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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Have i just been an idiot and destroyed things?

803 replies

abersterol · 05/10/2021 16:00

A year ago today I met the man I am currently with. He’s 39, I was 35 last week. When we met I was very clear I wanted to settle down and have a family. He said the same. He has a job that means he works 7am to usually half 8 (this is relevant I think).

In short, we’ve had brief sex twice, both times for about two minutes and then he stops. We’ve had other intimacy, he goes down on me and I on him, he’s hard when we kiss and he’s into cuddling and is quite affectionate that way. I’ve asked him why he’s reluctant to have proper full sex (we’ve done it twice and the last time was in may). I’ve asked him literally everything I could think of, gone through all the possible anxieties, worries or concerns he may have from sti to performance and everything in between. I’ve sat and held his hand and said whatever the issue is I’m here to work through it with him. I’ve also asked outright if he just doesn’t like sex. His answer is always the same: he wants sex, he wants that with me, he doesn’t have a reason why we haven’t developed that side to the relationship and he can’t promise me when we will do it but he knows he wants to at some point. So what happens is I leave it, a week or two, then obviously we do other things and he ejaculates with a blow job and things carry on, but I start feeling upset about the fact there’s no progress with sex and no answer as to why we are no doing it. He recently told me the last time he did have sex was 7 years ago. He’s not had a relationship for a long time and the longest has been much shorter than ours at a few weeks/months. I wondered if he was worried about performance but I’ve asked sensitively about that too and he says not.

That’s issue one.

Issue two is that since June I’ve been trying to book a short break from Saturday to Monday, to go away for a long weekend together. He’s not keen on taking time off/started a new job recently so said he doesn’t know if he can etc. I’ve said it’s just one day of annual leave. He’s said he can’t go abroad or go far as he just doesn’t want to do that right now with work. I’m not exactly sure why as his colleagues go away and they’re in the same role but he seems to find it all stressful. Eventually he agreed to ask to take a Monday off in October and so I booked somewhere an hour away, just for a change of scenery. It turns out he didn’t ask work/couldn’t take it off in the end. He’s not suggested another weekend or even said let’s just have a night away on a Saturday instead which I would have thought was a compromise. I know this is a bit of a first world problem and if the relationship is good then maybe I should stop complaining about something like this, but I guess it had upset me he didn’t want to find any extra time to share together. Again with this I was very patient, he said he did want to go away but didn’t know when etc etc. So I emailed him some dates and hotels and asked which he liked. He said he liked one of them and so I said I would provisionally book. Then he makes zero steps to organise it with his work or suggest an alternative. It makes me feel a bit messed around.

All this came to a head a few nights ago. We’d had a nice meal and come home and were watching a film, kissing etc. I suggested sex and he just stopped and shook his head. I asked why and he shook his head and didn’t answer. I got really upset. Said we’d had a nice night, if you want sex like you’ve said then why aren’t you doing that… it escalated.

I said it wasn’t normal to say you want sex and then not do it. I said he was weird for not wanting to go away together and do something nice and that most normal people in an adult relationship would appreciate me taking time to fit in with them and find somewhere nice to go for a two night break once in a year. I said he was selfish for not listening to me or compromising, said he was making me miserable and why couldn’t he at least understand that as a couple he should be honest and if he wants us to be together he needs to understand that you have to compromise. I said it was obvious why he had never had a relationship before. I said he was a bastard for playing games (no idea if he is but it felt that way). I asked him if he just wanted to break up because I couldn’t understand why he would treat me this way. I also raised the fact that in summer he would only see me briefly on a Sunday night for a few weeks and wouldn’t go for a meal or do anything as he had an interview coming up. It was a huge interview to be fair to him but I found it all a bit odd and extreme and said it was hurtful at the time.

He got upset and then defensive, said he does compromise to be with me because he spends all his free time with me outside work …that is mostly true he does but I said that’s not compromising, that’s just having the relationship. He said he would usually work later than he does it it wasn’t for me, so therefore it was a compromise Hmm

It ended with him saying I clearly thought he was inadequate and therefore he couldn’t meet my needs and I had been horrible to him and that changed how he felt now.

We had some breathing space and reconvened when calmed down but even then he was reluctant to actually talk about things rationally. He didn’t say much and I still have no idea when he wants sex other than he told me that the last two weeks he was too tired after work. He didn’t explain the last 11 months though.

Aside from these things we have had a lovely relationship. I do love him. He’s said the same to me. We’ve had some lovely times and I honestly thought he was the person I would be with.

Have I ruined it this by flying off the handle and saying horrible things in anger? I feel terrible and he is saying he questions the whole relationship after how I snapped. I am conflicted because I know I have been so patient and loving and kind in the past about these things. I’ve told him i support him and there’s no pressure and I’ve generally tried to be lighthearted about trips away and sex but obviously have mentioned it intermittently as time has gone on. He’s a nice person but his reaction to my outburst seems to be to ignore why it happened and to have a reason to withdraw further rather than sitting down together and having a chat about how we can work on things. Have i messed this all up? I also feel desperately sad at the thought of starting again at this age. It scares me. I probably sound pathetic here but IRL I have a good job and I’m usually quite together and positive :(

OP posts:
zonky · 21/10/2021 10:45

Therapies are a waste of time, I've found. You get caught up in the mumbo jumbo of it for years, while life is passing you by. The best thing I ever did was to ditch 'therapy' and start trusting myself

Cavagirl · 21/10/2021 10:46

I know I need to but it is overwhelmingly distressing to talk about things that were said to me as a child, because they will littered in an background of huge privilege.

Can you expand a bit more about what you mean here, OP?

I try to forget a lot of it, though there were happy times too. Does everyone try and forget parts of childhood?

No, they don't. Not if it was a happy, abuse-free childhood.

You can't shortcut this, I'm afraid OP. You need to unpick what you've been taught by your parents as relationship behaviours, your self worth and, ultimately, what love is.

And of course it's not too late. 35 is very young. You'll find plenty of people on here who didn't start looking at this stuff until they retired! You're ahead of the game if you start now because I'm afraid you will always have to do it one day.Flowers

Shuffleuplove · 21/10/2021 10:46

Prize to @zonky for silliest post. Funnily enough Zonky, this thread isn’t about you.

zonky · 21/10/2021 10:51

@Shuffleuplove

Prize to *@zonky* for silliest post. Funnily enough Zonky, this thread isn’t about you.
Not all therapies are useless... The thing is you only realise this after you've wastes time. Claiming that it will be of use (and years of damage to undo) is ambitious.

She's 35...how much time does she have to waste?

zonky · 21/10/2021 10:52

Some people like to ruminate/naval-gaze, blame themselves, their childhood..all the while your life is passing you by ad you're miserable

abersterol · 21/10/2021 10:59

@zonky that is my fear that I will get bogged down in it all. I don’t know. When I am in my stronger moments I know some of it wasn’t right but it’s hard for me to put into practice fixing it moving forward

OP posts:
Glitterybug · 21/10/2021 11:01

Therapies are a waste of time, I've found. You get caught up in the mumbo jumbo of it for years, while life is passing you by. The best thing I ever did was to ditch 'therapy' and start trusting myself

Bully for you. Not so easy when abuse has taught you not to trust yourself. Personally, therapy saved my life and has enabled me to move past a lot of things that have happened to me. Telling someone who is already in therapy that therapy doesnt work as some kind of blanket statement is not very helpful, is it? All therapy? Have you tried all therapy? Counseling is different to CBT, which is different to EMDR. If all therapy did the same thing in the same way there wouldn't be much point in having different types.

Maybe you just need to be open minded and i get the feeling you are not. You not finding therapy helpful doesnt make you better than those who do. In fact, saying such a thing and dismissing it as navel gazing and mumbo jumbo makes you sound like a right idiot.

But I'm not going to derail op's thread arguing about the effectiveness of therapy with you. She's giving it a try and if she is engaged with it it's more likely to help.

FluffyFlower · 21/10/2021 11:12

You don't have to go into psychoanalysis if you are not comfortable untangling your childhood (although not saying this cannot be beneficial). CBT for example helps cope with overwhelming thoughts, anxiety, obsession etc. Also no one is talking here about a lifelong therapy, in many cases a course of 8-10 sessions is all you need.
True, therapy alone is not a panacea, a lot depends on willingness to work on yourself, control your thoughts and watch your patterns.

DFOD · 21/10/2021 11:30

@zonky

Therapies are a waste of time, I've found. You get caught up in the mumbo jumbo of it for years, while life is passing you by. The best thing I ever did was to ditch 'therapy' and start trusting myself
It seems that therapy totally worked for your as the sole goal of therapy is have the ability to trust yourself.
DFOD · 21/10/2021 11:36

[quote abersterol]@FluffyFlower my therapist wants to go into this sort of stuff next time and I don’t want to. I know I need to but it is overwhelmingly distressing to talk about things that were said to me as a child, because they will littered in an background of huge privilege. My parents were also from horribly abusive, yet very wealthy, backgrounds. They are not like their parents and took lots of steps to break that chain of abuse, but sadly some of it is still apparent. They know no different, I am sure of that. But I feel scared to even think to my childhood. I try to forget a lot of it, though there were happy times too. Does everyone try and forget parts of childhood? I don’t know if that’s natural. Obviously not all of childhood is happy in any instance is it, regardless of abuse.

I feel like I’m far too old to address all this now, and worse, if I do, what if I open up a lot of pain that then sets me back for a while?[/quote]
The tragedy here is that if you don’t address / resolve your childhood issues in therapy you will bring another level of dysfunctional and inadequacy inadvertently to your own DC - carrying on the intergenerational trauma in a different way.

The reason is that your poor parenting has left you emotionally deficient (as evidenced by the relationship you endured and your dysregulated stuckness and cognitive dissonance around it) - thus inadequacy plays out in parenting another generation. Keep up with your therapy it can heal those issues.

zonky · 21/10/2021 12:18

@DFOD

"It seems that therapy totally worked for your as the sole goal of therapy is have the ability to trust yourself."

Lol, 6 months for it to 'work' ...or maybe it was my common sense that worked an saved me hours.days.weeks not to mention the money I'd saved!

ChargingBuck · 21/10/2021 12:21

Both comments seemed odd to me, almost like he saw me as this friend he was just talking about HIS life to

"Almost"?
Aber, it's time to accept that this is how he saw you.
Everything else was mere words. He told you what you wanted to hear, because he wanted to keep you around - but only on HIS terms. He possibly also liked being seen to have a 'girlfriend'. You were a Beard to disguise his oddness.

He kept selling you "jam tomorrow" & because you didn't have a healthy model of what love & relationships feel like, from your parents, & because you've clearly been in relationships bad enough to include finger-breaking, you had no basis from which to confidently tell yourself "enough of this bullshit already."

But finally, 30 pages into your thread, you are getting to the heart of what is wrong, & what needs addressing.

When you say, about therapy, that is my fear that I will get bogged down in it all. I don’t know. When I am in my stronger moments I know some of it wasn’t right but it’s hard for me to put into practice fixing it moving forward - this is the equivalent of refusing medical help for a broken collarbone, because the initial re-set is so horribly painful.
But without that re-set, your collarbone will never heal, & you will be in pain, & twisted up, for the rest of your life.

It sounds like you don't yet feel confident enough in your therapist to fully open up to her. That's ok - you have to go at your own pace - but. as I'm sure many PP's have suspected from page 1, is NOT this oddball man. Your problem is your childhood, & I hope you persevere with your therapist until you can trust her enough to get some real help here.

Again - you are not alone in this.
Most of us who have survived indifferent, bad or even downright abusive relationships understand that the roots of the problem were not the relationship itself, but our inability to walk away from it.
And that inability stemmed entirely from our own dysfunctional childhoods.

You have already walked from this relationship, & that's a fact despite you re-framing the narrative to sell yourself the notion that Mr Oddball had left you. You maintained a boundary, & he couldn't cope, so you went away on your own. That was your sense of self finally saying "enough!" & you should be mighty proud of yourself & celebrating it.

I hope you make part of that celebration a renewed commitment to full engagement with therapy, & getting that painful collarbone re-set.

ChargingBuck · 21/10/2021 12:22

[quote zonky]@DFOD

"It seems that therapy totally worked for your as the sole goal of therapy is have the ability to trust yourself."

Lol, 6 months for it to 'work' ...or maybe it was my common sense that worked an saved me hours.days.weeks not to mention the money I'd saved![/quote]
You think 6 months is a long time?
Out of a whole lifetime?

Maybe it just took 6 months for you to find or re-engage with your own common sense. Sounds like a good investment to me.

PinotPony · 21/10/2021 12:27

Your low self esteem is very evident from your posts. You settled for a crap relationship. You thought that muddling along in a companionship was the same as a fulfilling relationship. You blame yourself for this relationship failing.

It's ok to be sad and disappointed but please try to stop ruminated on why it went wrong and if you should've acted differently. He wasn't right for you. It's a simple as that. You achieve nothing by re-imagining the past and going over it all endlessly.

Focus on you. What do YOU want in your life to make you happy? (Clue - it's not a man!) Find the things you can like about yourself. Be a good friend. Learn a new hobby. Build yourself up. Then, when you do meet someone new, you'll have a better sense of what you're worth and how you deserve to be treated.

zonky · 21/10/2021 12:35

@DFOD

saved!

You think 6 months is a long time?
Out of a whole lifetime?

Maybe it just took 6 months for you to find or re-engage with your own common sense. Sounds like a good investment to me.

Why are you so convinced therapies work?!
Are you a therapist? Therapies are like dating apps - the creators need your money lol

CecilieRose · 21/10/2021 12:41

@anthurium but not everyone is you. Not everyone wants to do things the way you do. It's actually quite unacceptable to insist that a grown adult doesn't know their own mind and to push their boundaries. Especially when it involves creating a new life and bringing up a child. It's not something to take lightly and if OP says she doesn't want to do it alone, that should be that. Yes, relationships end sometimes, but there's a massive difference between ending up a single parent because your partner dies or leaves and choosing to do it!

I love how you think suggesting a possible diagnosis which could potentially help OP is wrong but it's fine to push her into solo parenthood when she evidently has serious difficulty coping as it is. I don't know where you get the idea she has this 'strong support network'. She has an abusive mother who has put her down her entire life, and is staying in a shit relationship because she doesn't want to be alone. Where exactly are all these friends you think she has? I see a woman who is isolated and desperately lonely. Not one who is in a good place to go through pregnancy and child raising on her own.

Did you actually read her posts?

ChargingBuck · 21/10/2021 13:25

Why are you so convinced therapies work?!

Oh, how touchingly naive you are @zonky Grin Grin Grin

For the same reasons I am convinced that penicillin, heart surgery, the internal combustion engine & sunrises 'work'.
Science.
HTH

zonky · 21/10/2021 13:36

@ChargingBuck

Why are you so convinced therapies work?!

Oh, how touchingly naive you are @zonky Grin Grin Grin

For the same reasons I am convinced that penicillin, heart surgery, the internal combustion engine & sunrises 'work'.
Science.
HTH

Talking therapies aren't science - they are pseudo- science at best Grin
anthurium · 21/10/2021 13:57

[quote CecilieRose]@anthurium but not everyone is you. Not everyone wants to do things the way you do. It's actually quite unacceptable to insist that a grown adult doesn't know their own mind and to push their boundaries. Especially when it involves creating a new life and bringing up a child. It's not something to take lightly and if OP says she doesn't want to do it alone, that should be that. Yes, relationships end sometimes, but there's a massive difference between ending up a single parent because your partner dies or leaves and choosing to do it!

I love how you think suggesting a possible diagnosis which could potentially help OP is wrong but it's fine to push her into solo parenthood when she evidently has serious difficulty coping as it is. I don't know where you get the idea she has this 'strong support network'. She has an abusive mother who has put her down her entire life, and is staying in a shit relationship because she doesn't want to be alone. Where exactly are all these friends you think she has? I see a woman who is isolated and desperately lonely. Not one who is in a good place to go through pregnancy and child raising on her own.

Did you actually read her posts?[/quote]
The social narrative of finding a man/getting married and having children is very powerful.

You aren't qualified I assume to be diagnosing random on the people on the internet because you have a diagnosis. It's dangerous.

Op said in her opening post "I’m usually quite together and positive" assuming she is a functioning adult - the information about her mother came out much later. Op mentioned having friends. And Eden if she didn't an doesn't have a supportive family, should that preclude her from doing things independently?

I have very little actual support network - they aren't local - as do other women - and we manage and thrive - because guess what, shock horror you are resilient and can reliant on yourself?? You are romanticising relationships and men...I guess you're waiting to be rescued?? Why would anyone want to be with someone who can't 'cope' with life, it's not attractive.

Just because you're not coping doesn't mean others are failing too. Maybe Op needs to be encouraged in a different way.

ChargingBuck · 21/10/2021 13:57

Talking therapies aren't science - they are pseudo- science at best

You are the gift that keeps on giving @zonky

Why not wow us with your own scientific qualifications, & how much more you know than all these 'pseudo-scientists' with their manky doctoral degrees?

It's hilarious that you felt bad enough to visit a shrink for 6 months, felt a lot better afterwards, yet can't see any connection beyond your own sound common sense.
Where was that common sense prior to starting therapy? How come it didn't come to the rescue until you'd spent 6 months working on yourself with a therapist?

anthurium · 21/10/2021 14:03

@CecilieRose

You maybe projecting your own struggles on to others...and nobody needs that...

Relationships aren't the panacea you think they are...how many have you actually had? Do you read the struggles about them? OK op...keep dating until you find someone who will make you feel 'complete' and 'help you cope...

HyggeTygge · 21/10/2021 14:09

Wonder if it was 6 months therapy or the pp's brilliant personality that suggested that derailing a thread supporting a person who clearly isn't in the best place in order to argue to the toss was a positive course of action?
Do the decent thing and start your own thread on that topic rather than selfishly trampling over the OP's.

zonky · 21/10/2021 14:26

@HyggeTygge

Wonder if it was 6 months therapy or the pp's brilliant personality that suggested that derailing a thread supporting a person who clearly isn't in the best place in order to argue to the toss was a positive course of action? Do the decent thing and start your own thread on that topic rather than selfishly trampling over the OP's.
abersterol

To zonky : "that is my fear that I will get bogged down in it all. I don’t know. When I am in my stronger moments I know some of it wasn’t right but it’s hard for me to put into practice fixing it moving forward"

@HyggeTygge

Op didn't find my comment offensive

zonky · 21/10/2021 14:30

@ChargingBuck

Talking therapies aren't science - they are pseudo- science at best

You are the gift that keeps on giving @zonky

Why not wow us with your own scientific qualifications, & how much more you know than all these 'pseudo-scientists' with their manky doctoral degrees?

It's hilarious that you felt bad enough to visit a shrink for 6 months, felt a lot better afterwards, yet can't see any connection beyond your own sound common sense.
Where was that common sense prior to starting therapy? How come it didn't come to the rescue until you'd spent 6 months working on yourself with a therapist?

Not all therapists have medial qualifications... A lot of it isn't evidence- based....it is isn't proven that all therapies are effective just like medication for depression etc doesn't work for everyone...

I spent 6 months doing it so that I can say it was a waste of time and it was ...you can really spend most of your life on a mental health band wagon and get nowhere...or have 'placebo' like experience

I'm glad I got out ...we could have

ChargingBuck · 21/10/2021 14:48

Therapies are like dating apps - the creators need your money lol

& grocers who sell me food need my money. Does that mean their food contains no nutrients, & I can replace it with common sense?
Likewise my gas supplier, & I should cancel the direct debit & heat my house with common sense?

Not all therapists have medial qualifications... A lot of it isn't evidence- based....it is isn't proven that all therapies are effective just like medication for depression etc doesn't work for everyone...
Not all mechanics have the proper qualifications, or are shysters, or just not much cop. Should I shun all mechanics, because some are bad apples?

I spent 6 months doing it so that I can say it was a waste of time and it was ...you can really spend most of your life on a mental health band wagon and get nowhere...or have 'placebo' like experience
You spent 6 months doing it & then felt better enough to quit.
That's great.But hardly the proof you seem to think it is.
All you have 'proven' is that you think therapy is pointless, despite your own recovery during 6 months of it.
Many people talked about germ theory as being just the latest medical band wagon. Didn't make them right - just convinced by their own anecdata.