Can a married man and woman go to lunch together?

[Isla248]

Hi Ladies!

Before anyone jumps down my throat - I am a married woman who has no intention whatsoever to cheat. Let’s get that bit out of the way...I click well with guys more than girls. Me and this guy started a new job at the same time and we’re trained together. Naturally we connected, he started messaging on email and sometimes we have mini random convos. I’m quite out there and he’s more quiet and laidback. We’ve been to two lunches recently. One was after joint work we did together and the other, I spontaneously asked if he was free and he met me in a public cafe. We were there for no longer than an hour, talked about work, his pregnant wife and he is curious about my husband and has asked multiple questions about him since we’ve talked.

He doesn’t flirt or talk badly about his wife, just a normal human connection and with home-working, it’s nice to see other co-workers (I do this with other colleagues too but he is the only guy in the team).

I had a heated discussion with my married friends and they think the situation is all wrong. I was confident in defending myself but is there something I’m missing? Am I truly misleading this person or sending the wrong signal? I thought I’d get a different opinion because I don’t want to fall out with anyone or get into a pickle. I’m just being my total self here!

@TheFoundations

Haha, yes it has spiralled out of control!

You don't need to prove anything to leave him though. You are allowed to leave him for whatever reason you like! And he won't stop being a dad if you split.

@ScumbagDave

You don't need to prove anything to leave him though. You are allowed to leave him for whatever reason you like! And he won't stop being a dad if you split.

I know :( but he’s a good person if it wasn’t for this. It tends to happen every time I leave town! The calls that is. It’s also not the same. His kids are smitten with him and he’s also very hands on.

You have evidence at the very least, that he is calling sex workers. Meanwhile, you are having to defend yourself to people IRL over male friends... because you're married.

That is fucked up!

If you want to save the marriage, would you consider marriage counselling?

But honestly, if he's making you question your looks and attractiveness, and general worth, is there no way you can see a better life without him?

Your husband is calling escorts every time you leave town? How does that make you feel?

@ScumbagDave

If you want to save the marriage, would you consider marriage counselling?

But honestly, if he's making you question your looks and attractiveness, and general worth, is there no way you can see a better life without him?

At the very least, you could be friends with whatever guy you wanted or even more than friends.

Also maybe just counselling for yourself? It's hard to leave when your self esteem is on the floor and that's how men who aren't very nice get away with a lot sometimes.

I got out a make colleague all the time.
We have been away over night, separate rooms

Never a hint of inappropriate behaviour from either side.

I love him dearly as a friend. My husband is secure enough in our relationship to not even raise an eyebrow

I think this whole men and women can't be friends is really sad

I know :( but he’s a good person if it wasn’t for this.

A good person... other than breaking your trust (repeatedly) and seeing women as commodities to be bought even if he doesn't 'go through with it'? He does by the way, it's a bullshit line punters spin to their wives - I call for the thrill / it was the first time ever etc. All you need to know is that he thinks women can be bought and sold to men who want to fuck them. Bleurgh.

I have had counselling for myself and we’ve had some marriage counselling. He says that as long as I don’t go away, he won’t have the urge to call. I obviously don’t buy his excuse and it’s happened so many times that I’m starting to block it. I have recently worked on my confidence and slowly getting there. When people see my life and the way I present myself, they think I have a great life. Absolutely nobody but my counsellor and now you guys, knows about what my husband has been doing.

@TheFoundations

Your husband is calling escorts every time you leave town? How does that make you feel?

It makes me feel worthless :(

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I know :( but he’s a good person if it wasn’t for this.

A good person... other than breaking your trust (repeatedly) and seeing women as commodities to be bought even if he doesn't 'go through with it'? He does by the way, it's a bullshit line punters spin to their wives - I call for the thrill / it was the first time ever etc. All you need to know is that he thinks women can be bought and sold to men who want to fuck them. Bleurgh.

Maybe I’m in denial and hoping that the worst thing he’s doing in dirty talking and fantasising about sleeping with other women. I think If I’d seen proof that he was seeing them, then I wouldn’t be able to forgive. It would break me.

I have had counselling for myself and we’ve had some marriage counselling. He says that as long as I don’t go away, he won’t have the urge to call.

Oh my love, he's literally telling you that it's your fault if he messages (and pays to have sex with) women who are more likely than not to have been coerced, abused, trafficked and assaulted.

It is NEVER EVER a woman's responsibility to police a man's behaviour.

I cannot emphasise enough how controlling and abusive what he said to you is. It's something a good man would never say - ever.

He's using it to keep you compliant and malleable. It's sickening.

I don't know if you have daughters or maybe a niece? If you do - if they told you their partner said that if they aren't always around, they'll be forced to message / call / visit prostitutes... what would you desperately want them to do? Would you want them to spend the rest of their lives with that man? Pandering to his demands for fear of him using sex workers? Being with a man who thinks women are commodities?

We have one precious, short life. Don't waste it on someone who is eroding your self esteem and self worth. Chipping away at you until eventually there will be nothing left and you won't even recognise yourself.

You can be free of this, free of a sexist man complicit in the abuse of women. Emotionally abusing you and engaging in and industry in which women are routinely coerced, trafficked, threatened, attacked, raped and seen as nothing more than a commodity by disgusting men.

Sorry that you have problems in your marriage.

Your married friends have told you that the situation with your male friend is all wrong and they can sense your feelings and intentions more that we can from your writing.

It seems like you might lining up your male friend to be an emotional crutch while you decide whether to leave your husband.

Your male friend is about to become a father of a new baby. He will need all his time and emotional energy to support his wife and child.

Find someone else to give you the support you need.

@MissTrip82

I click better with men. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

This phrase absolutely drips with misogyny. I guess you’re ‘not like other girls’?

You’ve got way more to work on than whether or not to have lunch with some bloke.

I don’t understand why some people have an issue with this statement.

I absolutely, genuinely, on the whole, DO get on better with men.

I grew up surrounded by older brothers and their friends. I feel comfortable in the company of men. I feel very self-conscious in the company of women, because I just don’t feel like I belong with them, and I rarely share the same interests. I’ve had lots more trouble with women during my life than I ever have with men.

I do have some (few) lovely female friends. Men are just easier to be with, in my experience.

@spotcheck

If he ever asked, I wouldn’t deny it

Interesting.

So, secrecy is still a big feature in your marriage.

You also say you're lonely, and this man helps fill a gap. And you've had tough times with your husband. And your friend seems interested in your husband, which happens when people are sizing up their competition.

You're treading dangerous ground
Your situation is very different to someone who is happy and secure in their marriage, and mentions the lunch to their spouse.

Absolutely this.

Isla, I have much empathy for you. You are certainly not worthless!

Your H is not a man of integrity or a good father. A good man would not contact/visit prostitutes and threaten to continue if his wife leaves town. A good dad would not betray, diminish and coerce his children’s mother, thereby destabilizing the whole family. A good person does not objectify other human beings as bodies to be purchased for sexual gratification.

Even if his thrill is contacting the sex workers but not actually visiting them (unlikely), that is cheating and making a mockery of your marriage. Your mentioning his ‘dirty talk’ makes me wonder if he’s been webcamming—paying for online interactive sex. His shifting blame and making you responsible for his sleazy behavior is disgusting.

This is all about him. He is the massively selfish one with low morals and weak boundaries, and he has ground you down. This is a toxic relationship model that your children are being exposed to.

Isla, you say that you’ve been blocking the trauma of his abuse. In your shoes, I would unblock, return to counseling, and formulate an exit strategy. You and the children deserve an emotionally safe home.

@MsDogLady

Isla, I have much empathy for you. You are certainly not worthless!

Your H is not a man of integrity or a good father. A good man would not contact/visit prostitutes and threaten to continue if his wife leaves town. A good dad would not betray, diminish and coerce his children’s mother, thereby destabilizing the whole family. A good person does not objectify other human beings as bodies to be purchased for sexual gratification.

Even if his thrill is contacting the sex workers but not actually visiting them (unlikely), that is cheating and making a mockery of your marriage. Your mentioning his ‘dirty talk’ makes me wonder if he’s been webcamming—paying for online interactive sex. His shifting blame and making you responsible for his sleazy behavior is disgusting.

This is all about him. He is the massively selfish one with low morals and weak boundaries, and he has ground you down. This is a toxic relationship model that your children are being exposed to.

Isla, you say that you’ve been blocking the trauma of his abuse. In your shoes, I would unblock, return to counseling, and formulate an exit strategy. You and the children deserve an emotionally safe home.

Thank you for your compassionate response. It’s so hard to portray his behaviour to others, as although he is wrong in what he’s doing, he isn’t a controlling or coercive person. I caught him out and tried to understand his reasoning and also establish how far he has gone with it. He often breaks down and apologises. It’s no excuse because if he needs a release, he can watch an adult video. Calling up an escort in the locality just to chat is bizarre! He mentions that when I’m away, he struggles sexually but it’s not an excuse to get a cheap thrill and risk our marriage.

Other than this, he’s very supportive. He takes care of us financially and in every sense. It’s so hard and I wonder if some partners have a tendency to cheat. We have a great sex life so I can’t even say it’s down to that!

Thank you for your warm words. I will take into account your advice

Thank you, I feel the exact same way and never realised it would offend anyone!

@OurMamInHavianas

Sorry that you have problems in your marriage.

Your married friends have told you that the situation with your male friend is all wrong and they can sense your feelings and intentions more that we can from your writing.

It seems like you might lining up your male friend to be an emotional crutch while you decide whether to leave your husband.

Your male friend is about to become a father of a new baby. He will need all his time and emotional energy to support his wife and child.

Find someone else to give you the support you need.

thank you for your understanding. I haven’t actively set out to look for someone to be an emotional crutch. I would never share my marriage problems with this man. I understand even without a kid, that he needs be emotionally invested in his family. My friends have freaked out about some of the topics we discussed. I know my boundaries and feel comfortable knowing he’s in a relationship and hopefully where no boundaries will be blurred.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I have had counselling for myself and we’ve had some marriage counselling. He says that as long as I don’t go away, he won’t have the urge to call.

Oh my love, he's literally telling you that it's your fault if he messages (and pays to have sex with) women who are more likely than not to have been coerced, abused, trafficked and assaulted.

It is NEVER EVER a woman's responsibility to police a man's behaviour.

I cannot emphasise enough how controlling and abusive what he said to you is. It's something a good man would never say - ever.

He's using it to keep you compliant and malleable. It's sickening.

I don't know if you have daughters or maybe a niece? If you do - if they told you their partner said that if they aren't always around, they'll be forced to message / call / visit prostitutes... what would you desperately want them to do? Would you want them to spend the rest of their lives with that man? Pandering to his demands for fear of him using sex workers? Being with a man who thinks women are commodities?

We have one precious, short life. Don't waste it on someone who is eroding your self esteem and self worth. Chipping away at you until eventually there will be nothing left and you won't even recognise yourself.

You can be free of this, free of a sexist man complicit in the abuse of women. Emotionally abusing you and engaging in and industry in which women are routinely coerced, trafficked, threatened, attacked, raped and seen as nothing more than a commodity by disgusting men.

Thank you for your response. I actually have two young daughters. You’re right in what you’re saying - there’s no excuse for his behaviour.

He isn’t sexist or controlling but he’s definitely immature and doesn’t respect his family enough not risk our marriage for a cheap thrill.

I pray I have the strength to figure this out. I wish he would just get help for his tendencies. Everything else in the marriage is good.

He isn’t sexist or controlling but he’s definitely immature and doesn’t respect his family enough not risk our marriage for a cheap thrill.

It is sexist to view women as commodities - he does that.

It is controlling to tell a partner that them being away is the primary cause for you calling sex workers, because it makes that partner feel less able to go away and more anxious if they do so.

He absolutely is sexist and controlling. He doesn't respect women. Women who he sees as commodities for him to at minimum wank over and most likely to pay for sex with, women he is married to or young women he is a father to but is risking the family unit regardless.

You say 'everything else in the marriage is good' but what marriage can truly be good when one party is a liar, is most likely a cheat, is a user of sex workers whether messaging cramming or prostitutes, has lack of respect by repeatedly doing the same thing that they know hurts their partner deeply...

You are NOT in a good marriage at all and I know that hurts to hear but it's really scary that you have two daughters and they are growing up seeing a relationship that is so dysfunctional.

As I said before, and answer as honestly as you can, if they told you their partner said that if they aren't always around, they'll be forced to message / call / visit prostitutes... what would you desperately want them to do? Would you want them to spend the rest of their lives with that man? Pandering to his demands for fear of him using sex workers? Being with a man who thinks women are commodities?

This isn't a 'tendency' he needs support tackling. This is who he is. He is a shit husband who is making you feel shit about yourself. He hasn't made a mistake, he's consciously and knowingly done the same thing to hurt you multiple times and then told you that you not being constantly with him is the reason for it.

And again, he views women as commodities with a price.

He is vile. Please don't waste your life on him.

Yabu

Asking any man for a drink or food is basically asking him to fuck you right there and then on the table.

Everyone knows it's impossible to be anything beyond polite to a member of the opposite sex before you find yourself riding him vigorously all over his house or yours.

Stop being a floozy and talking to men. You're married now. You only need a couple of female married friends and no one else.

HTH.

Oops, sorry. Didn't realise it was 10 pages long and had taken a massive U Turn.

Sounds like you deserve so much better @Isla248

@youvegottenminuteslynn

He isn’t sexist or controlling but he’s definitely immature and doesn’t respect his family enough not risk our marriage for a cheap thrill.

It is sexist to view women as commodities - he does that.

It is controlling to tell a partner that them being away is the primary cause for you calling sex workers, because it makes that partner feel less able to go away and more anxious if they do so.

He absolutely is sexist and controlling. He doesn't respect women. Women who he sees as commodities for him to at minimum wank over and most likely to pay for sex with, women he is married to or young women he is a father to but is risking the family unit regardless.

You say 'everything else in the marriage is good' but what marriage can truly be good when one party is a liar, is most likely a cheat, is a user of sex workers whether messaging cramming or prostitutes, has lack of respect by repeatedly doing the same thing that they know hurts their partner deeply...

You are NOT in a good marriage at all and I know that hurts to hear but it's really scary that you have two daughters and they are growing up seeing a relationship that is so dysfunctional.

As I said before, and answer as honestly as you can, if they told you their partner said that if they aren't always around, they'll be forced to message / call / visit prostitutes... what would you desperately want them to do? Would you want them to spend the rest of their lives with that man? Pandering to his demands for fear of him using sex workers? Being with a man who thinks women are commodities?

This isn't a 'tendency' he needs support tackling. This is who he is. He is a shit husband who is making you feel shit about yourself. He hasn't made a mistake, he's consciously and knowingly done the same thing to hurt you multiple times and then told you that you not being constantly with him is the reason for it.

And again, he views women as commodities with a price.

He is vile. Please don't waste your life on him.

:(