I did a thing. Was it bad?

[turnabouttime]

Okaaaaay so, I did something kind of big and I'm now watching the repercussions kind of feeling guilty, kind of not and honestly? Kind of fascinated. So I found out someone I knew was cheating on his gf. So I sent an anonymous letter to the gf outlining the betrayal. She's gone ballistic and dumped him. She is really upset. He has blamed the OW for blabbing. He is freaking out as he promotes himself as having very highly morals and never cheating. She and he are mid 20s. OW is early 30s. Was I evil?

@DrSbaitso

A cheap shot to suggest I am comparing a child being killed by his stepmother, against being cheated on by a husband

Your words, in a discussion about the ethics of anonymous notes exposing cheaters: "If you want proof of how not acting anonymously can change the course of someone's life or future read the current thread on chat that is covering the Arthur Labinjo Huges case, which is currently on trial at the moment."

It's clearly a direct comparison, trying to draw a moral parallel between the two. People can read it for themselves. If you now regret it, as you should, then retract it. There's no shame in that; quite the opposite.

The only cheap shot here is you bringing up my irrelevant sexual history to try to suggest I don't have sexual ethics. You have the details wrong anyway (yes, I was vague. Conjecture sucks!), and as I believe I said in that post, everything was open, honest and above board in that long ago time of my life. Yes, it is one reason why my view of affairs is a bit more nuanced. That's not because I had any, because I didn't, or to say affairs are OK, because they aren't. It's simply because it helped me to see that it is possible to have sexual experiences with other people, and still love your main partner just as much.

I am sorry you are a betrayed wife. I would not wish that on anyone.

I do not recall you stating everything was open and above board, yes you and I were on a thread about non monogomy and polyamory but my experience and knowledge is the people in those relationships do not condone affairs, their relationships involve honesty and full disclosure of all parties.

I do not see their views as being nuansed on affairs, as I believe they avoid and resist all forms of lying, cheating and betrayal.

You admit your circumstances have changed and you no longer wished to experience that 'type' of life or view anymore, does that mean if your current partner were to have an affair your views may not be quite so nuansed.?

I don’t think you are evil at all. The GF deserved to know that she was being cheated on. He can be as angry as he wants but at the end of the day he shouldn’t have been doing what he was doing. I don’t see it as underhanded or awful to not want to be personally dragged into it either. So often in these cases the partner doesn’t want to believe the truth and the person who lets them know gets blamed and anger shown towards them so I wouldn’t really want to put my name to it either. I think you’ve done her a favour. She is heartbroken now but hopefully she will move on and find someone who will treat her better.

@Shadowsaftertherain

You did a thing. It wasn’t your business. You upset other people beyond the guy you dislike. It was vile behaviour. End of, Stop being fascinated and start being ashamed. What goes around comes around.

Had she kept silent, she would have only been helping the cheater and the OW. The only people who should be ashamed in this situation is them, it's their behaviour that is vile (and deserve to be upset) and the boyfriend's fault that the girlfriend is upset because she would have nothing to be upset about if he wasn't cheating. Unless the OP plans to cheat on her partner or be a side piece, I don't think she has to worry about what goes around comes around. She could end up being in the girlfriend's situation someday but being told that she is with cheater is a good thing. A person deserves to be able to choose if they want to be with a person who is sleeping with others (and have the opportunity to do the same) not to basically be deceived into an "open relationship" and be faithful to their non faithful partner. The poor girlfriend could have ended up wasting decades of her life in a relationship she thought was monogamous had the OP not told her. The boyfriend and OW on the hand should be prepared for what comes around, goes around because karma is likely not going to be kind to them.

I have noticed that several times, OP, you have mentioned about one of your concerns being that he is having unprotected sex with multiple partners - and this is one of your reasons for the letter. I'm curious how you'd know this - seeing as you don't know any party particularly well. Are you assuming that its unprotected sex? Have one of them told you? Or are you perhaps working in sexual-health, and have found out through your job? I'm genuinely curious.

So, I've just caught up and seen your post saying you're not 100% sure they're having unprotected sex. It just seems odd. The reason you assume that he's not wearing a condom is because he basically gaslights women, making them feel they don't want him to wear one. And you know this because it's a small village - so I assume you know other women who have slept with him - or perhaps you have in the past? I don't know, it just all feels messy, like there's more going on than meets the eye. Maybe I'm wrong and reading more into it than is there.

Well it seems that for now, GF has decided to stick with him. Not sure if she believed what I wrote or if he convinced her that it was not true. But at least if she has doubts in future, she will have some clue rather than think she is imagining things. I really don't want to control peoples lives but I genuinely just wanted gf know have knowledge rather than being in the dark. To all the posters query how I know some of the facts, I just do. This isn't about how in know and not revealing how I know doesn't invalidate anything. I just don't want to be too revealing for obvious reasons

^ This. Exactly. I am not willing to give my real life name here, and unless anyone who is moaning at the OP for being anonymous is doing so under their RLN please stop with the bitchiness about it.

I am of the "you did the right thing" brigade. Unprotected sex with not one, but two "other" women is bloody bad news. I bet he is a smug bastard, too. No. Any bloke who plays women in this way is a despicable little shit, who deserved to be dumped. But more to the point, his gf DESERVED to know.

Well done OP!

All the people shouting about it being a nasty thing to do , who has she been nasty to here?

Is he your ex, op?

I do not recall you stating everything was open and above board

Well, it was. It was a thread about polyamory/non monogamy, not cheating, so I probably didn't feel the need to clarify that.

yes you and I were on a thread about non monogomy and polyamory but my experience and knowledge is the people in those relationships do not condone affairs, their relationships involve honesty and full disclosure of all parties.

Correct. You therefore had no reason to think that I am or was any different, or to complain that I didn't specify that. Except, of course, to try to weaponise my sexuality because you don't like what I'm saying. Nice.

I do not see their views as being nuansed on affairs, as I believe they avoid and resist all forms of lying, cheating and betrayal.

They do. But like I said, it did show me that it's possible to have sexual experiences outside the main relationship without losing any love. That is a very different thing to excusing cheating, but it's just one part of a background of experiences that shapes how I feel about the issue. You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, I won't automatically assume that you can't possibly love your spouse.

You admit your circumstances have changed and you no longer wished to experience that 'type' of life or view anymore, does that mean if your current partner were to have an affair your views may not be quite so nuansed.

I don't actually owe you any explanation of my sexual choices.

But as I said in the post you pounced on, as if it were relevant: I was starting to think about children and it wasn't something that would be compatible with me, personally, as a mother of young kids. It was a brief period of curiosity.

As for how I'd feel if my husband cheated: it depends. It depends on the situation, why he did it, what he's doing to make good etc. I might be absolutely devastated and unable to get past it, or I might see how he had come to make such a bad choice; it just depends.

I can't give you easy and simplistic, pat answers. Affairs are very wrong. But I just don't subscribe to the MN view that every single person who ever does it is an irredeemably evil human who deserves misery at all costs in the future (innocent families totally worth the sacrifice to that end, enjoyable to watch, even), who doesn't love their spouse and so on. Or that it's the only way to wreck a marriage. Some people who have affairs are truly just shit people being shits, but very often it just isn't quite that straightforward.

And I dislike the misogyny that shrouds discussions around it. That's one reason why you see me on those threads a lot. The sexual double standards are all over the shop and it pisses me off.

Let's keep the blame firmly on the partner as it should be

@Onthedunes

Again you deliberately misunderstood.

That case is important as many people have been left asking why more people did not intervene anonymously, they were not expected to reveal themselves, there is so much regret and remorse for not acting anonymously.

The op acted upon her concience, against an injustice, whether you feel that injustice is is great enough is neither here nor there, it was her own weight of justice that decided her actions.

And there you are, clearly drawing a moral parallel. How can you deny it? What's its relevance if you're not making them comparable?

Whistleblowing on a child safeguarding issue is light years away from sending anonymous letters about legal and consensual adult relationships, even if they are illicit. An affair is not child abuse or child murder. If you really think they're comparable, you've got no right to start appointing yourself the moral arbiter of "justice", with all the conveniently godlike rights to interfere in the private lives of strangers while protecting your own interests...and all while telling yourself you've done the equivalent of saving a child's life.

Listen to yourself!

@DrSbaitso reading your posts it is clear you minimise the impact of affairs.

You are very logical in your thinking but you clearly have a ‘frame of reference’ in your own life experience to empathise with a cheater and the other women, that’s fair enough, I get that. I acknowledge that you say you have not been either, you just understand. I’m a betrayed in reconciliation, a rare beast on here and one who can absolutely see the nuances. Otherwise I wouldn’t be where I am.

What you do not understand is the impact of infidelity on the spouse. How can you? I had no idea until I experienced it. I ‘probably’ sat more in your camp. And there lies the rub, your arguments are coming from a place of never having experienced the confusion prior to discovery. The moments where you can’t understand why your partner smells so weird, why they’re so off with you, snarling at you and the kids, why they’re attached to their phone, why they have new moves in the bedroom.

OR the days where you are planning treats for them, birthday surprises, full of joy at your love for them and then you find that those were the days they’d had their hook ups. And you find out that at these hookups your future and that of YOUR young children was being discussed.

These are the days that HAUNT you, these are the days you play as mine movies over and over in your head. These are the days that traumatise you. You’d happily leave a betrayed spouse living more of those days, rather than send an anonymous note?

You are not listening to betrayed on here, and that is so sad. We are telling you every one of these haunts us and you’d give us more?

My life became better once I knew, I crashed but then I rose, it was worse not knowing, being gaslit, being lied to, being cheated on.

[quote Tiredofbs123]@DrSbaitso reading your posts it is clear you minimise the impact of affairs.

You are very logical in your thinking but you clearly have a ‘frame of reference’ in your own life experience to empathise with a cheater and the other women, that’s fair enough, I get that. I acknowledge that you say you have not been either, you just understand. I’m a betrayed in reconciliation, a rare beast on here and one who can absolutely see the nuances. Otherwise I wouldn’t be where I am.

What you do not understand is the impact of infidelity on the spouse. How can you? I had no idea until I experienced it. I ‘probably’ sat more in your camp. And there lies the rub, your arguments are coming from a place of never having experienced the confusion prior to discovery. The moments where you can’t understand why your partner smells so weird, why they’re so off with you, snarling at you and the kids, why they’re attached to their phone, why they have new moves in the bedroom.

OR the days where you are planning treats for them, birthday surprises, full of joy at your love for them and then you find that those were the days they’d had their hook ups. And you find out that at these hookups your future and that of YOUR young children was being discussed.

These are the days that HAUNT you, these are the days you play as mine movies over and over in your head. These are the days that traumatise you. You’d happily leave a betrayed spouse living more of those days, rather than send an anonymous note?

You are not listening to betrayed on here, and that is so sad. We are telling you every one of these haunts us and you’d give us more?

My life became better once I knew, I crashed but then I rose, it was worse not knowing, being gaslit, being lied to, being cheated on.[/quote]
Brilliantly put. I'm sure Dr Sbaitso will come back at you to explain to you why you don't understand and she knows so much better but this has articulated how I feel about it. How you can think it's better for someone to live in ignorance is just so patronising. And to paint that view as somehow less misogynistic 🙄.

@DrSbaitso

i just wanted to stay focused on my points first rather than get bogged down in the details of a philosophical debate on the merits of being anonymous.

Your points were about anonymity. You asked: "why should the messenger be the one that takes the risks" and tried to justify it with "the main method is a message in secret to help the g/f thats being cheated on."

What other points? You mean the ones about "what if my evidence is too shit to convince anyone?"? Well then maybe you don't know as much as you think!

Or the utterly risible suggestion that because I'm against anonymous notes, I'm pro-cheating?

Are you trying to make my argument for me?

I personally would rather not be told at all than told via some craven anonymous note. I may be a minority on MN for that, but I'm sure I'm not the only one in the world. I find it contemptible. If you believe you have the right to make permanent changes to my life, you can damn well at least tell me who you are. My husband's infidelity doesn't negate your own independent brand of dishonesty and self-serving obfuscation.

No one is making choices for the person who has been betrayed. All that is happening is that they are given the chance to make an informed choice. They can choose to stay with their partner. The only person who is being dishonest is the adulterer. And to not point out that they are being the greatest obfusticator is taking arguing your case, while avoiding balance to a new level.

What you do not understand is the impact of infidelity on the spouse...You are not listening to betrayed on here, and that is so sad. We are telling you every one of these haunts us and you’d give us more?

Well, there was a betrayed wife on here earlier saying that she didn't appreciate her teller remaining anonymous, and she got told that she was wrong, so...

I'm not telling any betrayed spouses how they should feel about it. The fact that it's so devastating is why I wouldn't just go in lightly, all gung ho in my presumed moral righteousness, no matter how little I knew about the situation.

Listening to the betrayed is exactly what I think people should do before blundering in. Not everyone feels the same. That's why, if you're a stranger or near enough, I'll stay out until I know better what you want. If I knew you well enough to know you'd rather know, then I would tell you, openly and while remaining a support to you.

And if I think what I'm doing is worth the effect on you, I'll take whatever the effect is on me as well.

you clearly have a ‘frame of reference’ in your own life experience to empathise with a cheater and the other women

This offensive bullshit implication again. You say you used to think as I do: did you have a "frame of reference" that meant you "empathised" with infidelity?

I think it might be time for a weekend.

I would be very grateful if you did this for me.

You did the right thing.
I also think it's pretty self aware that you're wondering about the more confusing feelings you're having. Sadly it's part of human nature, which is mostly made up of of grey areas.
And yes absolutely, as many others have said, all this Pearl clutching about anonymous involvement and enjoyment of drama, when we are all on a site where we basically behave as anonymous voyeurs of others' drama is hugely ironic.

@DrSbaitso I see this a lot in your posts, you deliberately misunderstand, call things bullshit and take offence, when you clearly have no argument left. 🙄

I was told anonymously that my ex cheated. While finding out about the cheating was devastating, I was glad I was told. I didn’t care particularly that it was anonymous, it became obvious that quite a few mutual friends/acquaintances knew so I was just glad one of them had bothered to tell me instead of just turning a blind eye like everyone else.
11 years on and I still don’t know who it was. I don’t care. I’ll always be grateful to them for stopping me from wasting even more of my life with him.

And I don’t think knowing who it was would have helped me particularly.

Why the attacks on @DrSbaitso? You don't have to agree with their position to appreciate their views. Suddenly they have to have a 'frame of reference' and are being accused of cheating because they're calling out open misogyny?
Cheating doesn't just come about because one partner doesn't love the other or wants to leave or wants another relationship. It can be any, all or none of those things.
If you feel the need to tell someone they're being cheated on, that's up to you. If they decide to stay with the person, that's up to them.
Anyone else having differing views on cheating and fidelity don't make you wrong. But you don't make them wrong either.

And I've been cheated on, for your frame of reference. More than once. Each time was different and warranted a different response.

Wouldn't we all want to know if we were being cheated on? I certainly would! You did the right thing.