Fallen out with whole family.

[PoppleZopple]

Hi. My mum is ill, I have a sister & a brother. We are all arguing & I just have to accept that this is it, don't I? I'm now completely on my own with my children, my siblings are no longer part of the picture. I'm nearly 40.

I feel so sad. We never saw each other all the time but special occasions, or if somebody needed help, house move etc. I think it was a fairly standard sibling relationship really.

But I'm still going to miss them.

I don't know what I want with this post really, just somebody to talk to. Does anybody want to talk? I've been crying for the last 3 hours & I just need to let it go don't I.

Sorry it's muddled, hopefully you get the gist.

Thank you bozzabollix, that's a really kind post. & Thank you for taking the time to read through all of this

She did make a weak choice. She blames me for that as well though because when she said to me 'I have to finish with him don't i' I said 'I just want you to be happy' & that was apparently me giving her my blessing & telling her that I was fine with it.

I know what you are saying about friendships but I don't want people to end up hurting my mum because of him. (People could target the house etc) & I know some on here say she deserves all she gets but I'm not going to risk telling people & her getting hurt because of me. I'd rather just stay as I am & not have friends.

I don't trust my sis to have my kids at all, posting on here has helped me to see that. I'm actually sure that she would take them to my mum's & then tell me after with a 'See, they are fine, you've been silly all this time!'

I agree you are correct that your DSis has an agenda - and it’s likely that she is subconsciously terrified that she has made the wrong choice around her DC so she needs to prove you wrong.

I wouldn’t even visit her house as she is likely to invite him over if she was unable to get your DCs off you to bring to him.

How old are her DCs - have they been exposed to him? Does she believe he is innocent? Do you feel any responsibility to alert her to danger?

TicketMasterMind Her kids are older now, teen & young 20's. I don't feel any responsibility to tell her any more than the police told her. What could I say? She made her choice. That probably sounds harsh of me, I just don't know what more I could say.

We don't go to her house anyway that's why my kids don't really know her. I used to invite her to outside meetups but she never came so I stopped.

I used to invite her to outside meetups but she never came so I stopped.

Is she interested in you as a sister at all? Because that's very very odd. Or is it that she wants there to be a sort of structure where everyone sees each other with family and everything is alright?

Also (no need to answer!) did something happen to your mum when she was young to destroy her backbone? Because these actions of hers are really, really not normal for a mother and grandmother. Was she overridden by her father/brothers all the time so she lost her strength of will?

It sounds like she's dangerously in denial herself and just can't be trusted to keep your kids safe if she's this convinced it's all been a mistake and he's innocent. I remember some friends years ago who were retired high ranking police officers asking me to house sit for a neighbour as he was expecting to go to prison for a couple of years. The story was that something had gone on with his step grandchildren which he said was only a bit of knee touching but he didn't do it, and my friend said he wasn't convinced he was telling them the whole story but they said if I asked him he would tell me everything. So I asked him and basically he told me that he had a previous conviction for GBH and was expecting to serve time because he got in a fight. I did my own research and found out he served 18 months in the 1980's for sexually assaulting a young girl and the step grandchildren had both gone to the police and given evidence of inappropriate touching starting when they were both underage. Obviously I called my friends going mad and told them what I found out and that he had lied to me. Let's just say my friends were in a profession that would usually be locking people like that up and throwing the keys away and even they were drawn in by his story, well the husband not so much but the wife felt sorry for him and wanted to help him because his wife had died recently. He even persued a relationship with their daughter who had a little girl in the run up to telling them he was in trouble because he knew they had contacts in the legal profession that might be useful to him. That's how far these people will go to get themselves off the hook. It's worrying the lengths they go to rewrite history, usually getting other people to do the explaining for them. His other adult children were convinced it was all lies and ostracised the step grandchildren, even though he had a previous conviction for the same thing.

Could you not go back to the police to ask for his real name and details of the court case? Because it might reveal which children specifically (age / gender) are at risk from him.

I have read the thread and I see that SIL didn’t have DC when this was revealed and I suspect that he (and your DM inadvertently) had time to groom and influence her before she got pregnant - whereas you had your maternal instincts already in place. Does your DB not see his 4 year old daughter at risk here?

I can see all of the grief, frustration and loneliness that you are wrestling with - the relationship you should be having with your DM, the relationship that your DCs should be having, the injustice that they are all projecting this on to you and not accepting your decisions.

Worst is your DMs refusal to do any workarounds with you - letting you know when he is out etc. Sounds like he is v controlling and she is scared of him - especially the coming back early stuff.

Your DSis is another part of the enmeshed toxic system. Your DM obviously winds her right up.

Where is your DF in this - what was the family dynamic when you were growing up - your DM being a drinker is also problematic as her brain is pickled and her perspective skewed and unreliable.

Does your DSis have a husband / partner - what do they think of the situation?

Is it your older nephew who has since had a child - have the police been informed?

I think that you are doing the right thing and that it is easier for all of them to deflect and engage in conflict with you rather than peer into the gross reality.

The whole family unit sounds totally controlling to insist you spend time with your DC in his presence and to constantly berate and abuse you with texts for years and years. Did your family growing up have issues accepting others autonomy?

How do you respond to your DSis barrage of texts - do you ask her to stop?

TicketMasterMind No my bro & sis in law don't see their child as being at risk because even if he did it, he did his time & they released him so he must be safe now. (My bro's words) they now have a baby too & have both kids around him happily.

I honestly don't know about my older nephews baby, I assume they would have been told by now though.

My dad died years ago & was horribly abusive according to my mum now. I didn't know much as a child but I remember mum had to beg for money & used to hear them arguing a lot. He was always away working but mum now says he had multiple affairs, including with all of their friends wives, which fits why their friends disappeared, so I guess she's jumped from one abusive person to another.

I do think mum is scared of him. He shouts at her, he did it on Christmas day when I was there without the kids, over nothing.

All the children he abused were girls but the police said that if he wants to do it again then he would probably go for a boy if that's all he could get too (sorry if that upsets anybody) & that was already my thoughts too. But my sis has boys she might might possibly think they aren't at risk because of that.

ShakespearesBlister It's just awful isn't it, the poor people that are damaged through men like this.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar I don't know why my sis doesn't want a better relationship with me but she just doesn't. I used to babysit her kids all the time & went to all of their birthdays but when mine were born her younger one was 8 so there was a fair age gap, she once told my mum she didn't come to one of the Birthday meet ups in the park because it's boring watching kids play. (But she didn't txt me or let me know that she wasn't coming)

I mean, I know it's not the most exiting thing in the world but we had a picnic, it was a warm day & the adults get to chat for 2 hours, it's not that awful.

It's all for show. She wants us to pretend to be this big happy family because that's what we 'should' look like.

When I ask her not to txt me nasty things she says things like 'Yes, god forbid anybody annoys you, your conscience is clear knowing that mum cries every day because you won't let her have a relationship with your children'.

I'd retort "my conscience is also clear knowing I don't let a beast around my children and I do everything with my power as a mother to protect them from a man who raped children"

It sounds like you had a very messy and emotionally violent upbringing and I am struck by how you referred to everything by what your DM has told you rather than any personal recollections. It’s as if her “reality” is the only story and you have cut-off from your own deep feelings from this unstable childhood.

Maybe that’s the root of your issue now - self doubt of your own gut and reality - not being able to be at peace with your personal decisions because others (DM, S & B) have taken alternative decisions.

It seems the pain is not in the decisions you have taken objectively but how you are undermining yourself emotionally?

Think this is also about boundaries with your DSis. What are the consequences to her for repeatedly belittling and harassing you? Are you able to say “this is not up for discussion. I don’t want your opinions. If you ignore / disrespect this request I will have to block your communications”

TicketMasterMind I remember her having a secret purse & having to beg my dad for money. The other things my mum must have shielded me from.

I don't have any doubt in my decisions here but the pain I feel is being on the outside of the family now. Even though I see my bro I know behind my back he's sending nasty texts about me to my mum.

I ask my sis to stop & she hurls abuse at me about me being childish/child like & threatens to bad mouth me to my kids. She did block me before which I was greatfull for as it gave me some peace.

Although saying all that, nobody has sent me any messages about this for months now.

I don't have self-belief in my self, but I have belief in my decisions. I'm just lonely.

amiold They answer things like that with 'Don't be ridiculous, you know he wouldn't hurt them & I wouldn't let him hurt them if he tried, there's oy one reason you are doing this & that's to hurt mum'.

Just tell her she is delusional and a disgrace and always reply the same thing.

Also... next time she blocks you. You block her. That way she can't then unblock you when it suits and start with the nonsense. You're also not on egg shells waiting for her to block you again and you know where you are

If any of them message I would be tempted to send something like...

"Mum shares a home and bed with a man who raped children*. Children, just like ours. Real children. I will parent how I see fit and that includes protecting my children from a convicted rapist being anywhere near them. Mum can see my children without him present, if she chooses not to do so that's up to her. I'm at peace with my decision as I believe it is putting my children's safety first. I'm not discussing this further."

Then block.

These people don't deserve to be anywhere near your orbit, let alone your children's.

(Asterisk as I don't know what he did but for that sentence I strongly assume it was a rape conviction.)

I agree with sending this to your siblings if theycontact you again.

I would also add in that "he served 8 years and changed his name, and has no contact with his children and grandchildren that he abused".

Spell it out.

I think you are adding to your loneliness by not telling people the truth.

Shame is protecting them and him.

You have NO shame in this.

Should anyone ask you, tell the truth.

"It's very sad we don't see much of mum but she is living with a convicted rapist who served 8 years for sexually assaulting his children and grandchildren, and I won't risk my children in his presence".

Tell friends the truth so they can support you.

This burden is not yours.
You are a great woman and mother.

The fact he refuses to meet you anywhere but will only discuss it on his terms with nobody present indicates that he still wants to maintain an element of control over his version. If it ever came to it if want to research his real name to find out exactly why he wants to control what he tells people about it. But that would take the power away from him because you'd have access to the full facts with his real name and he won't want that. Stay strong anyway. One day your kids will be old enough to understand what you were protecting them from and will think they have the most amazing and selfless mum in the world xx

Thank you ShakespearesBlister. I've always thought that he'd say something like... 'Ok, I did do it, but they deserved it coz of 'this' reason, & if you don't tell your mum then I'll help you out with money & stuff'.

I mean, I might be way off, & I'll never know anyway. He gives me the creeps. He answered my mum's mobile once when I called & I couldn't even speak to him, I just froze & said nothing.

billy I'm sure I am adding to my loneliness I just don't want to risk my mum getting hurt.

monsteramunch I know you mean well & thank you, but that wouldn't work, I would just get the comeback of 'But he didn't do anything'.

I do appreciate you all talking to me though.

amiold I blocked when when she blocked me (on WhatsApp) but she sent this fake 'Oh I tried to WhatsApp you & it wouldn't go through for some reason' so I unblocked her.

Mum asked the both to stop with the nasty messages a year ago & they have, so far, stuck to it. They give her grief about it instead though & then SHE moans at me.

They answer things like that with 'Don't be ridiculous, you know he wouldn't hurt them & I wouldn't let him hurt them if he tried, there's oy one reason you are doing this & that's to hurt mum'.

so .. knowing that your stepfather was convicted of something awful .. they think you're out to hurt your mum?

That's one very very twisted way of thinking. Have youheard of DARVO?

"deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender" - particularly in connection with sexual offenders.

If you had agreed to see him on your own there's a very high chance he would have 1) tried to charm you and if that hadn't worked, 2) threaten you or your children.

• • You were very wise to refuse. Your instincts served you well.

I totally get you don’t want your mum to be hurt but it seems incredibly one sided, she’s quite happy for you to be bullied and ostracised over her bad decision making but doesn’t get any consequences at all. Well unless you count choosing to be with an abusive paedophile.

Not everyone would go out with a pitchfork, anyone you confided in would be shocked yes, but physically attacking the house would be unlikely unless that person was quite aggressive. You can usually tell which friend would do what.

We found out a very good friend was addicted to child porn and was on forums saying he was planning to rape his niece. It broke our hearts but whilst we dropped him like a brick after his arrest, we didn’t set off with any flaming torches - nobody did who found out. I think for your own well-being you need at least one person in the know who will back you 100%.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar Yes, I'm not exactly sure why I apparently want to hurt my mum, plus surely if I wanted to do that then I WOULD tell everybody I know, & let her deal with the consequences.

Also, nobody's called him my stepfather before. Ugh. I hated that.

DARVO sounds right.

bozzabollix I know what you are saying & it's nice to hear how you reacted.

It is one sided but there's the added factor of my mum being unwell right now, she's on borrowed time & she doesn't even have a nice man at home taking care of her. I know she doesn't deserve it but I just want to protect my mum & if that means dealing with this alone then so be it.

Also, nobody's called him my stepfather before. Ugh. I hated that. Sorry :( not a very sensitive moment. Apologies.

Aah it's ok, ReleaseTheDucks. I suppose when they get married I'll have to get used to it.

I so agree with this.

You need and deserve support.

It's not fair that you carry this huge load alone.

Think about it at least.

Thanks billy. I am thinking about it, honestly.

So I'm tentatively going to post today as I value the support.

Everything is 'Ok' so far but my mum is asking if we will come for Christmas & my bro has text & asked me too.

I still haven't grown a back-bone so I'm saying 'Probably not'.

I never spoke to anybody in RL, since I last posted, and I've been doing ok just keeping it to myself... As usually, this time of year is the hardest for me hence the post.

My mum is still battling on with her illness & her partner is still best friends/dad figure with everybody else in the family & me & my kids are just living our lives & occasionally seeing my mum socially.

It's just such a part of our lives now that it's barely been mentioned at all, until the past few weeks when Christmas is being bought up.

Once in the summer, I asked my nephew if he wanted to meet at the park with his baby & he said he will let me know, apparently he then went to my mum & said that he will only see me at hers with my kids because I'm 'being stupid' by not taking them there. I just said 'That's fine, we won't meet up then'. To my mum.

I am so sorry that things remain unchanged.

Unfortunately some women are like that.

Men first always, ahead of their children, family and badic decency.

You are a good woman, a wonderful mother whom has been dealt a tough hand.

Focusing on your acceptance is all you can do.

You cannot change them, and you don't want to change yourself.

Your children continue to be your priority, as they should be.

Life is hard at times unfortunately.

This is your sadness to bear.

I am so sorry that I hsve no comfort beyond that to offer you.

You will get through this.
You will grow to accept this.
You will move on from the pain.

As you age you will grow in wisdom and perspective.

You will move from the pain to pity for your mother, eventually.

Pity for the weak, shallow woman she is, where supporting a pedophile was more important to her than her children and grandchildren.

She is to be pitied, not mourned.
Her legacy will be her poor choices, that will be what she will be remembered for as her children grow up.

Be kind to yourself.
I am so sorry for you.

Thank you so much billy1966 That's a very kind post & it made me cry. The part when you said you have no comfort for me.

I looked at the date on the last post & thought 'Look, you've managed nearly a whole year' but I don't feel strong. I feel like I'm hurting everybody around me with my choices, in my dark moments, even though I know that I'm not. This family rift, is my fault, even though I know it's not.

When that thing happened with my nephew this summer, I barely registered it. I thought 'Ok, so my kids & his kids won't know each other. His choice' but I do feel guilt also.

That's the overriding feeling. Guilt. And I know that's crazy. I know it is. But it's what I feel.