Hand hold needed - call off engagement?

[blueblueelectricblue28]

I need some help and I don't know where to turn. I'll try and keep it as brief as possible. I've got tears streaming down my face writing this.

Both 30, together nearly 5 years, engaged 4 months. Wedding booked for next summer.

I've spent the last 4 days in tears after an incident at the weekend over Sunday pub lunch with friends - conversation was lively/people talking over each other a little, as can happen. I cut in as he opened his mouth (doesn't sound great written down but in the context of the group and conversation wasn't such a faux pas) and he said, loudly "will you LET ME SPEAK" to me. The whole table went silent and no one knew where to look. it was so humiliating. He also got into an argument with the staff as they needed the table back and he didn't want to move. When we got home I was so upset, this turned into an argument with him shouting at me to SHUT THE FUCK UP so I left the flat and walked around for a couple of hours holding back the tears. I just wanted to run away.

A week before we got engaged we were waiting for an Uber which was having difficulty finding us (due to roadworks) and I ordered it on my phone. He got impatient, snapped and said "stop being a cunt!". I spent the whole journey in the car frozen with fear and when I got home I went into the bedroom and squeezed myself into a small space between two bits of furniture where I felt safe and hidden. I can't explain that, it sounds like such a mad thing to do but I wanted to hide myself away in a small space and not come out. Less than a week later he proposed to me and I have to admit my gut feeling when I saw the ring was "its not right". I feel that I got so swept up with everyone else's celebrations and happiness around it I didn't check in with myself to ask if it was right for me. My parents had an unhappy marriage and I have had difficulty with my boundaries in the past. I've also stopped taking recreational drugs after several years so have revised a lot of my friendships with that in mind (I am so happy to be clean, but feel a bit more isolated because of it, so don't have as many people around me to lean on in the event of a break up TBH)

I could go on. He pushed me out of the room with both hands a few months ago too. Said it was my fault, I'd driven him to it (as I always seem to) He has quite hot headed and will often tell me to fuck off, shut up, raise his voice or slam doors when we argue. he did call me a cunt once before and I said I would leave if he spoke to me like that again... well I guess the joke's on me now.

We've had sex once in the 4 months we've been engaged, this has been a bone of contention for a couple of years as he just isn't interested in me (he's been stressed/tired/on AD's which I realise can be a problem but nothing's been done to fix it)
Sex has to be on his terms with both of us fully showered and at a time he wants it, it always follows the same pattern and feels quite formulaic. I've tried to suggest new things but he's refused. Usually happens about once every 2-4 weeks. I feel like I'm wasting away here, sex and intimacy is so important to me, and I long to share that with someone else.
I was abused sexually in the past so initially a partner who wasn't pestering me for sex all the time was quite refreshing but its become apparent it isn't right for me.

I know I need to leave but I lack the confidence to do it - finding somewhere new to live seems so daunting, living independently, starting over, dividing up our things, losing friends, not to mention the calling off of the wedding, letting guests know, cancelling suppliers etc. Additionally I feel so afraid of "losing face" as we have had so much love and excitement from people around the wedding and to rip the plaster off and deal with the inevitable upset and feelings of shame and failure feels terrifying.

He knows something is up and I am having doubts about the marriage. He's trying to make it better by booking us a weekend away, coming off AD's to kick start his libido but its just too little too late and I want out.
When I think of us separated, or him with someone else, I can't stop crying, we have had many happy memories aside from the bad times and he has helped me through some difficulties which have been painful, so I feel completely torn.
He earns much more than me so pays the majority of the rent and I see a psychotherapist once a week which he covers 50% of. I am worried about how this could change if we separate. She has been amazing and a real comfort to me.

Additionally, I have been talking to another man and getting close to him. He knows the situation and while I think he might be a red herring and I am not looking to be "saved" by another man, it has been a real eye opener to feel desired and wanted again by someone and to be validated that the current situation isn't right.

Downloaded the Lundy Bancroft book I see so often recommended on here and although I am finding it tough to read (as it makes it all "real") a lot of lights are turning on in my head.

Sorry for the extremely long post, I'd really welcome any thoughts and please be gentle with me, it's all such a mess and I'm really hurting.

If you have supportive family, I would honestly pack your things while he is at work and just get out.

It's very unlikely that he will have any respect for your decisions, as he has no respect for you at all anyway.

He'll either treat you to a full on manipulative pressure session with the tears and the victim blaming or he will get aggressive. Definitely don't tell him it's over when it's just you two at home - you are not safe.

Honestly, I would just leave, and then tell him - it's over, no I didn't feel that I could talk it through first with you because I now don't feel safe doing so, you are abusive and I have removed myself from an abusive situation, it's over.

Make it clear to him that pressure, manipulation, guilting, any more contact and you'll report him to the police for harassment as well as be forced to be very clear with friends exactly what's been going on so that they can help keep him away from you.

Also my friend in London left a relationship in her mid 30's and later met a really lovely man (he's SO much nicer than all her previous boyfriends!!) they got married when she was almost 40 and they had their first child when she was 41. I know it might not feel like it, but you really have loads of time.

(In fact, come to think of it, my mum met my Dad at 35 and had me at 37, and my siblings at 39 and 43..)

Leave.
You list a number of perfectly acceptable reasons why leaving today is eminently sensible.
What really stood out was what you wrote when he proposed.
Leave now, while it’s relatively easy.
Leave and be free.
Good luck.

@Skeumorph

If you have supportive family, I would honestly pack your things while he is at work and just get out.

It's very unlikely that he will have any respect for your decisions, as he has no respect for you at all anyway.

He'll either treat you to a full on manipulative pressure session with the tears and the victim blaming or he will get aggressive. Definitely don't tell him it's over when it's just you two at home - you are not safe.

Honestly, I would just leave, and then tell him - it's over, no I didn't feel that I could talk it through first with you because I now don't feel safe doing so, you are abusive and I have removed myself from an abusive situation, it's over.

Make it clear to him that pressure, manipulation, guilting, any more contact and you'll report him to the police for harassment as well as be forced to be very clear with friends exactly what's been going on so that they can help keep him away from you.

This is v good advice, thank you. I've reached the point where I know I want out, but need to work out the practicalities of how I do it. Family are a few hundred miles away though I suppose I could hunker down there and work remotely for a bit.

Every time I've tried to talk it over with him the tears have started from him, the victim blaming etc or he's got aggressive and we end up going round in circles, I get so exhausted so I just give in and we make up.

I think this needs a bit more careful planning before I can leave, but just writing it down and having my fears confirmed that this IS abuse has been invaluable.

Well done op, you've done the right thing. The man is abusive and he doesn't have you yet. If married and with kids it would just ramp up as you would be more trapped.

Don't worry about starting over. I split up with my perfectly nice fiance who I had fallen out of love with and had other relationships and kids. They turned out to be abusive so in my late 40s and with 4 kids in tow I started again. Happiest I've ever been. I have a great life now.

Also, re the other man, I do think he's a red herring, and not what I need right now. I really don't want to hop from one shitty guy to another.

Hi OP, I'm your future child. I spent my childhood listening to my father scream all sorts of filth at my mother and then getting smashed around myself once I stopped accepting him doing the same to me. I don't respect my mother for putting up with it and subjecting us to it.

30 is no age to start again and meet someone new. This cannot be your life.

The future is irrelevant at the moment OP, and you are overthinking things by trying to plan any future relationships before you are safely established away from this one. It will just sap your emotional energy.

I would start cancelling wedding bookings as fast as possible in order to save as many deposits as possible.

Are they in your name? Can you do it without him knowing, for now?

But the most important thing to focus on is leaving and how you do it.

There really isn't much to sort , if family can collect you or you drive your own car , wait till he goes out to work and pack it all in , leave nothing personal or important

If able to work remotely then even better
You can do it
You deserve so much better than this vile man

"Every time I've tried to talk it over with him the tears have started from him, the victim blaming etc or he's got aggressive and we end up going round in circles, I get so exhausted so I just give in and we make up.

I think this needs a bit more careful planning before I can leave, but just writing it down and having my fears confirmed that this IS abuse has been invaluable."

OP - it's terrific to see that you've spoken to your family about this and started to make plans. It's absolutely the right thing to do (indeed, it would be the right thing to do even if your fiancé was the nicest person in the world but you no longer loved him), and your instincts have shown themselves to be very healthy.

Including your instinct to leave the relationship in the cleanest way possible. I've been reading the Gift of Fear. It's a very interesting book and some of the advice is potentially relevant here. The first piece of advice is that safety is more important than justice. This has various implications.

One implication is that it may be safer for you to leave him a note rather than try to tell him face to face - you've tried that in the past and he's forced you to change your mind through emotional blackmail. Ultimately, delaying the inevitable split doesn't help you or him. It just makes everything worse and more painful.

A second is as follows: you're leaving the relationship because your fiancé is abusive and doesn't meet your needs. However, abusers can tend to be come more abusive if they lose face. Therefore, a safer way to get away may well be to make this about you rather than him. After all, if it's about what he does or doesn't do - he can start arguing that he will change and that he is able to fix it. He can say that he won't shout at you any more; that you will have more sex etc etc. However, if you can somehow make clear that the decision to leave is about something in you that he can't change, then it's harder for him to argue that anything he does will make a difference.

A third piece of advice the author (Gavin de Becker) gives is - never try to let a man down gently. Men don't understand being let down gently because they don't tend to do it themselves. You need to deliver a clear message that the relationship is over in a way which gives no wiggle room for him to offer to change/wait for you etc. Again, this all probably more easily done by a letter.

Accept that he will be very angry and hurt. You can't change that. But in time he will get over you (unless he's genuinely unhinged and even if he is, it's not your problem). You can only begin the journey to recovery for both yourself and him sooner rather than later. The sooner you get on that road, the sooner you and he will both be through and out the other side.

Good luck, OP. Onwards and upwards.

@hazelgrey and @EdgeOfTheSky have given brilliant practical advice. Take those steps and you'll be well away.

I mean emotionally you've already checked out - otherwise you wouldnt be able to entertain another guy like that. You know this engagement is dead weight and dragging it on isnt fair on you or your dp.

If you re read everything you've written it's a perfect recipe for an abusive unhappy marriage. Dont repeat your parents mistakes. Get out whilst you still can and always trust your instinct

Rewire your thinking from looking at this as a negative to a positive. Why would you lose friends? The ones you keep will be yours for life. You get to re start and do whatever you want with your life. If you marry this man you are in for a lifetime of abuse. Can you imagine having kids and him screaming “shut the fuck up you cunt” at you in front of them? Because that’s what will happen. You must leave. You can do this. You have all of us, your therapist, your parents to support you

This often gets missed when people post on the relationships thread but this needs reading, not necessarily the whole thing but just the opening post. MN made it a sticky for a reason

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

You are worth more than he is treating you. You have support and you know it is right to leave. Stay safe.

Has he been assessed for ADHD.
For me as soon as you said you weren't sure about his proposal - nothing else you said made a difference as not being sure of his proposal speaks volumnes for me.

You sound frightened. That's no way to live. Yes, leaving will be an upheaval and that is daunting but you know you deserve a better life.

Don't talk to him about it.
Make your plans and leave.

So pleased to read that you’re planning to leave, please do so safely, Womens Aid and similar have advice about this. It’s better not to signal that you’re leaving at all when violence is present. He will use emotional blackmail tactics and try and hoover you back in. He’ll promise to change, cry and say he can’t live without you and so on. It’s like a script, if you go through this board these awful abusive men say the same empty promises and same threats to appeal to the “old” you that thought his bullshit about it being your fault was accurate. You know better now. It’s him not you, and he won’t change.

Good luck with leaving, you’ll find lots of support and wisdom and experience on here when you need it.

I could go on. He pushed me out of the room with both hands a few months ago too. Said it was my fault, I'd driven him to it

It couldn't be his fault could it.
What he did was assault.
It will almost certainly escalate.

he proposed to me and I have to admit my gut feeling when I saw the ring was "its not right".

I can remember being in a jewellers trying on rings and thinking 'I should be blissfully happy' but I wasn't all that excited

I feel so afraid of "losing face" as we have had so much love and excitement from people around the wedding and to rip the plaster off and deal with the inevitable upset and feelings of shame and failure feels terrifying
It will be a lot less unpleasant than what will happen if you go ahead with the wedding.

Good God, OP. My relationship is going what I consider badly at the moment and it's nothing like as bad as this. This sounds utterly toxic and even dangerous. He's not even keeping his abusive behaviour private anymore, he's humiliating you in front of friends. Has anyone said anything? I'm sure they're concerned.

I was going to ask what you're getting from it but it seems the financial aspect is a big one. My advice is that no amount of money is worth this. Move into a flatshare and get a second job if you have to.

I was in a similar situation, he wasn't abusive but he wasn't right for me. We'd been together years and had joint lives together. I suggested separating initially and then back tracked, six months later I realised my heart wasn't in it.

I found an amazing friend who wanted a lodger and I moved out, finances took a little wobble but it was such a weight off my shoulders.

I started dating and 9 months later met my husband.

Get away from this man now - before your lives become tied together with kids and shared property. Get out, get out, get out. You are worth more than this. In a way, it is a blessing that he has revealed himself like this before you married him. You get to grab your chance at happiness without him - take it.

As someone who deeply regrets not having cancelled a wedding, I can promise you that telling everyone we were (obviously) getting divorced 2 years later was 100 times worse than letting everyone know the wedding was cancelled would have been.

Do not marry this man, please.

Oh heck, so many red flags. Please get yourself away from this man. I got the first insight, first red flag, from my ex h the day before our wedding.I thought it was a one off and didn't feel I could cancel because relatives had travelled, everything was set to go. Turns out it was the first of many red flags he had kept well and truly hidden and I wasted 3 years of my life. Years later he's now been divorced 4 times that I know of. Run, don't walk away.

It's interesting how often to fail to realise the most important thing is how we feel in a relationship.

I was with a man for 20 years who while not being overtly abusive, starved me of sex, refused to communicate honestly with me and somehow made me feel incrementally neglected and ugly.

After it ended (painfully) I could see how I had put aside how I felt time and time again to ensure the relationship continued because I was terrified of losing him. Now my main regret is that it didn't end much much sooner.

Then I fell in love again with someone else, but after about 10 months some weird things started happening in the relationship. I couldn't make sense of it. Talking to him just resulted in gaslighting. I felt confused, rejected and humiliated.

I realised no way will I ever let someone make me feel bad again - ever. I left him and now I am so glad I had the good times with him, but also so glad I left before it took the inevitable path.

You know, I'm 60 and I wish I had realised earlier that nothing lasts forever. The illusion of love ever after is a killer for women. Be happy for the time you spend with someone but don't be the lobster in the pot. Get out when you feel the heat.

Listen to your feelings. If you feel bad - it's because you feel bad and how someone makes you feel is crucial.