Wedding is off hand hold please

[emarlow]

We were due to get married in 2 months time I am currently 4 months pregnant aswell. I was really looking forward to it.

Me and OH got into a disagreement the other day and he went to cool off at his parents house before coming back. When he went over there he told his mum that he doesn't want to marry me now and believes that it's the wrong thing to do to go ahead with the marriage.

We have 3 DC's together I can not imagine my life without him.

For me I feel like this is the end of the road, we have always stuck together their has been many ups and downs but I love him so much.

He said he wants to be with me but not marry me yet. I don't see the point in me hanging on to him, he can quite happily have kids with
me but doesn't want to marry me.

The kids have gone to school and I just keep crying, I have told him to just pack his things and leave I feel so humiliated.

@ejhhhhh exactly!
Also I don’t know how men seem to be more aware of this than women leading to them making excuse after excuse.
I’ve told my DP that if we don’t marry after X years I’m off. No discussion, no persuasion, sign the papers or I’m leaving.

@Guetzlibache yes, a civil partnership is just as good as marriage, from a legal point of view, so the OP could decide that she wants to go down that route in preference to marriage. Or the OP could be the higher earner, have her own investments, her own pension, and stand to lose more if she were to divorce. If that's the case, then fine, co-habit, don't go down the legal route, have all the commitments that a commited relationship offers besides the financial ones. But we don't live in a perfectly equal world, where the patriarchy no longer exists, so in lots of cases it serves the interest of women to buy into the patriarchal institution that is marriage. If a woman has taken time out or limited her career because she's had children, and the man has not, in 99% of cases the legal protection that marriage or a civil partnership offers is valuable. It's disingenuous to suggest that a commited relationship is fully committed without a legal contract, because a financial commitment is missing without one, and for lots of women it's the financial implications of a relationship breakdown that are catastrophic. It's better to be in a relationship with the option of divorce and taking a share of joint assets, than it is to be forced to stay in a toxic relationship because you can't afford to leave as you'd have no money without the man, which is the position many co-habiting women find themselves in.

[quote Guetzlibache]@ejhhhhh.Marriage is a patriarchal institution.OP's chap ,as far as we know, has not said he is not commited to the kids.He just does not want the ticket.it is easy to pop out babies for both parts.Commitment does not naturally follow for men and women.maybe OP's chap would prefer civil partnership.Many men and women dont want an old fashioned marriage.And good for them![/quote]
YOU may see marriage as old fashioned, many people don't. Marriage is still popular even among quite young couples.

I hope your friends who have children and are not married have put plans in place for any future event so they would not be left high and dry.

So many people seem to think there is such a thing as common law marriage and they really need to realise there isn't

[quote ejhhhhh]@Guetzlibache yes, a civil partnership is just as good as marriage, from a legal point of view, so the OP could decide that she wants to go down that route in preference to marriage. Or the OP could be the higher earner, have her own investments, her own pension, and stand to lose more if she were to divorce. If that's the case, then fine, co-habit, don't go down the legal route, have all the commitments that a commited relationship offers besides the financial ones. But we don't live in a perfectly equal world, where the patriarchy no longer exists, so in lots of cases it serves the interest of women to buy into the patriarchal institution that is marriage. If a woman has taken time out or limited her career because she's had children, and the man has not, in 99% of cases the legal protection that marriage or a civil partnership offers is valuable. It's disingenuous to suggest that a commited relationship is fully committed without a legal contract, because a financial commitment is missing without one, and for lots of women it's the financial implications of a relationship breakdown that are catastrophic. It's better to be in a relationship with the option of divorce and taking a share of joint assets, than it is to be forced to stay in a toxic relationship because you can't afford to leave as you'd have no money without the man, which is the position many co-habiting women find themselves in.[/quote]
@Guetzlibache
Plus - it’s fine if someone doesn’t want to get married or wants a civil ceremony - but this isn’t the case here at all. He proposed, they got pregnant again on the basis of marriage ahead and he’s left it til a couple of months before to back track. Totally unfair on op and has left her pregnant, anxious and ready to leave

2 DC without marriage and without home ownership even. The foundations were never laid before DC, so the family has always been in a risky position. Love has been likened to a type of madness, that warm squishy feeling when he proposed in Jamaica, is that what lead to another DC? In your mind have you seen a DC as the expression of love and commitment? Because DC are never that sadly, and too many women seem to think a man will stick by them once DC come along.
It's about time there was some education in schools about the financial and social responsibilities of having DC. I'm not saying indoctrinate everyone who has a DC to be married first. I'm saying give information about how legal and financial responsibility goes under various scenarios, then women and men can have a choice on the basis of knowledge rather than pure emotion.
That the OP's gut reaction was to contemplate abortion, shows that having them was tied to emotions, hence wanting to react and reject her DP, has tied in with thoughts of rejecting a DC.
Clearly the OP is an emotional person, and it's heightened by hormones currently. Being at least 16 weeks gone, it's not going to happen, The OP was just sounding off and once again showing that she's based some fundamental decisions on feelings rather than logic and reality.
The best you can do op, is take your time, there is no rush. Don't rush to have him back, let him stay at his Mum's.
Like you, your DP has made decisions based on emotion rather than logic. You are probably quite alike in that. When he told you after an argument that marriage was not going to happen, that was him getting back at you as he was angry, but at the time, did he think that this would mean the relationship would be over and life ahead would entail him living back with his parents and you both co-parenting in the future? I bet he didn't consider the ramifications of what he has done when he said it. So, show him for a while what a future without him being part of your family will look like. He's been thoughtless, now he needs to start thinking and realise what he's done. He's only going to understand what a big deal this is if you make him keep his distance and you both need time to calm dow and, for once, think rationally about where you go from here.

@ejhhhhh.Marriage is a patriarchal institution.OP's chap ,as far as we know, has not said he is not commited to the kids.He just does not want the ticket.it is easy to pop out babies for both parts.Commitment does not naturally follow for men and women.maybe OP's chap would prefer civil partnership.Many men and women dont want an old fashioned marriage.And good for them!

I turned down my proposal because I didn't want 'wife' on my CV or for people to expect the things they still tend to expect from wives in patriarcy - i.e. put his career first, do wifework, etc.

But the thing is we organised our finaces legally and I always put my financial security first.

To me, that is more important than marriage.

It's about time there was some education in schools about the financial and social responsibilities of having DC.

And what about parental responsibility to educate? Schools blamed again.

@0pentooffers.you expressed your thoughts far more eloquently than I did(english is not my mother language).i agree with you.Emotions on both sides seem to run high and a more rational approach to the situation would be beneficial to both OP and her chap.

@mydogisthebest.yes,they did.They didnt produce children in the hope the other one would eventually agree to a sugar coated weddiing.they communicated and.they were both happy to work each part time so each can enjoy the children.they adjusted their lifestyle and needs accordingly.of course nobody ever has a guarantee things will work out(thats life).but if you as a couple had good communication before DC came along,you have a much better chance to cope and keep a cool head when things dont go to plan.OP tried 3 times with a child to make her chap marry her(and admittedly he is a fool too).This is a very bad start for any child and adult.

I don't know what I would do if I were you OP. He's sort of ruined your wedding regardless now. You'll stand there thinking "he doesn't want to do this" and that's the last thing you should be feeling. Pregnant as well. He's taken that from you. I'm livid on your behalf.

I don't think I could stand there in front of everyone and go through with a bells and whistles ceremony after he'd done that. Especially not with his twatty mother stood there. How much have you paid for OP, and how much can you cancel? Still have a marriage performed, get your legal document, but can just you, he and two witnesses go to a registry office? I know this is supposed to be your one wedding day, but he's fucked it now, and I don't know if you'll ever forgive him. But it is important you get that piece of paper for your future security.

You only have to read @Sadandsillybunny post to see the ramifications. Bunny, I'm so sorry for your loss xx

@BluebellsGreenbells

It's about time there was some education in schools about the financial and social responsibilities of having DC.

And what about parental responsibility to educate? Schools blamed again.

Some parents are useless and if the schools don't help, those children are just going to repeat the same cycle. Perfect if you don't want social mobility but unfair on the children who get left behind through no fault of their own. At least if schools helped they'd have the knowledge to make informed decisions if they want to.

Of course rather than an old fashioned campaign/leaving it to schools we could do what big corporate does when they want to influence people.

But then you’ll have a big backlash from people complain that’s it’s ‘judging’ unmarried mothers

[quote Guetzlibache]@mydogisthebest.yes,they did.They didnt produce children in the hope the other one would eventually agree to a sugar coated weddiing.they communicated and.they were both happy to work each part time so each can enjoy the children.they adjusted their lifestyle and needs accordingly.of course nobody ever has a guarantee things will work out(thats life).but if you as a couple had good communication before DC came along,you have a much better chance to cope and keep a cool head when things dont go to plan.OP tried 3 times with a child to make her chap marry her(and admittedly he is a fool too).This is a very bad start for any child and adult.[/quote]
Good to hear. Although I am a very strong believer in marriage as is DH, I don't see anything wrong in having children and not being married as long as both are happy with it and your affairs are in order so if one dies or walks away the other is not left struggling or unable to make any decisions because they are not next of kin etc.

I do think far too many people think common law marriage exists and that is worrying. On a recent facebook post someone was insisting that if a couple had lived together for over 5 years then it definitely was deemed by law as a common law marriage. A few posters even agreed!

[quote Guetzlibache]@ejhhhhh.Marriage is a patriarchal institution.OP's chap ,as far as we know, has not said he is not commited to the kids.He just does not want the ticket.it is easy to pop out babies for both parts.Commitment does not naturally follow for men and women.maybe OP's chap would prefer civil partnership.Many men and women dont want an old fashioned marriage.And good for them![/quote]
Marriage is a patriarchal institution if the partners make it so. The problem is that quite often their expectations and interpretations of the implications of marriage are not aligned. And that applies to unmarried partnerships just as much as marriages. Unfortunately it is usually the woman who gets shafted, particularly if, as you so thoughtfully put it, she 'pops out babies'. Because by and large it's the mother who takes the financial hit, with long term consequences that do not bear thinking about but are nevertheless real.

Literally millions of women face poverty in retirement because they focused on their children rather than their careers, and yes, to some extent this is the result of the patriarchal society we still live in. Yes, women do need to be more clued up and think about themselves and their interests more. Because it is a given that men will almost always do just that. Even in this day and age, and even with the best of men, the mother risks falling behind financially unless she is both extremely focused on her career and in a job that pays as well as her partner's.

Because, at the end of the day, fathers can basically walk away if it suits them.

In the OP's case, her partner promised marriage, which is what she wants. Not a partnership and all its uncertainties. Yes, she may have been somewhat foolish to trust him, but this doesn't invalidate her outrage and distress when he casually dismissed said promise and decamped back to his mummy.

@Guetzlibache - these are the realities of the situation, your valid thoughts about the patriarchy nothwithstanding. Do go bake some Mailänderli while you ponder some more about these complex issues

@ FlowerArranger.I might even promise to bake some Basler Läckerli,but it is just a promise..and as we know promises can sadly be broken.

Im so sorry OP

@Guetzlibache

@ FlowerArranger.I might even promise to bake some Basler Läckerli,but it is just a promise..and as we know promises can sadly be broken.

Indeed... some people keep promises, others dont give a flying fuck don't...

I see your Baser Läckerlis and raise you an Aargauer Rüeblitorte... LOL

@FlowerArranger