Men, what is WRONG with you??!

[Aliceclara]

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!

[quote Kittenlittlen]@Holly60

I say at least because usually it’s the woman left with the children and three or four people require more than one
It should be split 50/50 for adults and extra for wherever the children are[/quote]
right but surely if a man abandons his family then surely he bares the responsibility for the fall out of this. He is still to blame for his absence, and for any struggles that the woman faces as a result of parenting alone.

Men hold all the power in the world. Economically, physically, in all the ways that matter. They always have, it's just that lip service has been paid to a few concessions to women in the last century.

They behave the way they do because they can. There are very few consequences- just look at the number of rape convictions.

@Kittenlittlen

All those that say we only hear people come here to complain or who are having problems , yes that is true in many cases however none of that negates the fact that SO many men are committing domestic violence , so many are being posting revenge porn , harassing women online , in the streets and workplaces etc The fact women have a FEW places where they can speak out about this stuff is a big deal The world in general and the internet in particular is still a predominately male space Hell, try surfing on the internet for five minutes without having images thrust at you of what men think a woman should be , let alone their incel , mgtow or reddit women age like milk forum

The thing is you say "so many" men commit domestic violence or post revenge porn. In reality around 4-5% of men commit DV over their lifetimes (although almost always against multiple women) and revenge porn incidents are a few tens of thousands at most. Now whilst every incident is one too many, it is not the majority of men or even a significant minority of men, it is a very small minority.

Yes there are incels etc. and these men are obviously abhorrent, but these people are not representative. Just as you do not want to go down the forums of women looking to entrap men with pregnancy, have multiple kids by different dads to get multiple maintenance payments etc. The thing with online is that you can find the awful people whatever their sex or agenda.

Body pressure is just as bad for men, adverts show men slim and trim, marketing is for men with six packs, perfect jaw lines. 90% of women's profiles on dating sites/apps state things such as 6ft+ only etc.

The problem is not "men", is is a minority of men who are arseholes, just as he problem is not "women" but a minority of women who are arseholes.

@Choccy01

Lol not triggered at all
Just wondering why you’re crusading against women having this thread when there’s so much horrible thread and sure that men having actually abusing women
You seem to have your priorities very very wrong

[quote Kittenlittlen]@Choccy01‘Domestic and family violence at the hands of a partner is more common than we think. 1. Approximately one in four women (23% or 2.2 million) experienced violence by an intimate partner, compared to one in thirteen men (7.8% or 703,700).‘

Small minority ? I think not[/quote]
It is however a small minority of men, 3-5%, who commit DV, they just do it against multiple partners over time. Unfortunately women will also report DV in surveys, but not to the Police. It is why Clare's Law is so important, so many women begin relationships with serial abusers, where in reality they should not be anywhere near them.

[quote Kittenlittlen]@choccy01
Also why is SHE taking half HIS stuff
What the fuck makes the joint family assets HIS

If she’s been home raising kids she has contributed at LEAST half to those assets and they are hers[/quote]
You seem to have missed the broader point that it's morally reprehensible to use a man in the way I outlined.

I'll be honest I come on these boards to get a female perspective. I know I'm not going to agree a lot of the time but the only way to truly get an insight is to look at a site where people can express their feelings.

Women have more choice than ever in many ways. I just don't think this site necessarily portrays the modern reality. It's interesting to hear though.

There's other social media platforms which are quite the opposite. There's seem to be a growing polarisation and I can see that growing. Men more and more being told 'to go their own way'. Its easy to dismiss it all as misogyny and I'm not saying there isn't an agenda for some but at the same time you have to try to understand what is being said.

I'm not defending Men necessarily by the way. I know what selfish and crappie male behaviour looks like. What I'm saying is if Men have seen that behaviour, tried a lot harder than their Father's generation because they recognised it was wrong but are then still held out as abusers and the like I think a lot of men do reach a point of saying well what's the point.

[quote Kittenlittlen]@Choccy01

Lol not triggered at all
Just wondering why you’re crusading against women having this thread when there’s so much horrible thread and sure that men having actually abusing women
You seem to have your priorities very very wrong[/quote]
The issue is you seem to come across as having something bordering on hatred for all men, rather than the minority of bad ones. Many of us have lovely partners, husbands, sons, brothers, fathers, friends etc. and your "all men" attitude does not reflect reality.

@MatildaIThink

‘
The thing is you say "so many" men commit domestic violence or post revenge porn. In reality around 4-5% of men commit DV over their lifetimes (although almost always against multiple women) and revenge porn incidents are a few tens of thousands at most. Now whilst every incident is one too many, it is not the majority of men or even a significant minority of men, it is a very small minority. M

Actual data please . Dont just stage the the same 4-5 % of men are abusive , give actual research

Also what percentage of married men do you think are using cam sites and prostitutes ?

‘
Yes there are incels etc. and these men are obviously abhorrent, but these people are not representative. Just as you do not want to go down the forums of women looking to entrap men with pregnancy, have multiple kids by different dads to get multiple maintenance payments etc. The thing with online is that you can find the awful people whatever their sex or agenda.’

Oh boy this one actually made me laugh . Please show me ONE site where women are scheming to ‘entrap men ‘ . Just one

Honestly , you are kidding right

Men are most definately the problem . Just look at the HUGE amount of deadbeat dad and you think the problem is women trying to entrap men.
That kind of nonsense exactly like the rhetoric the incels spew

Let me ask . How much education have you received on gender inequality

@MatildaIThink

No I actually have some lovely men in my life . I’m simply educated on the ways in which men exploit women . The second industry is a huge one and I don’t see any effort to improve from men on that front
If anything men seem more qbd more happy to support that

[quote Kittenlittlen]@Choccy01

Lol not triggered at all
Just wondering why you’re crusading against women having this thread when there’s so much horrible thread and sure that men having actually abusing women
You seem to have your priorities very very wrong[/quote]
Crusading. Really?

I gave an example which I believe to be true as I've seen the narrative on these boards so many times.

I know what bad male behaviour looks like. I saw it growing up.

I just don't understand why we are meant to talk about the ills of men and not be critical of women in the same way.

@MatildaIThink

And whilst I agree that there’s increasing polarisation I don’t agree with the above issue , millions owed to women in child support , the violence issue , online harassment that men are doing anything to improve the situation of their behaviour
Perhaps you could give me some examples of how you feel they are

Also please show me where I said all men?

I believe many not all are either

I really do hope you can provide the stats that day only 4-5 % of men are avusive ( wayyyyy to many )
And I really would like to hear solid examples of how men are pushing for change and not being complicit
Not just men doing what they should be doing and what we all should do ie support our kids , not beat someone up etc but actually pushing to change that bad male behaviour

‘
Body pressure is just as bad for men, adverts show men slim and trim, marketing is for men with six packs, perfect jaw lines. 90% of women's profiles on dating sites/apps state things such as 6ft+ only etc’

Also it’s nothing like it is for women . Go on Instagram go in any media any adult website . Who’s body is critiqued and listed as parts
And yes women do and should ask for 6 foot plus if that’s their preference . Many many men have preferences of how they prefer women to look . Why can’t women ?

Yes there are incels etc. and these men are obviously abhorrent, but these people are not representative.

I agree that these men aren’t representative in their actions, which are extreme. But there are many men, good men by all other accounts, who have sympathy for many of the Incel views.

So many men have swallowed this red pill idea that they are the victims of modern times and that feminists are to blame.

I remember my boss once opining that men are the oppressed ones these days (we were talking about quotas). I waved my hand around the office which is at least 90% male and said “well for an oppressed group you’re not doing too badly” but he hadn’t connected the dots because he has internalised this concept of the beleaguered white male, victim of feminism.

And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers fathers?

Toxic male culture encourages disdain and disrespect for women, including mothers, from a young age.

The problem is more likely to be absent and semi-absent fathers, violent fathers, fathers who abuse mothers, useless fathers and other male role models, alongside or in the absence of fathers.

Boys learn a lot about respect and other attitudes towards women, by observing their fathers.

@MatildaIThink

‘ You seem to have missed the broader point that it's morally reprehensible to use a man in the way I outlined.’

Why do you think a woman who has sacrificed her body , sometimes her health , her career to give a man children is USING him ??

Many would argue he used her to have children whilst he could maintain the freedom to get out each day and work , have children he knows she will mostly care for and sex

Personally I don’t see anyone is using anyone if two people have a child they are both responsible
Are you referring to unwanted pregnancy ? Why are women responsible for contraception ? . How does a man get tricked into not wearing a condom ???
Doesn’t matter what is said about contraception he needs to be responsible for protecting his own Willy and parenting and not put the responsibility on her

Just wondering why you think a woman who’s been home raising kids and then leaves is ‘ using ‘ the man ?

@Lessthanaballpark

Yes there are incels etc. and these men are obviously abhorrent, but these people are not representative.

I agree that these men aren’t representative in their actions, which are extreme. But there are many men, good men by all other accounts, who have sympathy for many of the Incel views.

So many men have swallowed this red pill idea that they are the victims of modern times and that feminists are to blame.

I remember my boss once opining that men are the oppressed ones these days (we were talking about quotas). I waved my hand around the office which is at least 90% male and said “well for an oppressed group you’re not doing too badly” but he hadn’t connected the dots because he has internalised this concept of the beleaguered white male, victim of feminism.

Yes exactly kind of like these men or women who sprout narrative of women USING men and men PROVIDING for them

Whoever doesn’t want kids needs to be using contraception … seems simple .
If it fails , how is that a woman tricking a man ?
What ya gonna do sue God

Legally, society has only recently acknowledged financial, emotional control. But this will help.

As a female what can you do? Well I never took any nonsense from a male. Honestly one tiny comment, your skirts a bit short, be gone!

I rarely second dated a man over 25 who still lived at home. Fuck that. I had so much appreciation for my parents once I left home I was a much better person (I left for uni at 19 and never went back). Same applies to men, even if they just move out for a year or so, anyone who still lives at home and has never moved out ever, nope run a mile. You then know what work is required after you clock off to have food in the house, clean work and play clothes, toothpaste oh and everything else. It's vital that all adults do this in my opinion otherwise you are stunted as an individual.

@Lessthanaballpark

Yes there are incels etc. and these men are obviously abhorrent, but these people are not representative.

I agree that these men aren’t representative in their actions, which are extreme. But there are many men, good men by all other accounts, who have sympathy for many of the Incel views.

So many men have swallowed this red pill idea that they are the victims of modern times and that feminists are to blame.

I remember my boss once opining that men are the oppressed ones these days (we were talking about quotas). I waved my hand around the office which is at least 90% male and said “well for an oppressed group you’re not doing too badly” but he hadn’t connected the dots because he has internalised this concept of the beleaguered white male, victim of feminism.

OK so my challenge to that would be why wouldn't men have sympathy for some of that redpill content. When they've seen it play out and the impact its had on men's lives. It's real. 75% of suicides are male. If we live in such a male dominated / privileged society how can that statistic be so.

I'm not saying men are victims and that redpill stuff does goes too far but there is an underlying point when an increasing number of men are saying it.

It's a small number of men that benefit from society with the wealth, options with regards to women etc. Its not the majority, its really not.

I would say it needs to be fixed and the polarisation needs to be stopped but we aren't going to do that by just saying we'll its you / no it's you. Both men and women needs to get their houses in order.

Most men are absolutely fine. A small minority, perhaps 2 or 3%, are violent and misogynistic.

You see I don't think this is accurate at all. I think that most (over 50%) of men are entitled, sexist and arrogant to a greater or lesser extent. I think most of them think they're better than women because that's how society operates and when we call it out we are told we are shrill or frigid. A proportion of them would be horrified to hear that about themselves but the reality is that the measure of a woman's worth to them is fuckability. Porn has allowed them to command women to do things they don't really want to under the guise of liberation. They remain less likely to be the primary carer for their children and to centre their needs over everyone else in the household. I tried to count the number of men i know in my personal and work life that I genuinely like (without known flaws or troubling views). I managed about three.

75% of suicides are male. If we live in such a male dominated / privileged society how can that statistic be so.

I’m not diminishing male suicide but I feel any debate has to be based on the truth.

Women attempt suicide way more than men (so suffer more with depression) but the methods men use are more successful.

www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508

Ok so I’ve asked you several questions which you seem unwilling or unable to reply to
1 to provide stats about few men being violent
2 how you can possibly say body pressure is as bad with all the porn and sexist culture of women’s bodies . ( yo) do realise women make up the vast majority of anorexia patients )
3 how many married men are using sex service
4 why you think a woman sacrificing herbody and her career very often and her energy and time to have a mans child is USING a man

And now after your last post I’ll ask this . You say why wouldn’t men have sympathy for some of the red pill stuff ‘
Wtaf
Ummm maybe because of all the reasons that have been written all over this post !
Yes men’s suicide rate is higher , sadly ken tend not to seek help !
Women’s depression rates are higher
Rates of eating disorders are higher in women
Women make up the majority of the worlds poor
Women own a tiny minority of the worlds wealth
Women make up the majority of sexual abuse victims

Yet here yoh are asking why wouldn’t men have sympathy for that rubbish . Wow just wow

I’ll ask again . How much education or knowledge do you have of women’s actual suffering poverty abuse against women ?

Both men and women needs to get their houses in order.

Can you list the specific ways in which men and women need to get their house in order?

In what ways do women as a sex class harm men?
In what ways do men as a sex class harm women?

I also want to say something about not conflating wider domestic abuse with physical violence (of which there is depressingly far too much obviously).

Many men also control household finances, tell women who they can see and when, restrict what clothes they can wear, grind them down emotionally through gas lighting etc. This is all abuse and women are far more likely to be the victims than men.

Also remember that men are often physically stronger and bigger than women. Just because they may not yet have been violent the threat of potential consequences in the face of dissent is always there even if not explicitly stated.