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Original poster

Men, what is WRONG with you??!

257 replies

Aliceclara · 18/09/2021 19:33

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!

OP posts:
MyPatronusIsACat · 18/09/2021 21:32

@grapewine

There is no way you can know how your sons act in the company of other men and with no women around. To say otherwise is naive.
Exactly what I said. ^
Original poster
Aliceclara · 18/09/2021 21:36

@Wotwhywhen

If all women had your attitude it would certainly change things! Good on you for protecting yourself and standing up for what you deserve. I always think now, if a man treats me badly/speaks to me disrespectfully - would I accept this from one of my friends? Or someone serving me in a shop? No I bloody wouldn't. In fact I wouldn't be friends with someone like that. So why would I accept it from anyone in my life? Not any more.

OP posts:
Wotwhywhen · 18/09/2021 21:39

[quote Aliceclara]@Wotwhywhen

If all women had your attitude it would certainly change things! Good on you for protecting yourself and standing up for what you deserve. I always think now, if a man treats me badly/speaks to me disrespectfully - would I accept this from one of my friends? Or someone serving me in a shop? No I bloody wouldn't. In fact I wouldn't be friends with someone like that. So why would I accept it from anyone in my life? Not any more. [/quote]
I learned a long time ago that my life is great single. I'd give it a score of 8/10.
A partner better make it 9/10 at LEAST or what's the point?

I ain't putting up with no shit of no one for the sake of not being single. And love? Meh.. of someone loved Mez they'd treat me right, if they dont, why would I love them?

Crikeyalmighty · 18/09/2021 21:41

There are many reasons I feel, quite complex too. Jerry Hall was famous for saying that men looking for a cook in the kitchen, a housekeeper in the home and a whore in the bedroom— sadly in the case of ‘many ‘ (not all ) men I do think she had a point— I think this is the ideal expectation of a good number of men young and old still . I think the easy access of some really hard core porn hasn’t helped— yes I know people will say I watch it too or it doesn’t really affect my marriage— well that’s fine , but I think an awful lot of women aren’t into it but feel they have to turn a blind eye if they want relationships , thereby making a lot of men feel they can get away with watching as much as they want and permanently being on heat without any lead up of quality romance/affection — if women actually said ‘I’m not remotely ok about this’ then a lot of men would have to
Moderate or no relationships either. I think there are a great many irresponsible men out there who think the state is there to pick up the slack if they ‘can’t cope’ with responsibilities and I also think there are far too many older people who believe their adult children’s shit doesn’t stick even when their behaviour says otherwise. If my son behaved like some of the 20 and 30 something young men on here I certainly wouldn’t be making his life easy -son or not and if I had a lovely DIL with kids who wasn’t to blame I would be going out my way to help her.

grapewine · 18/09/2021 21:42

That said, I'm staying single for that reason. Many men I start out thinking are decent turn out to be just as entitled and misogynistic as the ones who showed those colours early on. Life is too short to put up with it.

Generalpost · 18/09/2021 21:45

I do think there can be a mummy's boy issue. Is some of it a generation thing? My children's dads mum. Does everything for him. Dinner on the table when he gets in from work. All he does it take his empty plate in the kitchen not even in the dish washer. His adult daughters are the same. Do you want this dad do you want that i will do that for you dad. It's like the woman have been bought up to wait on the men.

With domestic violence and things like that I think it depends could have something to do with up bringing. But it's still a choice that that person makes to hurt someone

IWillFindYou · 18/09/2021 22:19

@Lovemusic33

I agree with you OP. It’s the reason why I stay single.
Same. I mean, why even bother? Or take the risk?
MatildaIThink · 18/09/2021 22:24

@Aliceclara

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!
Nothing is wrong with "men", just as nothing is wrong with "women". Most people are decent, kind, caring people, regardless of sex, but there are also arseholes of both sees.
Scautish · 18/09/2021 22:30

@thelegohooverer

You talk about misogyny but still manage to blame women (mothers) for men’s shortcomings.
Exactly.

You are part of the problem OP.

WhoIsPepeSilva · 18/09/2021 22:55

[quote DoctorTwo]@Susannahmoody femiinism isn't for men. As such, I try to understand as well as I can the struggles women face and see how I can make my interactions with women as easy for them as possible. I've taught my son to do the same and, so far, he seems to be doing ok. I call out misogyny when I see it, but when you're a little bloke you run the risk of getting your head kicked in. But that's a chance I have to take.

I read FWR every day but rarely comment, it's not my space unless I have an insight into whatever they're discussing on a particular thread. Otherwise I read and try to absorb knowledge.[/quote]
I really like your take here, I was trying to explain the concept of ally-ship to my "feminist" nephew - who incidentally holds some rather unfeminist views IMO and won't be gently told that not all feminists are ok with men proclaiming they are too and getting a bit shirty about being told maybe they could be allies instead.

Not everyone agrees with me but I think as a man he should open to being led by the women he is around in any given moment in terms of what he calls himself here.

saraclara · 18/09/2021 22:57

@Lovemusic33

I agree with you OP. It’s the reason why I stay single.
Well done for feeding the 'Mumsnetters are man haters' trope.
altmember · 18/09/2021 22:59

There's 3 sides to every story.
Also, it's a bit like reviews on Tripadvisor etc - for every vocal negative there are probably 1000's of happy ones who don't post about it.

Kite22 · 18/09/2021 23:05

So, if we are going by things we read on here.

Women! What is wrong with you? Why are you incapable of understanding that we are all individuals and that all men are not the same, but billions of individuals

See how ridiculous you are being? All women don't do this. Tonight, only you are, and we can't blame all women for making sweeping generalisations just because you are.

Of course there is nothing wrong with "men".

I agree with this
But people don't come on Mumsnet to write about their kind, caring, unremarkable but supportive men. It's the nature of the site. I know very few men who are arseholes but many, many good ones in real life.

WhoIsPepeSilva · 18/09/2021 23:07

[quote Aliceclara]@FrippEnos

Exactly. The people who are so keen to tell me about my own sons who they've never met, please, try and see what I'm trying to discuss. This isn't about me personally. What are your answers? What can society do differently? A debate isn't about a personal attack, it's much bigger than that.[/quote]
But you have made it part of the discussion by asserting that you know your DS would not behave this way.

I'm not saying you are wrong about your sons at all. It's the assertion that you can definitively know how your sons act when you are not present. It's a bit Schrodinger's cat.

This assertion is effectively saying your sons are "better" than these men - which they may very well be - but we also know that people who's DS are horrible to women and would assert confidently that they too know their sons would never and that they are "better" than the men that do.

I'm not sure if I'm articulating this at all well and I really don't mean to be offensive in any way, I'm sure your sons are really good people.

houseonthehill · 18/09/2021 23:07

Sexism/chauvinism may still be widespread among men, to varying degrees. Misogyny is much rarer.

WhoIsPepeSilva · 18/09/2021 23:09

I just think your stance on your sons is an important part of the discussion if you see what I mean?

saraclara · 18/09/2021 23:13

@houseonthehill

Sexism/chauvinism may still be widespread among men, to varying degrees. Misogyny is much rarer.
Exactly. The 'all men hate women' thing is just ridiculous. The word misogyny is very over-used on this site. And a lot of the time it's used wrongly.
Youknownothingsnow · 18/09/2021 23:14

You aren’t going to get a representative sample of the wider population from a relationship board on mumsnet! People (mainly women) come on here to get help with their relationship/marriage so it’s bound to show the darker side.

I for one don’t think there is anything new, human beings have been behaving badly since we existed. It seems you are in a moral panic. Most of the men and young men I know (I only have a daughter) are good, honest and hard working. Maybe take some comfort from the fact your sons are good and have turned out well. The bad ones are in the minority!

BigFatLiar · 18/09/2021 23:15

[quote Aliceclara]@thelegohooverer

It was a train of thought post. The irony wasn't lost on me. But if we blame upbringing then surely at least half of the blame lies with women? As I say, I don't know the answer. I just know I've had enough.[/quote]
If you're using MN postings to base your views on then most of the blame lies with the women as most children (therefor young men) are raised with minimal male input.

As previous posters have said don't base your ideas of men on MN it would be akin to asking for Steakhouse recommendations on a vegan site.

MatildaIThink · 18/09/2021 23:19

@houseonthehill

Sexism/chauvinism may still be widespread among men, to varying degrees. Misogyny is much rarer.
I think it depends how you define sexism. Many, probably most men do not believe that men and women are equally good at everything, most however do agree that men and women are equals. That is one of the reasons why we need segregated sports, Emma Radacanu is a great tennis player, highly skilled, deserves all she has achieved and more. Put her up against Federer and she would not stand a chance, the power advantage that him being male gives him far exceeds performance gains that a woman could get from doping.

It is not sexist to recognise that differences exist between the sexes, or that those differences might make one set better at some tasks, it is sexist to think that makes one sex better overall, but I do not know any men who think that way.

Choccy01 · 18/09/2021 23:21

@Aliceclara

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!
You're only getting half the story on here.

Often women act just as badly.

Kite22 · 18/09/2021 23:32

Everything said in the last 5 posts

saraclara · 18/09/2021 23:46

If there was an equivalent site where men complained about their female partners and MILs, MNers would be infuriated by their posts. Especially if they saw one titled 'Women, what is WRONG with you?'

Can you imagine the outcry over here if someone reported that back?

Choccy01 · 19/09/2021 00:06

@saraclara

If there was an equivalent site where men complained about their female partners and MILs, MNers would be infuriated by their posts. Especially if they saw one titled 'Women, what is WRONG with you?'

Can you imagine the outcry over here if someone reported that back?

Indeed
WhoIsPepeSilva · 19/09/2021 01:04

@saraclara

If there was an equivalent site where men complained about their female partners and MILs, MNers would be infuriated by their posts. Especially if they saw one titled 'Women, what is WRONG with you?'

Can you imagine the outcry over here if someone reported that back?

Tbh I wouldn't if they were complaining about being mistreated, undervalued, abused, rights violated etc etc etc. Also accessing support, information, help for the things you do here, health, children, relationships etc etc etc.

In fact I'd be very supportive of the fact they had a safe(ish) space to go and discuss the issues that affect them based on their sex because men need this too.

I do take issue with incel type sites to which I don't think MN is comparable. Most of us don't hate men but are open to the fact that bad men walk among us. There's a man on this thread and he's not been hounded out or denigrated in any way that I've seen.