Men, what is WRONG with you??!

[Aliceclara]

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!

@Aliceclara

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!

You have written the post I wanted to write but haven't had time. I have been particularly struck by the post from @MummyKittyC the other day, which was the cherry on the top of a cake full of self-entitled absolute assholes. I would like to know what is making these people like this and if they actually know they are abusive, or if they think it is simply normal behaviour.

I despair.

@saraclara

If there was an equivalent site where men complained about their female partners and MILs, MNers would be infuriated by their posts. Especially if they saw one titled 'Women, what is WRONG with you?'

Can you imagine the outcry over here if someone reported that back?

Oh do you mean like the incel sites or the mgtow sites and threads on reddit like ‘ men age like wine women age like milk’?

Or are you referring to the millions of Abusive porn videos posted daily showing women being demeaned , or perhaps the women assaulted daily , or maybe the way one can’t even walking in to fuel ones car without seeing women’s bodies splashed all over magazine covers ( so long as those women fit into the narrow confines of what men approve is sexually appealing and worthwhile ) or maybe you mean the stats on women earning way less than men and doing the lions share of unpaid work ?????
all of these and much more CONSTANTLY sending loud and clear messages to all women that many many men thing we are worthless and inferior

@choccy01 you claim women act just as badly some times ?
I’m not denying that both genders can act poorly in relationships in terms of laziness , rudeness or whatever but the statistics on men actually being entitled and not doing their share of the housework and childcare are there . Go look . That’s immaturity and no women on the whole are not acting as badly as men in that arena .
Nor are women beating men , sexually harassing. Sending unwanted pictures , posting revenge porn of men at ANYWHERE near the rate men are doing these things to women

So please explain how women are being just as bad .

[quote Kittenlittlen]@choccy01 you claim women act just as badly some times ?
I’m not denying that both genders can act poorly in relationships in terms of laziness , rudeness or whatever but the statistics on men actually being entitled and not doing their share of the housework and childcare are there . Go look . That’s immaturity and no women on the whole are not acting as badly as men in that arena .
Nor are women beating men , sexually harassing. Sending unwanted pictures , posting revenge porn of men at ANYWHERE near the rate men are doing these things to women

So please explain how women are being just as bad .[/quote]
So there's two things here.

1. At the extremes men will be worse. Like DV. But I think thats a small minority of cases. I'm aware of one ot two people like that and no one has time for them.

1. I believe the majority of men and women are decent. In those relationships things will breakdown for various reasons. There's countless threads on here of women that had a good time in their younger days, then found a 'provider' had kids and a family. I was reading a thread on that yesterday. They then decide they can't stay with Mr provider because he's too boring or such like. Leave that guy, take the kids and half his stuff and then move on to someone else lumbering the kids with a step Dad and pushing out of the kids biological Father. But YOLO right, sod the kids and poor ex that will take years to financially and emotionally recover (I know poor menz....).

In most relationships bad female behaviour is low to medium level. It's manipulative and constant. Something my brother is going through. He on the other hand snaps occasionally (not in a physical way just in the sense of a reaction to the behaviours) but then of course he's the abuser.

Bad female behaviour presents itself in different ways. It doesn't mean it's less toxic. I also think women have a tendency to bear a grudge for years. Will not let go and get on with their own lives. Whereas with men there's usually a flash point and then things move on.

@MumofPsuedoAdult

For a little perspective....

People aren't coming on here to shout about how wonderful their men are (bar one thread I saw earlier today) so I think it's skewing the perception. There are lots of decent men who wouldn't think about doing half of what we read about in AIBU. Just remind yourself of that.

Exactly!

The only thing I took from OP post is that I the woman's fault. Not hers though, she did her job properly.

But I digress. I think it's absent / uninterested fathers , its a cycle, rubbish dad breeds son who becomes a rubbish dad and so on .
Not in all cases , but I think men are under the impression that making the child is their job done .

@Choccy01

If you think DV is a small minority perhaps you can explain why

40% of women eported at least one incident of physical or sexual violence
since the age of 15,
• 5.8% of women reported such incidents in the past 1

Certainly I wouldn’t call that a small minority ‘

‘ There's countless threads on here of women that had a good time in their younger days, then found a 'provider' had kids and a family. I was reading a thread on that yesterday. They then decide they can't stay with Mr provider because he's too boring or such like. Leave that guy, take the kids and half his stuff and then move on to someone else lumbering the kids with a step Dad and pushing out of the kids biological Father. But YOLO right, sod the kids and poor ex that will take years to financially and emotionally recover (I know poor menz....).’

What IS the mysogynistic bullshit

So I guess the men did t have a good time in their youth huh
I guess they don’t benefit from having women carry birth and raise ( often with little help ) the children they helped create .
They are providing for her ????
Ummm. Hello she is providing him , children , usually housework childcare , and god knows whatelse

But I guess according to your narrative , women owe men because they are taking whilst men are giving . What a crock of shit .
I guess women have no right to leave unhappy relationship
Your sounding so mysogynistic and like one of those pick me women go just buys into the whole men’s paid work is worth more than women’s work in the home therefore he’s ‘providing ‘

Seeing as you think the above stats are a small minority how about the HUGE majority of married men who are on cam sites , using prostitution and porn … I guess your going to try and claim that’s all harmless

@choccy01
Also why is SHE taking half HIS stuff
What the fuck makes the joint family assets HIS

If she’s been home raising kids she has contributed at LEAST half to those assets and they are hers

As much hers as his

@Choccy01‘Domestic and family violence at the hands of a partner is more common than we think. 1. Approximately one in four women (23% or 2.2 million) experienced violence by an intimate partner, compared to one in thirteen men (7.8% or 703,700).‘

Small minority ? I think not

@Chunkymenrock

But people don't come on Mumsnet to write about their kind, caring, unremarkable but supportive men. It's the nature of the site. I know very few men who are arseholes but many, many good ones in real life.

It’s also the nature of the site that you only read one side of every story.

@thelegohooverer

You talk about misogyny but still manage to blame women (mothers) for men’s shortcomings.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Oh do you mean like the incel sites or the mgtow sites and threads on reddit like ‘ men age like wine women age like milk’?

No I don't @Kittenlittlen and you know it.

It's like when people go over to gransnet and then come back here and scathingly say that they're all moaning about their DILs (they're not, there are few posts like that) while not remotely acknowledging the many unfair posts about MILs on here.

We rightly complain about sexist generalisations about women, so it's about time we got our own house in order and stopped with the "men, what's wrong with you?" posting style.

All those that say we only hear people come here to complain or who are having problems , yes that is true in many cases however none of that negates the fact that SO many men are committing domestic violence , so many are being posting revenge porn , harassing women online , in the streets and workplaces etc
The fact women have a FEW places where they can speak out about this stuff is a big deal
The world in general and the internet in particular is still a predominately male space
Hell, try surfing on the internet for five minutes without having images thrust at you of what men think a woman should be , let alone their incel , mgtow or reddit women age like milk forum

saraclara
If there was an equivalent site where men complained about their female partners and MILs, MNers would be infuriated by their posts. Especially if they saw one titled 'Women, what is WRONG with you?'

Can you imagine the outcry over here if someone reported that back?

Oh do you mean like the incel sites or the mgtow sites and threads on reddit like ‘ men age like wine women age like milk’?

Exactly. There are negative generalisations about women littered all over the internet.

The main difference is that when the Incels take action they kill people with demands that all women provide sex. When women take action they just separate themselves from men and lead peaceful single lives.

That’s a huge difference.

@saraclara

Oh do you mean like the incel sites or the mgtow sites and threads on reddit like ‘ men age like wine women age like milk’?

No I don't @Kittenlittlen and you know it.

It's like when people go over to gransnet and then come back here and scathingly say that they're all moaning about their DILs (they're not, there are few posts like that) while not remotely acknowledging the many unfair posts about MILs on here.

We rightly complain about sexist generalisations about women, so it's about time we got our own house in order and stopped with the "men, what's wrong with you?" posting style.

You made a claim that if men said things like this about women there would be outrage

MEn say and do far worse things about and to women all over the internet

I don’t think the OP is part of the problem. I am close to (but mercifully not part of) a marriage which is falling apart because of hideous behaviour on the part of the man. His mother is busy telling all the neighbours the divorce was his wife’s idea (which it was, she found out about his behaviour), holding him while he weeps and asks why his wife would abandon him (she says to him “I don’t know”, she bloody does) and is basically absolving him of any idea his constant repeated infidelity and coercive control could have had any bearing on the breakdown of his marriage. Internalised misogyny is a thing and it’s something we as women need to have a serious conversation about. It’s a toxic mix of societal views of women and a mum’s understandable horror of losing her son to another woman through marrying.

The other part of it is simpler - men do it because they can. There is no social judgment for leaving your family for men as there is for women

[quote Aliceclara]@thelegohooverer

It was a train of thought post. The irony wasn't lost on me. But if we blame upbringing then surely at least half of the blame lies with women? As I say, I don't know the answer. I just know I've had enough.[/quote]
Why ‘at least’ half?? It is exactly half, if you are looking at it like that, surely?

@saraclara

So let me get this straight , your concerned that women don’t generalise about men because we complain about them doing that to us
……….::but you have nothing to actually say about them doing that repeatedly on literally thousands of platforms. You think complaining about women doing so in one thread on platform is more important

I genuinely believe that all men get a free pass for shitty behaviour because "boys will be boys" it's societies fault, it's run by 90% men!

Whilst we're on the subject, our prime minister is the most disgusting, sexist, racist, Homophobic pig but yet he still represents our country? That's purely because he's a man, if Teresa May behaved like that there would be public uproar. Its disgusting.

@Holly60

I say at least because usually it’s the woman left with the children and three or four people require more than one
It should be split 50/50 for adults and extra for wherever the children are

Oh sorry Holly that wasn’t for me

@Blackopal

Think your OP is very interesting.

You are naming the problem (male behaviour) and are angry at the problem. You move onto cause and immediately name mother's.

Assuming your post is sincere you have neatly shown unconscious bias that this behaviour must come back to a failing by a female.

This may be because you don't expect alot from men and therefore don't hold them responsible. Now expand that attitude to society and you can see why we have problems holding men truly responsible for violence, entitlement and mistreatment.

This

@Pky45

And yet here is thread (lighthearted), about what makes a man hot.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4352428-What-instantly-makes-a-guy-hot
Being a decent human doesn’t seem to get mentioned much, but being tall, having tattoos, money and a big penis all seem quite popular

But hot men don't necessarily make good partners/husbands...

[quote Kittenlittlen]@Choccy01

If you think DV is a small minority perhaps you can explain why

40% of women eported at least one incident of physical or sexual violence
since the age of 15,
• 5.8% of women reported such incidents in the past 1

Certainly I wouldn’t call that a small minority ‘

‘ There's countless threads on here of women that had a good time in their younger days, then found a 'provider' had kids and a family. I was reading a thread on that yesterday. They then decide they can't stay with Mr provider because he's too boring or such like. Leave that guy, take the kids and half his stuff and then move on to someone else lumbering the kids with a step Dad and pushing out of the kids biological Father. But YOLO right, sod the kids and poor ex that will take years to financially and emotionally recover (I know poor menz....).’

What IS the mysogynistic bullshit

So I guess the men did t have a good time in their youth huh
I guess they don’t benefit from having women carry birth and raise ( often with little help ) the children they helped create .
They are providing for her ????
Ummm. Hello she is providing him , children , usually housework childcare , and god knows whatelse

But I guess according to your narrative , women owe men because they are taking whilst men are giving . What a crock of shit .
I guess women have no right to leave unhappy relationship
Your sounding so mysogynistic and like one of those pick me women go just buys into the whole men’s paid work is worth more than women’s work in the home therefore he’s ‘providing ‘

Seeing as you think the above stats are a small minority how about the HUGE majority of married men who are on cam sites , using prostitution and porn … I guess your going to try and claim that’s all harmless[/quote]
Right but it's fine to have a thread Men what is wrong with you. Imagine a thread on here which started with Women in the title instead of men. It's misandry isn't it but that's ok right.

You sound quite triggered.