Frustrated by men's low standards

[coronaway]

I'm getting increasingly frustrated by men's seemingly low standards when it comes to what they want in a partner and wondered if others had this issue and how they dealt with it? Sorry this may come across a bit ranty...

I think I bring a lot to a relationship (not to sound big headed). I'm very active/fit, switched on, good career, interested in others etc. I'm looking to date someone around my age or a bit older (max 10 years) who is similar to me.

I find it really hard to find someone and if I do it never really progresses. Someone I was very briefly dating has called it a day (we weren't exclusive, only just started dating) so I'm back to square one. For whatever reason it never works out and it's so demoralising as there are few men I find attractive enough to want to date in the first place. What makes it more frustrating is these men don't seem to care much about their dates career, if she is fit, slim etc From what I can see they don't seem to care about much at all. It seems if a woman shows enough interest in them then that is enough.

Why do men who seemingly have a lot to offer have such low standards? I don't understand it! What do I have to do to find someone who I like and is willing to commit?

Urghh it's so demoralising. I've been on the wine tonight so not sure I'm really articulating what I mean but I wanted to vent!

Op I am overweight by two stones. I am tall though and an hourglass shape so I can disguise well. I'm a size fourteen and do absolutely no exercise. I've had six pregnancies and have the loose skin to prove it!
I am the exact opposite to my partners exes. The three significant women in his life were slim, loved exercise and very atttactive.
I am comfortable being average looking but make up makes a big difference!
I have a wobbly belly, a flat bum, proportioned boobs and generous thighs.
I once commented to him that I seemed to be very different to his previous partners who had similar colouring, height and bodies .
His reply was .... and this is hopefully a different perspective for you op..... you have more confidence in yourself as a person and a woman in her own skin than the three ladies put together and that's the sexiest thing on earth.
He is right about the confident thing at least. I am confident both in and out of bed, I may not always feel 100% confident all of the time but as a rule, I don't compare Myself physically or otherwise to anyone else but am very aware of my faults and areas for improvement.
I would be interested to read of this is the experience of any other men or women ....
FWIW I am also a professional working and single mother.

@MarshmallowSwede yeh that's fair , i didn't mean / think of it from that perspective more more from the angle if she is into the guy then get it out of the way quickly because it is important and if the guy is genuinely interested it will speed up how comfortable you are with each other

I didn't mean just quickly have sex with every single guy you would consider dating lol

I do think that the attributes you say you have/are looking for are on the face of it pretty shallow. By your thinking my boyfriend has low standards as I am currently on benefits and not particularly slim; however we get on amazingly, have similar interests and perspectives, same sense of humour and amazing sex. To him it doesn’t matter and likewise, it wouldn’t matter to me what his situation was (though his is much better than mine!) because at the end of the day we love being in each other’s company. Perhaps you need to loosen up on your ideal man checklist because for all you know you’ll be letting a gem pass you by.

I am about as far from an oil painting as you can get. My husband is very good-looking. Has he got "low standards"? I don't like the idea that there's a hierarchy of objectively desirable traits in a partner - what happens when that changes, as it surely will? Looks fade, youth falls away, money can disappear for many reasons, a career can fail, all sorts. What then? Are people who work in a care home of a lower standard than solicitors? Sounds horrible.

Now a few years later they are still together but they never got married. Several things have come to light about him and all was not as it seemed when he turned my friend down. He was given advice that he refused to listen to and now is dealing with the fallout.
He got in contact with my friend about 2 year's ago and within a few weeks he was asking her to get into a friends with benefits situation with her. My friend nicely told him this was not going to happen.
My friend said she was lucky not to get involved a few years ago because she would have ended up in the same position as his girlfriend.

Meanwhile my friend is single but she said a lot of single men of my age are single for a reason and she does not want to get involved with a man with baggage or someone who sees her as a house keeper/nursemaid.

@Spiindoctor

I think it might be that most professional men get snapped up at uni. So if you're still looking after that many have already gone.

This I've realised is sadly true

I'm 46. I'm 'pretty' but not beautiful. I'm a size 10/12 but I'm not toned and I don't have a 'great body' although I do have (I think) a nice figure - curves in all the right places. People often think I'm younger than I am - usually get pegged for mid/late 30s but that's just reasonable genes and a very basic skincare/minimal make up routine! I'm intelligent, well educated and have a professional career.

I often get told I'm pretty/attractive/good looking, easy to talk to, funny, good company, interesting, that I connect easily with people and I'm a good conversationalist.

I have hobbies and interests - I do swing dancing, play in a band, love going to gigs.

I went out on Saturday with an ex who is 10 years younger than me and was chatted up by a similarly aged man.

Can I get a relationship? No.

Why? Well the general feedback seems to be that I'm not young enough, not slim enough, not quite pretty enough... the rest of it doesn’t matter.

Men in their 30s seem to like me. Men in their 40s and 50s? They're chasing the impossible dream. IME, men are worried about how the woman he is with reflects on him; what it says about him - so they want someone young and beautiful because it says This Is A Successful, High Quality Man Who Has Done Well For Himself.

I have a friend who is 56 and dating. He is realistic about the women he dates but even he sees getting a young, slim and beautiful woman as an achievement. Something to be applauded.

Women are seen as (high/low value) assets - like a cars, holidays and houses. You get what you can. For many men in theirb40s and 50s, dating a woman their own age is like driving an old banger. It's tells the world that they can't do better.

That is my experience and I've been dating since my marriage ended 10 years ago 🤷🏻‍♀️

His reply was .... and this is hopefully a different perspective for you op..... you have more confidence in yourself as a person and a woman in her own skin than the three ladies put together and that's the sexiest thing on earth.

That's been the opposite of experience whereas have been somewhat affronted by my confidence.

As a woman, I seemingly need to recognise own worth and that that is based on superficial physical attributes.

I've found that the times I've been most comfortable and confident itself are the times I've attracted the greatest criticism.

Men have been a lot 'kinder' when I've acknowledged by 'flaws' and seem to be bothered by them.

Gosh loads of typos! Hope it makes sense!

@TossaCointoYerWitcher

A few thoughts, as a man…

A) Maybe men have lower standards because, by your own admission, women like you have “few men (you) find attractive enough to even date in the first place”? I mean, if we’re aware you’re such a sought after prize, then maybe we realise life would be easier and less anxiety- inducing if we settled for someone who’s just simply lovely who we click with?

B) I know a woman who is fit and attractive and is a bit of an entrepreneur. I actually really respect that latter quality. She’s flirted with me a couple of times. I suspect it’s not serious, but, to be honest, I likely wouldn’t reciprocate even if it was. Because - and apologies if this sounds off - my goodness, does she behave like she knows she’s a real catch. And that attitude doesn’t really endear me to her, as much as I respect her success.

Because - and apologies if this sounds off - my goodness, does she behave like she knows she’s a real catch. And that attitude doesn’t really endear me to her, as much as I respect her success.

What always stands out to me is the differing attitudes towards men and women on this point.

A woman with self belief and behaving assertively, who knows her own worth? Her attitude is much more likely to be viewed as uppity and offputting.

Know your place, woman!

@LarryTheLurker

It's all men's fault, as usual, but that's MN for you. MN at its best is great, but too often it is a rest home for embittered misandrists.

When women are disappointed by men it's usually because they try to judge us by the standards they would apply to other women, and find us defective because ... we're not.

Your last paragraph is very telling.

What are the impossibly high standards women hold each other to that men can't possibly meet?

@luckyJasmin

OP my mum always puts it nicely for me.

'Why do you think you're special because you're slim, kind, and have a good career? So do millions of other women.'

Truth is, you're looking above your height. You need to be more realistic in the man you're after.

The reality is if you are drop dead gorgeous and amazing in other aspects - and are looking for a man to commit - you would have found one easily by now.

What a terrible attitude your mum has. I feel sorry for you that this is what she taught you.

'Lower your standards' only favours men, doesn't it? Instead of men bettering themselves to be good enough for intelligent, accomplished, attractive women, we're instead told that we need to stop looking for our equals and look lower. I know loads of amazing single 30-something women who can't find a partner because men just don't value those things and are instead focused on superficial stuff.

Dating apps were the worst thing to ever happen for women, IMO. Men now have a catalogue of gorgeous women at their fingertips, without even having to put in any effort. Why would they bother earning the attention of high value women when they can get a shag with someone new every weekend?

What always stands out to me is the differing attitudes towards men and women on this point.

A woman with self belief and behaving assertively, who knows her own worth? Her attitude is much more likely to be viewed as uppity and offputting.

Know your place, woman!

So true.

Qualities that men pride in themselves they find actively unattractive in women.

Comes back to women being meek, demure and deferent

@ButterflyAway

Oh look, a man has come to announce his opinion.

I hate this so much. Why do they need to say that they are men. It's as if this makes what they say so much more important

When women are disappointed by men it's usually because they try to judge us by the standards they would apply to other women

Instead of lowering their standards so that men don't feel they need to make as much of an effort.

I just asked my DH what attracted him to me and he said that we got on well had fun and found me attractive. IME, most men really aren't that bothered by career success, unless they're after someone to keep them. Being slim/fit is great if that's a look they find attractive, but if a man is a looking for a relationship, as opposed to sex, they want someone they feel comfortable with, who they get on with, it's not rocket science.

I hate this so much. Why do they need to say that they are men. It's as if this makes what they say so much more important

I like to imagine them arriving on chariots a la Charlton Heston as Ben Hur, with crowds cheering as they approach.

@LadybirdyBirdylady

I don't know you but i can tell you have a chip on your shoulder , you sound like you dislike men your own age and yes i agree the reasons why are shallow

some men will want the shiny new model but don't forget they will need to have serious value themselves to be able to maintain that shiny 20/30yr old , i don't belive for a second there are that many men out there in their 40's and 50's that would seriously be able to maintain a younger female especially in these times.

Likewise If you are 46 i hate to break it you cannot expect a 30yr old male to seriously settle down with you it will end in catastrophe

As you approach 50 can you really afford to be indulging in this all trivia ? nightclubs / bars really ? I'm tiring of it at 30

surely its just about meeting someone you like spending time with ? just drop the attitude and I'm sure someone will snap you up

Dating apps were the worst thing to ever happen for women, IMO. Men now have a catalogue of gorgeous women at their fingertips, without even having to put in any effort. Why would they bother earning the attention of high value woman

“Catalog of gorgeous women”. Just because I think one person is gorgeous, that’s not going to be true for the next man / woman

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4352428-What-instantly-makes-a-guy-hot

the next person might look for a different attribute, trait

Why would they bother earning the attention of high value women

what’s your definition of “high value woman”, 50k job, Post graduate degree, running a business with 100 staff, or working for a homeless charity on minimum wage, NHS nurse or being a full time mum ?

Again “value” is so subjective

[quote Maxmaher]@LadybirdyBirdylady

I don't know you but i can tell you have a chip on your shoulder , you sound like you dislike men your own age and yes i agree the reasons why are shallow

some men will want the shiny new model but don't forget they will need to have serious value themselves to be able to maintain that shiny 20/30yr old , i don't belive for a second there are that many men out there in their 40's and 50's that would seriously be able to maintain a younger female especially in these times.

Likewise If you are 46 i hate to break it you cannot expect a 30yr old male to seriously settle down with you it will end in catastrophe

As you approach 50 can you really afford to be indulging in this all trivia ? nightclubs / bars really ? I'm tiring of it at 30

surely its just about meeting someone you like spending time with ? just drop the attitude and I'm sure someone will snap you up[/quote]
Well thanks for the mansplain... 🙄

O clarify a few points...

I don't have a chip on my shoulder but is frustrating.

And I don't want a 30 year old man 🤣 I can't think of anything worse or more dull!

I dated a man 20 years younger than me for a few months this year. I broke it off because he was boring and far too young. It was only supposed to he a bit of fun anyway. He rang last week to ask if we couldn't for coffee. He told me he'd missed, loved me and wished the age difference hadn't been such an issue for me.

The point is I want to meet a man in his 40s/50s.

As for going to pubs and gigs. You might be getting too old for it but don't judge everyone else by your own standards beside, I'm quite often playing in the band that everyone else is dancing to...

*could meet

@JustAnother0ldMan

Dating apps were the worst thing to ever happen for women, IMO. Men now have a catalogue of gorgeous women at their fingertips, without even having to put in any effort. Why would they bother earning the attention of high value woman

“Catalog of gorgeous women”. Just because I think one person is gorgeous, that’s not going to be true for the next man / woman

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4352428-What-instantly-makes-a-guy-hot

the next person might look for a different attribute, trait

Why would they bother earning the attention of high value women

what’s your definition of “high value woman”, 50k job, Post graduate degree, running a business with 100 staff, or working for a homeless charity on minimum wage, NHS nurse or being a full time mum ?

Again “value” is so subjective

It doesn't matter. The point is, they're not looking for relationships. They don't need to anymore. They meet a woman on an app, lead her on for whatever amount of time suits, ditch her, and move on to the next one. There's no incentive to settle down anymore. I genuinely think most men just want a pretty girl on their arm as a status symbol. That's certainly how I've felt over the past decade.

@ButterflyAway

Oh look, a man has come to announce his opinion.

So women trying to understand men's standards when it comes to dating (because men are such an homogenous group that we all have the same standards of course) will find the answer without the input of a man?

Are you a parody account?

@Maxmaher I am 29 this year and do not know any women my age who is dating an older man or is willing to. Doubtless they exist but they are probably not as common as Mumsnet claims. I am in London, there are plenty of men our age on good salaries/in good careers so why would we settle for an older model. Unless its is an oligarch maybe but there aren't that many of those on offer.

So the older men should be more realistic. A young woman is probably using them to get a free holiday and some nice things but she is going to ditch them in the long term.

@LadybirdyBirdylady

Your last paragraph is very telling.

What are the impossibly high standards women hold each other to that men can't possibly meet?

I don't think it's so much that it's impossible to meet, it's that it's irrelevant. I think women equate impressive achievements with attraction because "impressive" men are generally more attractive to women.
Impressive achievements are much lower down in the list of attractive qualities for most men.
I don't think this is a moral failing. People don't get to choose what they find attractive.