Men, what is WRONG with you??!

[Aliceclara]

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!

@Cam77

Most men are absolutely fine. A small minority, perhaps 2 or 3%, are violent and misogynistic. Many boys were on the receiving end of this small group's violence and bullying when young, so men are just as aware of their existence as women. Getting them to stop it isnt easy, as it stems from decades old problems of poverty, social exclusion, contempt for academic education etc which affects 10,000s of British families to this day. There's no magic wand unfortunately.

Whilst many men are not necessarily violent, I find that idea that 'only 2 or 3% of them are misogynistic' laughable and farcical.

Most men are misogynistic... Men of ALL ages. There are just varying degrees of it ... Even the 'better' ones have low level misogynism. (Most of them anyway.) They don't like women being better at anything than them, they don't like women being higher achievers than them, they don't like them getting an idea that's better than their (man's) idea! and they hate being told - or even asked - what to do by a woman. And there are other things too. And that is just the low level ones.

In my experience, the less misogynist men tend to come from families with a lot of female influence (unsurprisingly.) Men who were raised by single mothers, and/or who have sisters, are more likely to behave favourably towards women, than men who had more male influence, and spent lots of time with their father, and brothers and male cousins etc...

Despite what the OP said women/the mothers are very rarely to 'blame' for misogynistic men who become useless lumps of lard as husbands. You need to look in the direction of the fathers/brothers/male cousins etc, if you want to apportion blame!

Most men are misogynistic... Men of ALL ages.

I’d have to agree; my dad who wouldnt buy me a kitchen when I was a toddler so that I wouldn’t ever think that women belong in the kitchen and bought me a racing quad bike at 13 turned around and said ‘don’t work a whole week love that’s too much, babies need to be with their mothers all week, why don’t you stop work’ when I had DC 😬😬.

So it’s not even something that’s uniform throughout someone’s life.. it clearly changes. He didn’t question DP when he went back at 6 weeks.

@MumofPsuedoAdult

For a little perspective....

People aren't coming on here to shout about how wonderful their men are (bar one thread I saw earlier today) so I think it's skewing the perception. There are lots of decent men who wouldn't think about doing half of what we read about in AIBU. Just remind yourself of that.

Exactly. This isn't a random cross section of society. This is a cross section of mums who are pissed off or confused about something. There's obviously going to be a lot of griping about poor behaviour from men.

Apologies to men and those without children who are reading this. I'm just referring to the majority.

And @MyPatronusIsACat with all due respect I DO know my sons. I'm not saying they are perfect, but they are kind empathetic human beings. I do believe that some parents (including mothers) breed this misogynistic attitude in their sons. They let them get away with appalling behaviour and arrogance before they've even reached 18. What should we expect of these young men? Some of you are missing the point of my post entirely. It would be irrational to blame fathers exclusively for instilling this behaviour in their sons. Come on, you tell me then? Where does this behaviour start? What makes some men treat their partners without any sort of compassion or respect? I'm not just talking about domestic violence. I'm talking about entitled behaviour, not pulling their weight, the silent treatment, disrespectful language. You all know what I'm talking about. I would never treat anyone of either sex in this way, and neither would my sons. I want people's opinions - not of me, but of this issue. I'm beyond exhausted by the inadequacy of some men, and I believe their numbers are increasing. Slate me if you like, but I'm not seeing anything to make me believe differently.

Yeah I would argue that the majority of men are mysoginistic. It's just that some are much moreso than others. Also, there a considerable amount of the female population with internalised misogyny too.

@Aliceclara

and I believe their numbers are increasing

What makes you think this?

If you think you know how your sons act in a relationship you're deluded and part of the problem.

Your labeling of men in general as uncaring useless individuals is offensive.
Perhaps there isnothing wrong with the make population only yoursamd your friends selection process for potiential long term partners and fathers.
My own experience in my youth was that the "players" always atteacted the female attention and the dependable normal guys wee left on the sidelines. Perhaps women are more attracted to a project rather than a dependable guy‽

@TheFoundations
Lots of things... online dating, cases I see on the news, reading posts on here, talking to my supposedly happily married intelligent professional wonderful friends and hearing about what they put up with on a day to day basis. Small stuff, but controlling behaviour, silent treatment, not appreciating their incredible wives for the beautiful people they are, listening to the ways some of my son's peers talk about and treat women, my own personal experience... I could go on. I know so many women who are genuinely good people, I just don't know so many genuinely good men. I know some of you are lucky to know these men and be with them. I'm saying, maybe it's time men tried to solve this together. It's all about educating people and role modelling how to be a decent human. It's simple, but it's not easy. Being a parent isn't always easy. I know this. I am one. I know of course that there are wonderful men out there. But there should be more of them.

@Aliceclara With all due respect, I DO KNOW MY SONS!

With 'all due respect,' no you don't. No way do you know what they are like, (and how they behave,) when you're not with them. You don't know what they're like when they're with other men, and how they treat women. You're deluded.

where do you want to start?

Parents that think that their child is so much better than everyone else and can do no wrong, leading to a ton of entitlement.

sports where the players are heroes and can do no wrong and are lauded for poor behaviour on the pitch and apologised for when they assault members of the public, drive too fast and sexually assault women.

"newspapers" were men are praised for bad behaviour and women lauded over for having the commodity of being pretty.

Social media were men do stupid things and women earn money by getting men to pay them for dressing up or down and influencers play games for cash or trying on clothes, make up etc.

TV programmes where the nice guys are stupid and dull and the bad boys get the girl.

Films where the nice guys are basically comedy fodder for the macho misogynist boss but doesn't get the girl because the wise cracking saviour waltzes through the door to save everyone

Look at any tv show where the father is shown as a decent figure and they are still portrayed as the fool.

and then there is still the stigma in school of not being in to sports being the child in to books, the quiet child.

and this weird media rant isn't every half of what males have to wade through to still become half decent people, there is still gang culture, poverty, societal expectations that are dated running against new expectations that contradict.

And just to add to the list.

Look at how many on here think that men are just wrong.

@Cam77

Britain has quite a large, menacing and violent youth segment, say males ages 12-20, which doesn't exist quite so out on the open in most other European countries. The young mobs who hang around looking for trouble around shop fronts and underpasses. They mostly grow up as violent thugs and then throw in the British binge drinking culture and it's a recipe for disaster.

Every nation/culture has gangs of young, single men, of course it's not just Britain. It's entirely natural - look at lions!

@FrippEnos

Exactly. The people who are so keen to tell me about my own sons who they've never met, please, try and see what I'm trying to discuss. This isn't about me personally. What are your answers? What can society do differently? A debate isn't about a personal attack, it's much bigger than that.

I think men have always been in control, always had a sense of entitlement, always been violent - going back centuries.

We are all capable of behaving with respect and compassion. It isn't about gender.

Mil is always complaining about how everything is apparently so unfair on men these days and poor men can barely move without being accused of harassing someone.

Before I could even say anything, DH, asked her to explain exactly how she thought men are downtrodden.

What I mean is, it SHOULDN'T be limited to what gender we are. We should have higher expectations of our children, whether sons or daughters.

listening to the ways some of my son's peers talk about and treat women...

Any father reading MN could talk about how some of his daughters'/wife's/partners peers talk about men.

@Pky45

And yet here is thread (lighthearted), about what makes a man hot.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4352428-What-instantly-makes-a-guy-hot
Being a decent human doesn’t seem to get mentioned much, but being tall, having tattoos, money and a big penis all seem quite popular

I took that thread to be about physical appearance, the way it said 'instantly' in the title. Had it been a different title, I would most definitely said all sorts of things such as kindness, love of animals etc. You can't spot those instantly!

I agree with you OP. It’s the reason why I stay single.

Many women are the same. You just don't tend to find that their partners go on Mumsnet to complain about them.

@thelegohooverer

You talk about misogyny but still manage to blame women (mothers) for men’s shortcomings.

That was the thing that struck me. Having said that I do agree with OP. I despair at some of the situations described on Mumsnet but they do so often seem to be facilitated by women.

What I don't understand is why women stay with horrible men?

First sign of shitty behaviour, I'm off sonny.
Think I picking up your pants off the floor every time you have a shower? Fuck that...
I'm not arguing with you about shite either, fuck off..
Want to act entitled and like a thug?... Not near me you don't you bell end..
😜

There is no way you can know how your sons act in the company of other men and with no women around. To say otherwise is naive.