Wedding is off hand hold please

[emarlow]

We were due to get married in 2 months time I am currently 4 months pregnant aswell. I was really looking forward to it.

Me and OH got into a disagreement the other day and he went to cool off at his parents house before coming back. When he went over there he told his mum that he doesn't want to marry me now and believes that it's the wrong thing to do to go ahead with the marriage.

We have 3 DC's together I can not imagine my life without him.

For me I feel like this is the end of the road, we have always stuck together their has been many ups and downs but I love him so much.

He said he wants to be with me but not marry me yet. I don't see the point in me hanging on to him, he can quite happily have kids with
me but doesn't want to marry me.

The kids have gone to school and I just keep crying, I have told him to just pack his things and leave I feel so humiliated.

@budgiegirl

Presumably you didn’t already have 3 children? I don’t think your situation is comparable to OP’s

No I didn't. But my point is that sometimes having the wobbles before taking the step to get married is just that, the wobbles. It doesn't necessarily mean that marriage is off the cards, or that one party is being forced into it. Sometimes it can work out - but only the OP and her fiancé can work that one out - everyone calling him a bastard, or irresponsible may be way off the mark.

I see your point - but the wobbles/cold feet are presumably because your fiancé didn’t know what married life would be like.

In this case they’re married in all but name - living together as parents of their joint children. The only thing that would change is the pooling of assets they’d have upon marriage - and even then he has nothing (as they’re in a rented house under the OP’s name).

That’s why people are being so harsh. The time for him to have had cold feet is long gone.

@urbanbuddha

Aborting the baby is a step too far imo.

Think about where you want to be when the baby is born.

It might be best to book the date in January to give you both breathing space and time to consider how you want your relationship to develop. You will always have some kind of relationship because of the children.

Take a step back from this thread - it's gone a bit bonkers.

It’s not your body. It’s not your baby. It’s not your place to decide what’s ‘too far’ or not.

@urbanbuddha

And the reason I’ve said this is because OP was the first person to say termination has crossed her mind. Not anyone else.

So he's the one who proposed and made a big deal of doing that on holiday.

Op. I'd recommend a couples councillor in RL, on your own at first to get some help to explore exactly what you want and what is best for you and your DC

I don't think he was being brave. I think it depends if this was a one off or if he's always doing things like this. I think he was having a tantrum at mummy's, and then the next day he was back doing the school run asking to come back.

Cancelling a wedding and then letting his mum tell everyone (why wasn't she telling him to calm down and talk it out with you?) is dragging all your nearest and dearest into the argument. It's very public and attention seeking. It's not a grown up way to cancel a wedding. Didn't give you a chance to tell them jointly.

If he changed his mind the next morning, it sounds as if he was hoping to inflict the max drama and attention,or he simply doesn't know what he wants and could change his mind again.

He owes you a proper and honest explanation of what he's really thinking. If marriage is not what he wants, he needs to say so and tell you why so that you don't waste more years. Which is why it might help to both talk it out with a mediator of some sort.

Then you can make your decision with the full facts. Sorry you are going through this.

Three kids and another on the way and he's not sure. What a fucking man child. I hope that's what his mother told him too.

I think he's ruined it all now really.

It just looks like he only wants to grudgingly marry you because that's a better option than living with his mother.

Maybe he can stay with his mum for a while whilst you decide what you want to do with regards to your pregnancy and your relationship

He might well have got cold feet, but he should have sat down and had an adult conversation with you if that was the case.
I think he did it to hurt and embarrass you.

@AcrossthePond55

An above PP suggested this and I'm going to reiterate it.

Keep the January date. Tell him he needs to move back in with his mother so that the both of you can really have a good hard think without interference from the other about what marriage means, commitment-wise as well as legally/financially, and whether or not marriage is right for the both of you.

It's not just him that needs to get his head on straight, you do too. What he did is a real head fuck and shook the foundation you have built your life and future on. First walking out, then coming back and claiming 'backsies'. Words once spoken never leave the listener, do they?

You need to decide how important marriage is to you. You need to decide if your trust has been broken and more importantly, if it can be repaired. But remember that even if a broken item can be repaired, the cracks usually show. Can you live with the cracks?

You also need to educate yourself as to your financial position. Because the right thing for a SAHM may be the wrong thing for a self-supporting working mum.

The problem with this idea is that firstly it absolves him of any day to day parenting responsibilities and puts everything onto the OP. Additionally he might decide he likes life at his mums, bet she cooks his tea every night, washes his clothes, changes the bed linen, cleans the house, doesn’t moan if he wants to go to the pub or watch football on the telly etc . This is a man who is shying away from commitment , the last thing he needs is time on the other side of the fence discovering that guess what, the grass over there is greener.

@viques

And if he does decide the grass in greener at Mummy's, better the OP find out what a man-child he is now, rather than after she's married him.

And OP might just find that she actually has less work overall without him in the house, despite any additional childcare.

@budgiegirl

Presumably you didn’t already have 3 children? I don’t think your situation is comparable to OP’s

No I didn't. But my point is that sometimes having the wobbles before taking the step to get married is just that, the wobbles. It doesn't necessarily mean that marriage is off the cards, or that one party is being forced into it. Sometimes it can work out - but only the OP and her fiancé can work that one out - everyone calling him a bastard, or irresponsible may be way off the mark.

I really don’t understand how someone can have a wobble on marriage with the commitment of 2 soon to be 3 kids already. It’s totally different approaching marriage as a man or woman who doesn’t have this massive commitment already. I don’t for one understand at all his reasons , do you op? Have you talked properly? There’s always a reason. You can’t get anywhere until you know it. If it’s down to it being a it of paper etc I’d be livid ! Can you find out? Definitely also delay until January

It’s unfortunately a mn perennial. Women with children and the dp won’t marry
Men who have dodged,deflected,postponed,dithered,and avoided marriage
Dismissing it as a mere bit of paper or a nonsense excuse for a party whilst their partner waits in hope & expectation

It’s appalling for these men to string women along when they have no intention to get married, they won’t actually say so. They purposefully dither and delay to the extent the marriage never happens

Conversely I read women on mn saying they’re the common law wife. Same as being his actual wife. No it isn’t at all

Women need to

Women need to be able to make a full informed choice with honest men,not be lead on by duplicitous bell ends

Surely marriage is just a ticket.you can be committed with or without being married.I know quite a few couples with children,they never married and have a committed relationship and I know more than just a few couples who married and the whole thing ended in tears......Marriage doesnt make you committed--committment comes from within with or without the churchbells.

@EspressoDoubleShot

It’s unfortunately a mn perennial. Women with children and the dp won’t marry Men who have dodged,deflected,postponed,dithered,and avoided marriage Dismissing it as a mere bit of paper or a nonsense excuse for a party whilst their partner waits in hope & expectation

It’s appalling for these men to string women along when they have no intention to get married, they won’t actually say so. They purposefully dither and delay to the extent the marriage never happens

Conversely I read women on mn saying they’re the common law wife. Same as being his actual wife. No it isn’t at all

Women need to

This is why the law needs to change. Whenever I say that though I get a flood of "Women shouldn't have babies if not married"

That's beside the point. The point is that many do...because they believe their partner will marry them.

Then they won't...and the woman has no rights or support and is 99% of the time left with all the care of the children.

If a man lives with a woman and a child is born, the man and the woman should both be financially responsible to one another by law.

OP, what is you actual financial position?

If you live in a rented house, do either of you have any equity in any other property?

Do either of you have savings/assets/pensions/anything else at all that's worth anything?

Who is the higher earner?

Given that your relationship has sadly come unstuck as a result of this, how can you ensure that you and your children are financially secure?
Are you able to ensure this, given that you are not married?

This all needs to be clear before anyone can really advise you (and even then, you need advice from a lawyer, not from MN).

@FortunesFave we don't even need a major change in the law. Just for CMS to do its job properly. Like in the U.S people can be jailed, or prevented from leaving the country for defaulting on child support payments. People (mostly men) who ignore their children should be publicly shamed.

But equally while we're waiting for that to happen education etc campaigns on what marriage actually is can be done. The amount of misinformation is terrible...

@TractorAndHeadphones I agree, not sure I was even wise about the legal and financial protections of marriage until I spent time on here. Can also see a few women commenting that it’s not a big deal basically to get married, it doesn’t change commitment, or anything etc. Everyone should educate themselves . Why wouldn’t you get married and protect yourself and your children? If a man won’t get married to provide that protection or even just because he loves you enough - he’s not committed to anyone but himself.
As others have said, if it’s just a piece of paper then surely a fight shouldn’t be put up - as it’s no big deal right? I think some men don’t want to settle in a formal sense and feel they can have one foot out the door unmarried. Or they are very aware of the financials of marriage and what they might lose if divorced.
I will certainly make sure my dd is eyes wide open on this one. See too many threads on here like this one unfortunately

What a pathetic man to think that two babies isnt enough commitment to also get married if it was on the cards previously eye roll 🙄

I think you've dodged a bullet as he isn't all in but also appreciate it leaves you vulnerable. Im so sorry OP, he's a prick

[quote TractorAndHeadphones]@FortunesFave we don't even need a major change in the law. Just for CMS to do its job properly. Like in the U.S people can be jailed, or prevented from leaving the country for defaulting on child support payments. People (mostly men) who ignore their children should be publicly shamed.

But equally while we're waiting for that to happen education etc campaigns on what marriage actually is can be done. The amount of misinformation is terrible...[/quote]
Yes it is...and we need a BIG social adjustment on the idea that only men should propose. Too much power in the hands of men. Marriage is essentially a business decision and it's been wrapped up in hearts and flowers.

@Sillawithans

You had a disagreement, he went to his mum's and then said he didn't think it was right to get married, is that right? Then there was 5/6 pages of people calling him all sorts. Wow, this place is crazy sometimes. I think he's actually been rather brave. Why did you carry on having children when you were unmarried but now he's the bad guy and now you're considering an abortion at 4 months. Yikes.

In think you both need help with this relationship.

Sooo brave to lie to a woman by actually proposing , so that she agrees to a 3rd baby since she thinks she’s in the relationship she wants. That’s actually a very expensive form of cowardice, and all paid by her.

@Guetzlibache

Surely marriage is just a ticket.you can be committed with or without being married.I know quite a few couples with children,they never married and have a committed relationship and I know more than just a few couples who married and the whole thing ended in tears......Marriage doesnt make you committed--committment comes from within with or without the churchbells.

Marriage is a bigger commitment than co-habitation because it literally enshrines 'what's mine is yours" in law. Even the most committed co-habitation and joint parenting means "what's mine is yours for as long as I feel like it, and not if things go wrong". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that lots of people don't get married for this reason, and to avoid the hassle and expense of extracting themselves from that legal contract if things go wrong. Unfortunately the patriarchy is still strong, so it's usually the woman who gives up work, goes part-time, doesn't pursue promotion etc when a couple has children. That puts unmarried women in a financially vulnerable position, and for many marriage reduces that vulnerability considerably. To dismiss it as no better than co-habitation is to be very nieve to the actual protections marriage offers.

I wouldn't marry him OP. Especially in the vulnerable position he's left you in to think about it. I wouldn't be able to think straight. I think you are a strong person from your posts and will be ok to leave him.

Everything else can work around that. But I would seek advice and counselling ASAP around having the baby and everything else in the mean time if you can. You deserve better than this.

@emarlow I’m sorry you’ve ended up in this situation. Your DP is behaving very badly.

Like several PPs I’m going to urge you to be practical which is hard when you are feeling upset. I’m sorry he has ruined the romance of his proposal but he can’t take that back now. You will always know that he changed his mind. So you need to just do the practical thing.

Purely from a financial point of view, would you be better off if you and he were sharing assets or if you kept your own? Think about savings, pensions, family money, property, salary, also debts. If you would be financially better off married to him, then do it. Hold your nose and get shared ownership of his assets. You owe it to your kids to make the best financial decision here, so allow him to prove his commitment to you.
But if you wouldn’t be better off, DO NOT marry this man. If you choose to stay with him, at least protect your assets for your kids.

@ejhhhhh.Marriage is a patriarchal institution.OP's chap ,as far as we know, has not said he is not commited to the kids.He just does not want the ticket.it is easy to pop out babies for both parts.Commitment does not naturally follow for men and women.maybe OP's chap would prefer civil partnership.Many men and women dont want an old fashioned marriage.And good for them!

If he doesn't want 'an old fashioned marriage' then the time to have said so is 3 babies ago. And he should not have proposed. It's fine not to get married but both parties need to agree from the get go that this is the plan. It is not okay to mislead - the OP has made decisions on the strength of their intention to get married, that she might not have made otherwise!