined and then so low are awful. It's a physical ache in my heart.

I have written a list of all the positive things I have in my life - things I'd forgotten as I was in a vacuum of him. I'd started to get so negative too and I have always prided myself on being a positive person. Seeing all the best in life.

Just last week I said to him about how each day I'm grateful to be out of my DA relationship before him and he said
'Oh not to do with me? I'll remember that.'

I need to remember what I have and not what he said we would have had.

But the wave of sadness is debilitating and crushing.

So right I think of the other reasons we rowed.
Because he thought I rolled my eyes one time.
Refusing to get my name right - and knowing.
Sulking for days when he thought I found another man attractive.
Punishing me for my past relationships- despite his having vastly more.
Dumping me for asking him if it was ok if I wore shorts - the same ones I wore when we met.
Saying I was vain for having videos or selfies in my phone - not even posted, where his sm is loads of him.
Getting angry and nearly storming out of the house when he thought I was being sarcastic. - I wasn't.
Going through my phone and questioning everything- and when I explain or even when I explain unprompted- I didn't ask - you don't have to tell me.
If I told a story or something had happened I'd start and he'd tell me 'hurry up get to the point' straight away.
He got angry about a sex dream about me.
He'd get cross if I told him about stress at work. He ask and when I said he'd get cross.
He picked apart my friends if I ever said anything he perceived as negative.
When I finished work early one day and went home 3 as opposed to 4. He said you're not very reliable are you doing as you say. When I said I went home for the dog - he said He was just joking.
I sent him a meme about love he didn't understand- he got so angry.
He said he wasn't stressed about clothes I wore - a big thing of my ex - when first started dating - but when I got comments - from a woman in a shop for example- I have those boots they look better on you kind of thing. He then started calling them slut welly's (they're not).
He said I used long words that he doesn't get.
Telling me to Fuck off when he was angry.
The whole 4 days of being on codeine and pushing me away.
Always biting at me on a Tuesday and being short tempered.

Out of interest, do you have an equally long list of kind, caring, solicitous things he has done?

You are literally in a EA brain chemistry drug like withdrawal stage, unfortunately that can be tough rollercoaster, but it will get much easier ... it wasn't around when I went through this, but I'm wondering if some good quality CBD oil might help you through it.

This explains it from the link below...

Toxic versus Normal Relationships
The neurobiological changes that take place for victims of abuse are likely similar to those within the breakup phase of a non-abusive relationship. When any of us fall in love and connect with someone new, the neurochemistry of the reward system responds to establish this bond. In circumstances of abuse, the brain likely has the same attachment that anyone would have toward someone they love. However, for victims of abuse, the one they love is not safe and the relationship is not stable.
What happens neurobiologically in a toxic union is not much different from what happens in a normal relationship. The main difference is that given that our brain is extremely responsive to what is happening in our environment, it releases chemicals in reaction to the toxic partner's behavior. If he/she pulls away or behaves poorly, there is a reaction that someone in a "normal relationship" would not experience. This is also true of neurochemistry such as endogenous opioids, dopamine, and corticotropin releasing factor.

Oops... link

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/neurosagacity/201701/the-brain-can-work-against-abuse-victims

The glimpses of your story that you're giving here sound horrific, @RockinHorseShit , I'm very sorry that you went through this and glad you are on the other side of it.

However, this:
How can it be victim blaming though when vulnerability to this sort of shit & skewed boundaries isn't the victims fault, it comes from childhood & sometimes it's not even the victims parents fault, but a reaction to dealing with harsh life blows making them emotionally unavailable or parentifying the child in some way.

is actually victim blaming because it focuses on the victim's shortcomings (faulty parenting? skewed boundaries? ) and implies they have some flaw that made it easier for them to be abused, and if only they hadn't had it...they wouldn't have been abused!

But that's not how the world works. Victim blaming is a form of comforting ourselves that if we "do things right", bad stuff is not going to happen to us (or, not going to happen again), bad people will not hurt us, and so on. I think it is a form of deluding ourselves, actually. We can't control the universe or other people's actions, and we can't make ourselves completely impervious to abuse.

My childhood was fine, actually. But I do have vulnerabilities, because everyone has vulnerabilities. Sharing your vulnerabilities with another human being is an integral part of being in a relationship, it can't be done otherwise. The narc is not the only person with whom I've ever shared mine, but he was the only one who used them against me, so I'm now comfortable concluding that having vulnerabilities was not the problem. He was the problem.

He was warm and caring
He was encouraging and made me feel special
He was charming and treated everyone he met so nicely and kindly
He told me I was beautiful
He'd do little jobs around the house, unprompted
He'd never let me do things without helping
He'd insist I make decisions for myself about how and what I wanted to do
He would buy me little gifts he knew I'd like - got no reason
He'd consult me on everything
He'd listen to me moan about stuff
He'd ask about my day and listen properly
He was encouraging me to see my family and friends and always funny with them
He tell me how intelligent I am
He'd ask my opinion on things and listen to my opinion
He made no judgment on my sleep walking - due to DA from my ex
He made me stand tall when I saw my ex and told me to never look down
He told me I should never lower my head to anyone as I was worth so much more
He told me I wasn't one in a million I was once in a lifetime
He asked me to marry him
He said he was proud to be with me
He said I made him happy
He told me he was contented and felt special
He said I was brave and capable
He said he learnt so much from me
He said I didn't deserve anyone to make feel so bad like my ex
He said I was the kindest person he had ever met

@FetchezLaVache just off the top of my head

I couldn't watch the HG Tudor videos - they were too triggering for me. (He is a narc and explains his methods - one of which was using music to create the association with him - there was so much music I couldn't listen to).

Whoever upthread says that they always sign off texts and every conversations wtih I love you. Yes.

And yes to leaving the car deliberately. Mine left a huge dining table at mine. He had written his name on the bottom (I didn't discover that) - told me he didn't need it. But every time he contacted me, kept asking about the bloody table. I sold it on Ebay and bought a new one.