Men, what is WRONG with you??!

[Aliceclara]

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!

Sadly, I think it's nothing new - look back through the centuries and male dominance was the societal norm. The modern difference is that women aren't prepared to put up with it.

I don't know what the answer is, though... keep on keeping on, I suppose? And, as you say, educate our sons.

You talk about misogyny but still manage to blame women (mothers) for men’s shortcomings.

Having exactly the same conversation with friends last night. I know so many lovely, intelligent, kind, caring women who have had to deal with men walking out in them and their small children recently OR while they were pregnant. When I say so many, I really mean LOADS! I’m so tired of yet another man child, bored of responsibility and deciding it’s all too much for them. It’s made me really think about how I’ll be raising my sons!

Selfishness and entitlement seems rife! No sense of responsibility and no moral code!

I came across a youtube trend of videos called 'women against feminism' earlier with hundreds of thousands of likes. How have women any hope when even our own kind turn against themselves :/

@thelegohooverer

You talk about misogyny but still manage to blame women (mothers) for men’s shortcomings.

That's because the men are loooong gone and the women stay to get all the blame.

IME it's male violence in childhood that breeds male violence in adulthood.

That’s hilarious that you still put women at the root of men’s failings 😂

‘You talk about misogyny but still manage to blame women (mothers) for men’s shortcomings’

I totally see where you are coming from with this, and I for one don’t blame mothers. The only saving grace in what I’ve seen recently is the wonderful in laws who have picked up the pieces of their son’s actions.

For a little perspective....

People aren't coming on here to shout about how wonderful their men are (bar one thread I saw earlier today) so I think it's skewing the perception. There are lots of decent men who wouldn't think about doing half of what we read about in AIBU. Just remind yourself of that.

When will men become feminists? You know, the other 50% of humans?

Think your OP is very interesting.

You are naming the problem (male behaviour) and are angry at the problem. You move onto cause and immediately name mother's.

Assuming your post is sincere you have neatly shown unconscious bias that this behaviour must come back to a failing by a female.

This may be because you don't expect alot from men and therefore don't hold them responsible. Now expand that attitude to society and you can see why we have problems holding men truly responsible for violence, entitlement and mistreatment.

But people don't come on Mumsnet to write about their kind, caring, unremarkable but supportive men. It's the nature of the site. I know very few men who are arseholes but many, many good ones in real life.

Not denying male violence or awful male behaviour. Clearly exists.

But aside from that I do think in a lot of the threads I see it's obvious that the men and women want completely different things. Both moan that the other isn't pulling weight/being fun/appreciating them etc etc. In reality he wants X and she wants Y. No one is right and no-one is wrong.
We generally hear the women's side if we are women. Both parties clearly never talked about how it would work/what they expected. Then the resentment builds.
It would be a lot better if this was all sorted out before couples moved in and had kids.

I may get absolutely flamed for this but here goes i do believe it's an upbringing thing but it's not just men it's women also who can have a poor attitude . I was raised to get on with life I was not number 1 I was not more important than any of my brothers we were equal we all did our bit and we were not wrapped in cotton wool . Family member same age as me raised to believe they are number 1 they are important and special they behave terrible and selfish and it's allowed it's indulged because their parents made them that way . In answer to just what your post says about men being arrogant , immature twats its because they are getting away with it and often have been put on some pedastal at some point of their life and start to believe they are more important than anyone else.

Why inadequate mothers?? Perhaps inadequate fathers breed inadequate sons and also insecure daughters who accept being treated like crap by men as normal because that's how they were treated their fathers.

Most men are absolutely fine. A small minority, perhaps 2 or 3%, are violent and misogynistic. Many boys were on the receiving end of this small group's violence and bullying when young, so men are just as aware of their existence as women. Getting them to stop it isnt easy, as it stems from decades old problems of poverty, social exclusion, contempt for academic education etc which affects 10,000s of British families to this day. There's no magic wand unfortunately.

inadequate mothers?

What?

Too much misogyny,

Yeah, and it's women's fault, apparently....

When male humans feel that "civilized" paths to status and respect/success are closed off, they frequently resort to violence as an alternate route to achieve same.

People aren't coming on here to shout about how wonderful their men are (bar one thread I saw earlier today) so I think it's skewing the perception.

Thus is very true and I do agree.

There are millions of amazing men in the world but you often only hear of the bad ones so it seems like it’s a lot of them. However you only have to look at the crimes committed and 90% of them will be from men. I don’t think it’s how their mothers raised them but more how society treats them as superior.

@Susannahmoody femiinism isn't for men. As such, I try to understand as well as I can the struggles women face and see how I can make my interactions with women as easy for them as possible. I've taught my son to do the same and, so far, he seems to be doing ok. I call out misogyny when I see it, but when you're a little bloke you run the risk of getting your head kicked in. But that's a chance I have to take.

I read FWR every day but rarely comment, it's not my space unless I have an insight into whatever they're discussing on a particular thread. Otherwise I read and try to absorb knowledge.

@thelegohooverer

You talk about misogyny but still manage to blame women (mothers) for men’s shortcomings.

This! ^ The irony!

Also @Aliceclara you may THINK you know your sons, but there's no WAY that you know that they will never behave like some of the men many posters on here complain about. You might think their shit don't stink, but trust me, it does!

Britain has quite a large, menacing and violent youth segment, say males ages 12-20, which doesn't exist quite so out on the open in most other European countries. The young mobs who hang around looking for trouble around shop fronts and underpasses. They mostly grow up as violent thugs and then throw in the British binge drinking culture and it's a recipe for disaster.

@Cam77

Britain has quite a large, menacing and violent youth segment, say males ages 12-20, which doesn't exist quite so out on the open in most other European countries. The young mobs who hang around looking for trouble around shop fronts and underpasses. They mostly grow up as violent thugs and then throw in the British binge drinking culture and it's a recipe for disaster.

Not just British men who are like this. Some countries are much worse.

@thelegohooverer

It was a train of thought post. The irony wasn't lost on me. But if we blame upbringing then surely at least half of the blame lies with women? As I say, I don't know the answer. I just know I've had enough.

And yet here is thread (lighthearted), about what makes a man hot.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4352428-What-instantly-makes-a-guy-hot
Being a decent human doesn’t seem to get mentioned much, but being tall, having tattoos, money and a big penis all seem quite popular

@MrsTerryPratchett you're right, many boys are brought up with violent fathers. I was, and decided if that was what being a dad was I wanted none of it. My life changed for the better when I became a dad. My partner at the time had to have our child via EMCS, and was out of action for a while so I had to do more of the parenting than many men would have liked. I loved it.