Frustrated by men's low standards

[coronaway]

I'm getting increasingly frustrated by men's seemingly low standards when it comes to what they want in a partner and wondered if others had this issue and how they dealt with it? Sorry this may come across a bit ranty...

I think I bring a lot to a relationship (not to sound big headed). I'm very active/fit, switched on, good career, interested in others etc. I'm looking to date someone around my age or a bit older (max 10 years) who is similar to me.

I find it really hard to find someone and if I do it never really progresses. Someone I was very briefly dating has called it a day (we weren't exclusive, only just started dating) so I'm back to square one. For whatever reason it never works out and it's so demoralising as there are few men I find attractive enough to want to date in the first place. What makes it more frustrating is these men don't seem to care much about their dates career, if she is fit, slim etc From what I can see they don't seem to care about much at all. It seems if a woman shows enough interest in them then that is enough.

Why do men who seemingly have a lot to offer have such low standards? I don't understand it! What do I have to do to find someone who I like and is willing to commit?

Urghh it's so demoralising. I've been on the wine tonight so not sure I'm really articulating what I mean but I wanted to vent!

As for going to pubs and gigs. You might be getting too old for it but don't judge everyone else by your own standards wink beside, I'm quite often playing in the band that everyone else is dancing to

I'm in a pub band, too. But I have a fiancé, less money, more body fat and disabilities.

I think that on the whole, giving everything due consideration, it probably is your personality that's the sticking point for these men, rather than your income or small arse.

Dating apps were the worst thing to ever happen for women, IMO. Men now have a catalogue of gorgeous women at their fingertips, without even having to put in any effort. Why would they bother earning the attention of high value women when they can get a shag with someone new every weekend?

You don't seem to hold this supposed 'catalogue of gorgeous women' with much regard if you assume they are aiming so low they are happy to jump into bed with these lazy make no effort men every weekend.

Meanwhile in the real world of OLD, there is no catalogue of gorgeous women online, the same as there is no catalogue of gorgeous men. There is however a large collection of 'average' and 'above average' looking people with a handful of very attractive people, the former probably need to be more proactive in securing dates whereas the latter have an armchair ride.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

As for going to pubs and gigs. You might be getting too old for it but don't judge everyone else by your own standards wink beside, I'm quite often playing in the band that everyone else is dancing to

I'm in a pub band, too. But I have a fiancé, less money, more body fat and disabilities.

I think that on the whole, giving everything due consideration, it probably is your personality that's the sticking point for these men, rather than your income or small arse.

It's really not. I've probably come across as quote ascerbic on here but I don't have an 'attitude'. I don't judge men I meet by previous men's standards (because I keep reading how thre are lovely men out there and I live in hope of meeting one of them!)

The feedback I have is that they like me, like my personality but if only I could come in a younger, smaller, prettier package.

That's what they tell me.

They were hoping to meet someone younger; I'm attractive for my age but...; I could probably do with losing a few pounds... 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think it's a mindset that many men have who find themselves single in their 40s/50s.

Eg I've dated a couple of men who are more introverted and didn't have much luck with women when they were younger. They feel they missed out on dating young, beautiful women when they were young and feel aggrieved that these women are no longer looking at them. They don't feel ready to settle for the 40something yet. They feel they have missed out.

That's what the men themselves have said.

@DillonPanthersTexas

Dating apps were the worst thing to ever happen for women, IMO. Men now have a catalogue of gorgeous women at their fingertips, without even having to put in any effort. Why would they bother earning the attention of high value women when they can get a shag with someone new every weekend?

You don't seem to hold this supposed 'catalogue of gorgeous women' with much regard if you assume they are aiming so low they are happy to jump into bed with these lazy make no effort men every weekend.

Meanwhile in the real world of OLD, there is no catalogue of gorgeous women online, the same as there is no catalogue of gorgeous men. There is however a large collection of 'average' and 'above average' looking people with a handful of very attractive people, the former probably need to be more proactive in securing dates whereas the latter have an armchair ride.

Yes, a lot of women have very low standards. It's incredibly frustrating because they're not just hurting themselves, they're hurting all of us.

I've seen my male friends date really gorgeous women, intelligent, funny, nice. In previous times, they'd have snapped them up in a heartbeat and proposed. Now they're just good for a few months until he gets bored. I also know less good looking men who have much less success but still seem to think they deserve the most gorgeous women on the apps, so when they do meet someone nice, they don't appreciate her and end up dumping her thinking they can do better.

[quote BreadPita]@LadybirdyBirdylady

Your last paragraph is very telling.

What are the impossibly high standards women hold each other to that men can't possibly meet?

I don't think it's so much that it's impossible to meet, it's that it's irrelevant. I think women equate impressive achievements with attraction because "impressive" men are generally more attractive to women.
Impressive achievements are much lower down in the list of attractive qualities for most men.
I don't think this is a moral failing. People don't get to choose what they find attractive.[/quote]
Interesting.

Most of my friends have good incomes in their own rights.

They just want someone who is kind, respectful, who cares about them and is fun to be with. Most women in their 40s and 50s want a man who is reasonably intelligent and has a job but I don't think those high status achievements are as important when you have those things for yourself.

That's just my experience and considering my friends.

I'm certainly not looking for an impressive list of 'achievements'.

I'm far more interested in someone's character. And obviously physical attraction is important but most people are a bit at the men I find attractive

@FortunesFave

Reading between the lines it seems you're disappointed these men aren't placing any value on your strong points...your fitness and career success.

Those things aren't the be all and end all you know. There are other more important factors to consider.

Also, a lot of men just want to have sex with a lot of different women. I'm currently seeing my friend's ex husband date like a nutcase...all online dates...he's seeing women a few times, sleeping with them and then ending it. Literally...5 or 6 dates and feeling the thrill of it all...then once he's slept with them he moves on. Horrible person but there you have it...a lot of men are like that.

Plus, some men want other things from women...not just successful career and fitness....some want a woman that makes them laugh or is into the same hobbies as them.

There is some truth in the above. Men that are divorced or have come out of long term relationships may feel like they've missed out a bit especially if they didn't 'play the field' when younger. I also think men are happy to date but are a bit jaded (as are women also) so they don't hang around of things start to get difficult.

Isn't it generally the case women look to date 'upwards' and men 'downwards'. Is it hypergamy? I think that leaves the likes of OP with fewer options.

Tbh, I've just been thinking about the single men in their 50s who I know personally.

There are a lot of very sexist attitudes generally about what women should do, how they should look, how they should behave.

And not just from men in that age group either.

I think part of the problem is that women have changed and men haven't and don't like the changes they have seen in women.

Yes, a lot of women have very low standards. It's incredibly frustrating because they're not just hurting themselves, they're hurting all of us.

I must have missed this armada of gorgeous women with low standards when I was online dating. From my personal experience I had to put in a fair bit of effort when initially contacting someone, I wrote a considered introductory email that demonstrated I had actually read their profile, follow up messages were witty and thoughtful, any dates that were agreed to I took seriously, picked a nice venue, dressed for the occasion and generally did not behave like twat. Clearly my efforts were wasted, I should have just spammed all profiles within a 10 mile radius with some cut and paste bollocks, been lazy and indifferent with follow up chat and all these gorgeous women would be fawning over my entitled arrogance.

I've seen my male friends date really gorgeous women, intelligent, funny, nice

Is this not you just projecting your own opinion, you are not the male friend, so it’s down to him to decide if someone is funny or nice (to him)

@Maxmaher

As a male I’ll offer my pov I appreciate this probably does change later in life and I’m not trolling or looking to cause offence

At my age (30) Females dating value is largely derived from beauty , Males is derived from wealth / status / power / confidence although naturally most of them attributes can usually be found together

Although it is a bit grim These cornerstones have 99% of the time got to be there on both sides for the attraction and deeper connection to be able to build from , otherwise you will quickly hit a Plato and will end up having the LJBF chat or worse someone ends up cheating which is a complete waste of time for everyone.

So if you’re a woman and you are looking for a man unfortunately it doesn’t really matter what you have achieved or how wealthy you are, the number one priority is we have to be physically attracted to you
only from there can you build a solid foundation for a relationship ……I don’t think I’ve met a woman yet that doesn’t know when a man is truly attracted to her we don’t hide our intentions very well and if there's any doubts personally I will make sure she is aware.

One of the biggest mistakes i see women making in dating is trying to play games they don’t make the ones worth having want you more and any man worth his salt won’t tolerate them and will just lose interest.

One last thing In my experience its better to get the sex out of the way as soon as possible because not only do you need to find out if you are both sexually compatible you will find out a lot quicker what he really wants from you nothing worse than dragging something out for months that should really have been finished in a week.

A lot of you are correct for sex a lot of men will lower their standards because they are lazy and don’t want to have to put the work into sleep with higher quality women but this logic can’t be applied when it comes to finding a long term partner / girlfriend , it will fail miserably

Thanks @Maxmaher

So women are only in it for the money/career and men only want sex so it is essential to give that to them ASAP. With the added issue that, then you have no idea of said guy is in it just for the sex or has hopes for a LTR.

If that is what ‘dating’ means in 2021, I’m happy to have done my ‘dating’ 30 years ago tbh.
I’m also happy to not be dating ever again.

@DillonPanthersTexas

Yes, a lot of women have very low standards. It's incredibly frustrating because they're not just hurting themselves, they're hurting all of us.

I must have missed this armada of gorgeous women with low standards when I was online dating. From my personal experience I had to put in a fair bit of effort when initially contacting someone, I wrote a considered introductory email that demonstrated I had actually read their profile, follow up messages were witty and thoughtful, any dates that were agreed to I took seriously, picked a nice venue, dressed for the occasion and generally did not behave like twat. Clearly my efforts were wasted, I should have just spammed all profiles within a 10 mile radius with some cut and paste bollocks, been lazy and indifferent with follow up chat and all these gorgeous women would be fawning over my entitled arrogance.

Maybe you're not good looking. I'm talking about men who are good looking and otherwise attractive (but not moreso than the women they're dating).

Maybe it's because it's OLD, then? A digital cattle market.

Band guys (well, blokes with Tanglewoods or the LP their Dad bought them for their 16th birthday, anyhow) can be a bit of a pain because they're used to women who are far too impressed by their ability to knock out a few arpeggios in Em and look a bit sad and pensive constipated.

But others outside that do sometimes seem to be a bit weirded out by female musicians - if they aren't the stereotypical girl singer. I've certainly met plenty who were very eager to try and knock me down a few pegs - I just wasn't interested in the first place, so why they felt I was inviting their opinions, God only knows.

I expect I'd probably like you if I met you at the other end of an XLR. What they've said to you sounds a lot different to how you presented it in the first post, though - it sounds crueller than 'not gonna work out', somehow, as it's finding faults where there shouldn't be anything.

Maybe your swipes are just dickheads?

@TintinIsBack exactly. That attitude sums it all up, really, doesn't it? As a woman you really can't win, because either you wait to have sex and he gets bored and dumps you or you have sex and then realise that's all he ever wanted, and now you've been used AND dumped.

So appealing.

@DillonPanthersTexas

Yes, a lot of women have very low standards. It's incredibly frustrating because they're not just hurting themselves, they're hurting all of us.

I must have missed this armada of gorgeous women with low standards when I was online dating. From my personal experience I had to put in a fair bit of effort when initially contacting someone, I wrote a considered introductory email that demonstrated I had actually read their profile, follow up messages were witty and thoughtful, any dates that were agreed to I took seriously, picked a nice venue, dressed for the occasion and generally did not behave like twat. Clearly my efforts were wasted, I should have just spammed all profiles within a 10 mile radius with some cut and paste bollocks, been lazy and indifferent with follow up chat and all these gorgeous women would be fawning over my entitled arrogance.

@DillonPanthersTexas I think the meaning of ‘low standards’ was different than what you understood tbh…

It wasn’t about you ‘having low standard’ cor yourself but about having low standard about the men you are dating, aka not expecting much from them.

@Triffid1

While OP's description of other women as being of a "lower standard" is a bit offensive, I do think I understand.

Rather cynically, I believe that a lot of men don't want women who are particularly successful etc because they feel it emasculates them. And if they DO date such women, there's a subtle pressure from them to make the woman downplay her achievements/success/focus etc.

I saw this when I was younger and single and I see it when I talk to men I know who are single now. They do want women who are professional and capable.... just not too professional and capable. In most cases, they won't or can't articulate that, but it feels true. And of course, once they're all in these long term relationships, this then plays out with the couple's assumption that his career is "more important" etc, so SHE is the one who must make the compromises to manage children/life etc.

I know this is cynical. I also know it's not always true. But it feels true a lot of the time. As someone who was very successful, good career etc, it took me a LONG time to realise that the men who were attracted to me weren't the lawyers and bankers and city types I worked with. It was men who were "lower status" or had very different jobs (artists, construction etc) who frankly weren't even slightly in competition with me.

Do you know what... after all these years, I'm beginning to think that what my late mum told me over 40 years ago might not have been all that wide of the mark after all...

She said that men don't like women to be too clever. That they don't like anyone who contradicts their opinion, or indeed, who might (shock horror) be cleverer than they are. They don't like being emasculated by intelligent women.

In my late teens, I thought she was being ridiculous, but I reckon that in a lot of cases she was bang on the money.

@waybill that is 100% correct. And it's getting worse, not better. I was at a social event with partners' friends recently, and they just completely froze me out of the conversation they were having about tech, even though I work in tech. Literally just ignored any contribution, talked over me, etc. Made me feel stupid and worthless, even though I'm the same age as they are, with as much experience as they have. They don't want women to talk to as equals, they want women to talk AT and impress.

@CecilieRose
Which bit of tech do you work in ?

Where are you finding these men? How old are you?
Online dating is a cesspit.
However I did go to quite a few singles meetups/speed dating and the men there were of higher quality. Bumble's 'looking for a relationship' setting is also good.

However caveat : I go for a certain type of man whose main focus isn't sleeping around with women, so I got good results. And while I met my DP at work I also met a few decent, boyfriend material men whom I broke up with after a few months but they were seeing me exclusively.

@CecilieRose :(:(

[quote JustAnother0ldMan]@CecilieRose
Which bit of tech do you work in ?[/quote]
How is that relevant?

@CecilieRose
Just interested that’s all, I work in Cloud / 365 / Azure

Years ago, I was seeing someone from work. We had a few hobbies in common and we both worked in IT. Any conversation with a friend or relative who also worked in IT would exclude me, and I would be apologised to for being so geeky.

Same guy would never include me in anything hobby related, unless it was in a support role like cheering them on or doing the cooking.

He had very fixed ideas about what I liked like presents and couldn't get his head round me saying I didn't want anything from the JL cookware range for my birthday/Christmas.

I no longer work with him and the last time I saw him he was out with his DW and young DC. I wonder if his DW posts in AIBU? about her husband's hobby.

See, this is what I mean:

the men there were of higher quality

No, the men there were closer to what you personally want. People can't be of higher or lower "quality". Just closer to what you want, or not what you want.

@altmember

This thread is one of the most sexist things I've ever read.

I don't think it's sexist because we too as women have our own list, but just focus on slightly different things...

I know far more women than men who are bothered by their OH's credit score / salary etc than men who are primarily focused on different things.

Focus on those sort of things is equally sexist, no?

@ClawedButler

See, this is what I mean:

the men there were of higher quality

No, the men there were closer to what you personally want. People can't be of higher or lower "quality". Just closer to what you want, or not what you want.

Yes they can - quality is defined by behaviours and values. It's fine if men want to sleep with as many women, that's their right. It's also a woman's right to do so (as I did when younger). However it's bad behaviour to lead people on. I have always been upfront about what I'm looking form kept my promises, and communication clear. Low quality men lie about wanting a relationship just to get into your pants, ghost you when someone better comes along, flake on dates, are rude and think they're God's gift to women. I could go on. High quality men behave like decent humans. Speak to women like humans, let you know if it won't work out, etc.

HTH.