Fallen out with whole family.

[PoppleZopple]

Hi. My mum is ill, I have a sister & a brother. We are all arguing & I just have to accept that this is it, don't I? I'm now completely on my own with my children, my siblings are no longer part of the picture. I'm nearly 40.

I feel so sad. We never saw each other all the time but special occasions, or if somebody needed help, house move etc. I think it was a fairly standard sibling relationship really.

But I'm still going to miss them.

I don't know what I want with this post really, just somebody to talk to. Does anybody want to talk? I've been crying for the last 3 hours & I just need to let it go don't I.

Sorry it's muddled, hopefully you get the gist.

Popple there are no easy answers with the contact for your children with your mother. People who would judge that often don’t realise that in situations where the father has abused other children courts often decide that the benefit of having a relationship with a parent outweighs the risks associated with him being a paedophile. I personally absolutely disagree with that view but it is a widely held view by courts. These situations are complex and there are no easy answers. It has been a huge wrench for my children to lose all their family in my personal situation, but I literally do not trust any of my family anymore with really good cause after the choices they have made, but I also completely see where you are coming from. Your choice to continue trying to keep some sort of boundaried contact between your mother and your children in order that they understand where they have come from makes absolutely sense to me.

Of course I'm not saying that you should let your mother die without seeing the kids. End of life trumps everything and the kids aren't old enough that they would even have a memory of this guy.

But that's not quite the scenario you were initially describing. You were talking about right now, having fallen out with the family because of your decision.

If your mothers circumstances change and her illness worsens, then obviously you can revisit your decision.

But right now, you say your mum could see the kids whenever she wants and is choosing not to, while your sister sends you nasty texts. Everyone feels very strongly about their position and it doesn't sound as though that's going to change. So it sucks, and it hurts, but the relationship may not ever feel truly repaired. All you can do is what feels right according to the circumstances.

WhoWants2Know No, Babyiskicking was asking about/& giving some good ideas about if mum becomes housebound & I answered saying about my ex & how he didn't see his dad 'Near the end' so I wasn't talking about now. I was talking about near the end. (If we get such warning)

Thank you Muttly, I know exactly what you mean. The courts do make some very odd decsions don't they!

Muttly you speak a lot of sense. the feeling of loss for your children missing out on extended family is horrible. im so sorry for your situation. its unbelievable how some families react to abuse.

OP, i hope you're ok and your mum starts to see sense about visiting your DC or inviting you all over when he isnt around. its crazy that she us putting him and her feelings above that of you and her grandchildren.

do you think its coming from him? is he putting pressure on her and not allowing the children over without him there?

It must be so hurtful to you that she would rather not see them , i certainly know how hurtful it is that my DM would rather not see mine. Its completely irrational to me.

Thanks SoTiredoftheStress It does hurt doesn't it
I've got no idea if it comes from him or not, it's just strange behaviour isn't it, like you said, irrational, that she would rather sit at home alone sulking instead of just asking us to come round.
I've made comments before like 'There must of been times when he's gone out?' which she has dodged, but the other day was the first time I specifically said 'He was out Saturday wasn't he?' & she wouldn't answer.... I mean, I know that he was out for at least 3 hours because that's how long I was there!

When mum first got ill I went & spent the whole afternoon/evening with her until the early hours of the next morning. I said to her (again) that we would come round any day, any time he goes out, & just to let me know (school holidays were coming up) but she kept saying 'He will be with me/he won't be going out/he will be by my side always' etc. Eventually I said 'Mum, come on, even if he pops to town, that takes an hour minimum with the walk, or pops to the local shops for half an hour, we are nearby & can come then, he isn't gonna be by your side ALL the time is he?! Or We can come & sit with you for an hour if he needs a break, go & see his friend or something'. & she said 'No, he will be by my side the whole time. He loves me'.

So I left it. It was somewhere after that conversation & when my sis started on me, that I stopped asking her. I stopped text her reminding her of all the places near hers where we could meet & just left it. Why am I the one always trying to find solutions?!
She decided to stay with him. She can work out when/where to see my kids. (& Obviously she's decided to barely bother)

You're right, she has made the choice and she has to live with that, unfortunately i know that impacts and hurts you too tho. however your conscience is clear and your children are safe.

It sounds like you've been beyond flexible with it as many people would have cut her off for even being with him in the first place.

is it common knowledge amongst their friends/neighbours about his conviction? This is one of the things that bugs me about my situation, its all a big secret and no one is to know.

Thanks SoTiredoftheStress. I really do think, that on this issue, I've bent over backwards & there is nothing else I can do. How long has it been for you with your family? Have they told you not to tell anybody?

As far as I'm aware none of their friends know. There's been a few times like when I was round there on mum's birthday & her friends asked 'Are you going to bring the kids back later?' & I was like 'Um, yeah I might do'.

But I don't know if that's because there are aware & think I should be fine with it, like everybody else in the world is, or if they aren't aware at all.
We actually still have a birthday present for my mum, I gave her some of them & said that the kids wanted to see her to give her the other one... 2 weeks ago

Oh i doubt they know then, its very unlikely they would still associate with your mum and her partner if they new.

its been just over 5 yrs since the nuclear bomb exploded, and im still in counselling for it all :-(

SoTiredoftheStress My sis in law was the one person who I was certain would have the same view as me. I was 99% sure of it. My ex was sure of it too (for various reasons)

When the police spoke to me they said that if my bro & his wife ever had a child then they would talk to them too. So when sis in law got pregnant (I waited until she was 30 weeks to avoid early stress) I phoned the police & they said they would talk to them... Then they had the baby & that baby is now 4 & sis in law has never had a problem with having her around him. It's literally just me! Nobody else cares! So, honestly, I think all of their friend DO know & just don't care!

I'm not surprised you are still in counselling, it's an absolute head fuck isn't it! It's kind of nice having you to talk to on here as our stories are similar, but I wish they weren't. I feel for you so much.

wow thats crazy about your SIL, i just cant comprehend their thoughts on that!!

My situation differs in that there was no convictions as not enough evidence.

However im happy enough in ny oqn mind that they were guilty, but as you can probably imagine this is thrown at me all the time 'no one was charged ' it was all a big accident' etc etc.

iv always wished (fantasised!) that there was enough evidence as i believed that it would have meant an entirely different outcome. in my head l i wouldn't have lost my family as there is no way they could say i was in the wrong, however reading your story is now making me doubt that. Deep down i know that my parents would have stood by my sister and her husband no matter what, i would always the one cast aside. Im so sorry you are going through the same, its unbelievably tough and hard to comprehend if you haven't experienced it.

I think people just cannot comprehend how far people will go in denial to fit into their chosen social group. We originate from animal species and that protection of the group is such a strong instinct and it is a strong survival instinct that comes way before any rational thinking. Loads of people will do almost anything to not get pushed out of that group. That is why abuse is handled so badly in families, churches, scouts. People almost universally stay with the group ahead of doing what’s safe, logical and right and then use denial as a defense mechanism to get through. Your sister in law is an extremely foolish woman but she is also displaying absolutely typical human behaviour.

SoTiredoftheStress, That sounds so hard for you. (I constantly get 'THEY are happy bringing their kids round', whoever mum happens to be talking about this time) like I haven't already been told that 700 times, & like I'm gonna say 'Oh really? Ok, I'll bring mine round then!'
I hope this isn't bringing up too many painful memories for you, talking to me. I wish your fantasy would come true. You don't deserve this.

Muttly is absolutely right sadly. It's so much easier to go along with the masses than risk being pushed out.

I was gutted about my sis in law for my own selfish reasons, as well as being certain that she would be on on side anyway, I also desperately wanted her to be on my side, so I wasn't the only one.
But tbf to sis in law, she's never mentioned it to me, nothing negative to say (has either accepted my decision or slates me behind my back) but that's all I can hope for really.

Muttly you are very wise & what you said makes complete sense.

Not at all OP, its nice to chat to someone that understands.

im glad your SIL doesn't criticise your decisions.

i'll be honest i was definitely at risk if falling into the statistics of burying my head in the sand but thankfully my OH pulled me away from the manipulation and i can now clearly see who's right and wrong, but my god it wasnt easy to go against my family of origin. even 5yrs on i still have moments of panic where i get doubts etc but deep down know iv done whats right for my family.

im glad your ex is on board with you OP, that could have been even harder if he didn't share your views x

SoTiredoftheStress it sounds so difficult, it is hard to let your family go isn't it. I feel like I'm grieving for all the times I thought we were going to have together. I keep thinking of silly unimportant things that we now won't do together.
I'm glad you have your OH too. Did he ever have any doubts?

Yes, at least I have him on side. It was never a question for either of us. It's just a shame that it's my ex & I don't actually get to talk to him about it much! (Not that there's anything new to say really)

My mum has tried to say a few times 'Ex wouldn't like it if you bought them round would he?' (stirring the pot again) & I ALWAYS answer that with 'He wouldn't be happy with it, no, but I make my own decisions and I'M not happy with it'.

Hi Popple, just wondering how things are going?

Have you tried being angry about it? You are tiptoeing around everyone's feelings, what about you and your kids!

"I can't believe you can't be bothered to see your grandchildren, they love you and are desperate to see you, but you won't even call me to bring them over! You'd rather miss out on seeing them to prove a point about your partner! What kind of grandma are you!"

I mean it's harsh, but it's true. Maybe soften it a bit, but honestly what's to lose?

"Mum I'm really sad you won't ring to see the kids, and I don't understand why you'd do that. You can see them. I'll bring them when he's out. You just don't want to."

Sorry that was me above with the wrong username.

pickleme I did get angry with her the other day just before I started the thread, (similar to what you said) but it didn't get me anywhere. It ended with mum saying 'I can't believe you said all that. I'm gonna be fighting for my life. What are you doing this for?'

So she is clearly seeing me as the one in the wrong.

SoTiredoftheStress I'm ok. How are you?

SoTiredoftheStress Was rushing to do the school run earlier!

I spoke to Macmillain (mum has cancer) about the situation but they weren't much help really, they said to do what I believe is best & that was it, but I suppose it is an odd situation for them.

I had my birthday (40) & spent it with just the kids. For my sis' 40th we threw her a huge party. For mine my sis put a card through the door (a day late) she has also unblocked me I noticed, I've still got her blocked, but I imagine the unblocking means that more crap is coming.

My mum text to say that she had a present for me & she would come round the day before... Normally I'd say 'Dont put yourself out, we will come & meet you' but this time I just let her come.

Oh & it turns out my bro isn't angry with me, he was treating it as any other little disagreement where it's soon forgotten, but I was taking it as a big thing this time as that's what my sis has turned it into.

Still, silver lining, as long as I never mention the situation, then I'm still talking to my bro.

That is bizarre, about your brother too. I think we often paint people who have done monstrous things as monsters, and so we don't recognise them when we see them. Your sibs and their partners have fallen for the 'ordinary bloke' persona he's developed, because they think molesters are visibly weird and evil. It's comforting for them to think they can tell who the bad guys are. You are challenging their comfortable belief, so they dislike it.

Can you check the police have actually spoken to DB and SiL? Also is he on license or on a register? Is he breaking the terms of his own release? That may help.

pickleme He is on the sex offenders register (I think you stay on that for life?)
He was told not to go anywhere where there is definitely children I believe, so no visits to a school kind of thing but he can pretty much do anything else. He's been to fun days at the park etc. He was checking in with the police once a month I believe (sorry I'm a bit hazy on the details but he was definitely having to check in)
They would of spoken to them, even if they didn't do it when I contacted them then it would of flagged up through the MW or HV or however they got hold of my contact details in the first place.

I know what you mean about seeing them as some kind of monster, I'd only met him a few times before I found out but I'd never warmed to him. He was very kind of... 'Hi'... Walk off... & I'd be thinking 'Ok. Don't make any effort or anything!' & since I've found out I've seen him have a go at mum various times when he was drunk & she shrugged it off.
Then when mum got her diagnosis & I sat with her until the early hours of the morning (& mum was drinking) he took himself to bed then came back & shouted at her about her drinking & it was really awkward (he was sober then)
Oh & another time she asked once if he could get her some things from the shop & she came & sat back down with me, then he came & said 'I need the money' & mum said 'Oh. I've just sat down. I'll get up again then' (her leg was hurting her that day) so he stood there & watched her struggle to get up to go & get him some money.

So basically if I didn't know what I knew about him, then I still wouldn't like him! Nobody wants to see their mum in a bad relationship.

But apparantly nobody else sees any of that & of course I can't say anything to anybody as they will think I 'Just don't like him'.

Call me a cynical old boot but I think that your mother was trying to use her illness to leverage you into rolling back on your decision to have your children around her partner.

She doesn't want you to call around when he's not there, she doesn't want to accept your decision or find a compromise in order to see her GC because if she does, it reminds her that his past IS relevant and IS possibly true. If you turn up and have your kids around him then she can gloss over his past and pretend it was all lies. Standing your ground, she can't. It's a stark reminder of what he did.

And when cancer wasn't the leverage she hoped it would be, she sent the flying monkey in the guise of your sister to guilt you into it.

I remember your old thread, and possibly I replied with my own story of CSA. Anyway, I think that many people tell themselves that even with someone like that, that they can monitor the person but you can't fully. I see now how much the CSA in my life damaged me (but fine now after I got some great counselling in my twenties) and changed my childhood and I look at my perfect DS who's got none of the fears and horrors and emotional shit I did in childhood and I will fight to the death to ensure he never knows what it's like. You are doing the right thing.

Sadly, there are many GC who for various reasons, don't get to say goodbye to their grandparent before they pass, and covid has shown us that there are many ways to pay your respects to a deceased when you can't see them before they pass or attend the funeral. You will find the way that suits you and your children best but do not feel guilt over it.
If I had a mum as vigilant as you, my childhood would have been very different and a million times better than the one I had.

Aww Drinkingallthewine That made me well up. Thank you. Thank you so much for saying that. I'm not really ok. I'm struggling. You are absolutely right that my mum thought 'This will make her change her mind & stop being stupid'.

When I saw her the other day she kept saying things like 'I know it's not the birthday that you wanted, but things will get better' & I kept thinking 'Well they won't, will they?! Not any time soon! & You are making sure of that too, by keep stirring the pot!'

I'm glad you are good nowxx

PS I liked you calling my sister a flying monkeyhaha.