Where do they hide the normal men?

[Ihaveroyallyscrewedup]

Is there some island they all live on, some secret place only a few know of?
The most recent seemed like a safe bet, known each other for many years, well enough to know a fair amount of detail about each other’s lives. In that time he’s always seemed stable, good job, own house, two children he has three days a week, wise enough to have asked my advice before he has taken action because he has recognised he may be unreasonable and being a dick. For reasons which are irrelevant we have never dated but there has always been chemistry so we found ourselves in a place where we think ok let’s date and suddenly he’s turned in to this unreliable, non communicative man who treats a suggestion of lunch as if you had just proposed marriage, buying a house and having triplets all at the same time!
So time to throw this one back which is a shame as we have been friends a long time.

86% of women & 78% of men considered sex with a prostitute cheating.

d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hnkaqncwlu/SunResults_150518_affairs_W.pdf

So that’s almost one in four men who don’t consider it cheating and if they have been having sex with a prostitute would have answered no
How bout cam girls . How many men would have called that cheating ? Apparently over half consider it NOT cheating

‘Men's Health readers on social media, 53% said that masturbating to a camgirl didn't count as cheating, while 47% said that it did.’

Im pretty sure many of their wives and gfs wouldn’t agree

It's rather shocking that 22% of men and 14% of women consider sex with a prostitute as not cheating?

And 8% think that sex with someone else isn't cheating?? Also, isn't sex with a protitute still 'someone else'? Why is there even a difference between those two stats?

Just noticed at the very top of the paper it says 'You Gov / The Sun' survey results. I'm not sure a survey of Sun readers is a wholly representative sample of UK society?

I see that graph has stats for webcams and it claims 63 % of men see using webcams as cheating whereas almost the same amount of women as are using a prostitutes as cheating feel the same about webcams 83 %

So even less men admitting to webcams even though a huge 83percent see it as cheating

One only has to look at the MAIN consumers of porn , which in itself many men are lying about to wives who feel it’s cheating .

I think it would be a very very hard case trying to show statistically that women are sexually acting out in harassing men online , porn webcams etc even IF the actual cases each gender admits to of affairs is close . Also they mention men are more likely to be repeat cheaters

I have no issue with women and men taking lovers in roughly equal numbers what I do not agree with is that women are using sex services in anywhere close yo the numbers men are
And of course that still leaves us with all the other issues of violence , dodging child support , harassment of women . Etc etc

@altmember

It's rather shocking that 22% of men and 14% of women consider sex with a prostitute as not cheating?

And 8% think that sex with someone else isn't cheating?? Also, isn't sex with a protitute still 'someone else'? Why is there even a difference between those two stats?

Just noticed at the very top of the paper it says 'You Gov / The Sun' survey results. I'm not sure a survey of Sun readers is a wholly representative sample of UK society?

Yes it is that’s only one survey and we don’t have any data on the group who was asked One set of statistics doesn’t tell us much about the reliability of the data I think we would be hard pushed to find many women at all who don’t consider using a prostitute as cheating

For example these stats that show big differences in cheating - men again making up bigger numbers and we see no account for all the webcams and stuff here

The UK's last major study of sexual behaviour - the 2000 National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles (Natsal) - found that 15% of men had had "overlapping" relationships in the previous year, but only 9% of women.
From us - I’m sure gender is similar

Twenty percent of men cheat compared to 13 percent of women, according to the U.S. General Social Survey. Why do men cheat? Well, men are more prone to casual and opportunistic cheating, which plays a big part in why they get caught.14 Sept

@Kittenlittlen so that survey showed men and women equally likely to have an affair. Thanks for posting. Even if it’s so depressing that 1 in 5 have! It’s devastating the consequences. I must have looked at an older study saying that men more likely. Has to changed over time I wonder?

Also I know this is a personal account. But it does bring it back to where are all the normal men and the OLD debate

My Ex went on OLD and cheated with many, many women. Most of whom had no idea they were having an affair. There are some men (and possibly women too) who have got into the ‘game’ of it and are successful OLD and in real life - like my Ex - becoming expert at it and leading women to believe they are nice, normal but it’s all a lie. So when we go out dating those who are putting in the effort may well be the ones, statistically, who are clocking up bigger numbers. So no wonder it’s harder to find the nice guy who isn’t as ‘practised’

[quote NCBlossom]@Kittenlittlen so that survey showed men and women equally likely to have an affair. Thanks for posting. Even if it’s so depressing that 1 in 5 have! It’s devastating the consequences. I must have looked at an older study saying that men more likely. Has to changed over time I wonder?[/quote]
One set of stats showed that men and women were 20%\ 19% and some stats showed men have huge a few more . , with men at 20% and women at 13 %
Depends on the source

This of course doesn’t included the people using online sex services like webcam girls ( almost always men ) who are not counted as affairs or
I would t want a man who used webcams or who had a porn addiction. . The numbers of men who are using that stuff seems to be very large indeed.

One set of stats showed that men and women were 20%\ 19% and some stats showed men have huge a few more . , with men at 20% and women at 13 %

The 20/19 seems to be commonly quoted from UK data and 20/13 seems to be common US data.

This comes from the US as well I would guess, but seems to pull from UK data as well
haywoodhunt.ca/infidelity-statistics-for-2020-do-women-or-men-cheat-more/

Which suggests that younger women are now cheating more then younger men, but men generally cheat more overtime

Does include porn, sex services etc

.. should say, DOES NOT include porn …

Why is there no edit feature?

This is data from the US, where the 20/13 comes from

ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-more-the-demographics-of-cheating-in-america

The 1st chart is interesting, with the lines parallel until 40-49 years, with men a few points higher

I would like to see this same data set in 10 or 15 years time and see if the intersection have moved at all and where the data points are.

I don't believe all the 'good' guys are taken. Not every guy in a relationship is a good guy.
What about the men that are cheated on or dumped and then go online dating?
Not all the guys online are dicks.
That's like saying all the women are online because they are no good to anyone else.
Some people have bad luck.

@Peppapigforlife

We just need to all agree to stop dating any of them from now one, so that they are actually forced to heal themselves rather than jump from one of us to the next. We can form an alliance and vet them over as a collective to ensure they have in fact, become normal in their abstinence.

Just as likely to become incels as self-reflect and work on themselves to become decent humans.

@JustAnother0ldMan

One set of stats showed that men and women were 20%\ 19% and some stats showed men have huge a few more . , with men at 20% and women at 13 %

The 20/19 seems to be commonly quoted from UK data and 20/13 seems to be common US data.

This comes from the US as well I would guess, but seems to pull from UK data as well
haywoodhunt.ca/infidelity-statistics-for-2020-do-women-or-men-cheat-more/

Which suggests that younger women are now cheating more then younger men, but men generally cheat more overtime

Does include porn, sex services etc

It only includes porn and sex services if the person being asked considers if cheating abd we’ve already seen that a huge percentage don’t

@JustAnother0ldMan

.. should say, DOES NOT include porn …

Why is there no edit feature?

Oh yes , agree And that is a huge problem isn’t it , considering many if not most women would consider their partner having cyber sexual with webcam girls to be cheating So once we top up the men’s stats with the men using sex service and addicted to porn you’d see men’s stats jump hugely I believe And yes please man an edit feature

That was supposed to read…
Mn - please give us an edit feature
Just giving an example of the need obviously

you’d see men’s stats jump hugely I believe

Jump yes, but I don’t believe it would it would be hugely, but that’s just my personal opinion really, the ‘consumers’ of sex services don’t have to be married/ in a relationship, whereas cheaters, by definition, do.

But what do I know 🤷🏼‍♂️

@onlychildhamster

Men might have preferences regarding women but it is much more varied- some like blondes, some like brunettes etc. It's much easier for women to conform to general expectations for a women's appearance- one can lose weight, wear makeup, it's easy enough to look 'average' and in the UK at least, it's easy enough to get dates if you look 'average' and your looks wouldn't be a significant barrier. You don't need to do all or any of the above but the option is there.

But it is impossible for men to grow an extra 10 cm as opposed to a woman losing weight and dying her hair and wearing makeup, all of which would make most women look 'average'.i don't know many men who have a set preference for a woman with huge boobs or nice arse, most men just want a nice enough girl who they can talk to and is at least average looking. I feel really sorry for short men, I am 152 cm and dont feel I suffered a lot on the dating front due to my height as a lot of men like petite girls. It would be different if I was a man.

I am a tall woman. I've never encountered such animosity and vile behaviour as I have from short men, who seem to have the reverse complex and hate women who are tall.

There are very few 'normal' men actually if you are talking about decent, kind, faithful, reliable, solvent, not overweight, not ugly or reasonable looking, comes from a stable background, heterosexual and has a good/stable job and doesn't come with a stack of emotional baggage or past trauma.

@NoviceNewMN I agree with this. Fortunately I am really happy single and have no intention of actuvely looking for a partner however, I'd consider it if somebody happens to appear who impresses me enough to make it worth my while to change what is already a happy and stable life.

I think while some people seem to think that the above ^^ is an unrealistic expectation, that would be a minimum bar for me; except past trauma - that is not the person's fault and it would only be a problem if they hadn't dealt with it.

I tick all of these boxes myself so why should I not expect the same as a bare minimum? I think maybe some people are desperate for a relationship so make huge compromises that backfire but I'm not desperate for that, so I won't. I'd need all of the above and some special chemistry, intelligence, emotional intelligence and a sense of humour that matches mine, good conversation and communication etc to even consider it. And the person would have to be on the same page also that there will be no living together etc.

If nobody like that ever appears, I'm absolutely fine with that: I like being single, have a full life and lots of friends and social activities. Why would I love my standards to enter a relationship that I don't feel 100% keen on? It's a huge demand on emotions, time etc that can be spent on other things. I would be shocked if anybody suitable comes along but 🤷🏻‍♀️ it's not a problem for me if they don't.

*lower my standards 😂

Sorry for typos. Should know by now that I can't multitask!

@NCBlossom

I’ll be honest too I find the whole sexual attraction vs long term great partner is confusing for me!

On OLD I could (sometimes!) attract men who were quite sexy. And that was quite nice in one way, but made me very wary as my Ex, who cheated, was very much like that but seemed such a decent man too.

I find trying to see pass sexual attractiveness quite difficult. And quite depressing with OLD. Do I go for the much older man who I’m not attracted to, but who will be ‘grateful’ I’m younger and more attractive? Hit on by younger men but really quite wary they are wanting the ‘older woman in bed’ experience and I really don’t have the time to dick around.

I want love! And passion! And a nice decent man. It feels incredibly hard to find someone basically my own age, who I am even the smallest bit attracted to, but who also is decent too as I believe I am also decent would be loyal, kind and loving.

It’s OLD brutally makes it all a bit of a trading game!

Ime those older men will not be even slightly grateful for the attention of a younger woman. The type of man who deliberately seeks out a younger woman typically has a robust ego and a sense of entitlement. They believe their experience, 'wisdom' and the (often modest) material possessions they have accrued over their lifetime mean they bring more to the table than younger men, and you are lucky to have them. Its the younger ones who are more likely to be flattered and 'grateful' I've found.

I tick all of these boxes myself so why should I not expect the same as a bare minimum?
100% this! I’m really not sure it’s mostly bad luck. I think it gets harder for women because of the massive age disparity. Men have a much wider pool. And I’ve found so, so many men have a big ‘no go’ issue. Although I have noticed more men putting the effort in looks wise, but as soon as they go to the gym they expect a woman at least ten years younger!

@NCBlossom

I tick all of these boxes myself so why should I not expect the same as a bare minimum? 100% this! I’m really not sure it’s mostly bad luck. I think it gets harder for women because of the massive age disparity. Men have a much wider pool. And I’ve found so, so many men have a big ‘no go’ issue. Although I have noticed more men putting the effort in looks wise, but as soon as they go to the gym they expect a woman at least ten years younger!

Yes I agree men ‘have a much wider dating pool’ due to the age gap disparity because men seem to have no qualms dating someone the age of their daughter or granddaughter whereas a lot of women would find it a big turn off to be dating someone so young . Also society supports these sexist ideas And going to the gym , haha I thought they only required a minimum of two of their natural teeth to think they ‘deserve’ a woman twenty years younger . I say ‘deserve because that’s how a lot of men value women , based on youth and they see younger as better . When you say many men have a ‘ no go ‘ do you mean they won’t date their same age ?

@OddSockReunion

There are very few 'normal' men actually if you are talking about decent, kind, faithful, reliable, solvent, not overweight, not ugly or reasonable looking, comes from a stable background, heterosexual and has a good/stable job and doesn't come with a stack of emotional baggage or past trauma.

@NoviceNewMN I agree with this. Fortunately I am really happy single and have no intention of actuvely looking for a partner however, I'd consider it if somebody happens to appear who impresses me enough to make it worth my while to change what is already a happy and stable life.

I think while some people seem to think that the above ^^ is an unrealistic expectation, that would be a minimum bar for me; except past trauma - that is not the person's fault and it would only be a problem if they hadn't dealt with it.

I tick all of these boxes myself so why should I not expect the same as a bare minimum? I think maybe some people are desperate for a relationship so make huge compromises that backfire but I'm not desperate for that, so I won't. I'd need all of the above and some special chemistry, intelligence, emotional intelligence and a sense of humour that matches mine, good conversation and communication etc to even consider it. And the person would have to be on the same page also that there will be no living together etc.

If nobody like that ever appears, I'm absolutely fine with that: I like being single, have a full life and lots of friends and social activities. Why would I love my standards to enter a relationship that I don't feel 100% keen on? It's a huge demand on emotions, time etc that can be spent on other things. I would be shocked if anybody suitable comes along but 🤷🏻‍♀️ it's not a problem for me if they don't.

Are you me?! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Brilliantly explained and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Took the words out of my mouth.