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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feeling absolutely invisible as an ‘older’ single woman

178 replies

SwordfromtheStone · 18/09/2021 08:05

I’m late 40s, not tall or slim or particularly glamorous but I think I scrub up ok. I’m divorced and reasonably happy on my own but I would like to meet someone new at some point.

I just don’t know how though! OLD is an absolute disaster so I was pinning my hopes on real life but since we’ve been able to get out more I’m just not having any luck. It feels like nobody even notices me. The final straw was being out with a crowd last night in a busy pub with a band on. Lots of drink flowing and everyone chatting to strangers. My 2 friends - slightly younger but more importantly ticking the boxes of thin and blonde - seemed to be fighting the men off while not a single person even spoke to me. It’s just so depressing and disheartening.

I knew appearing invisible as you get older was a thing but I hadn’t experienced it before and it’s horrible. How the hell will I ever meet anyone if both online and real life are so hard? 🙁

OP posts:
Toydog · 23/09/2021 01:22

@AShipInTheNight

Hi *@Crikeyalmighty*,

and many thanks for your thoughtful note. Sure, there are tons of generalisations in my note, but it was spurred on by the thread ("Feeling invisible ...") and the postings revolving around that. My note is really about women of all ages having a lot more to play with than they might realise, and that it is entirely within their grasp to make their dreams come true if they so wish. But it won't happen by itself.

Weeding out the dweebs and jerks is a whole separate issue, and one where I have failed myself on more than one occasion, with one resulting in an outright abusive relationship (yes, men can be abused too, and it's easier than you might think).

I'd never claim that it's easy to find a good partner, but it is possible, and it is not an age thing.

Many thanks for your thoughts, take care.

You simply need to spend a lot more time reading about the experiences of women . That seems clear Women do face certain discriminations in dating as they get older that men simply do not . If you claim that’s not true then you are showing that you simply are not informed on that issue . That’s if your not trolling this site
user1481840227 · 23/09/2021 01:22

@AShipInTheNight

Just wanted to pick up one point in your post

suicide is the single biggest killer of men under 45, and the rate is 3-4 times higher than it is for women.

Personally I believe that the reason the rates are so much higher than women is because many suicidal women under that age are mothers, and mothers very very rarely commit suicide. I feel like when the figures get thrown around it kind of implies that men are more likely to suffer more or feel suicidal thoughts more. In my experience it's not true at all. Both men and women can suffer equally. Women can want to end it just as much but it's not an option.

There are also other factors such as men abusing drugs and alcohol more while feeling that way which lowers their inhibitions making them more likely to do it...and things such as men having more access to guns. I know several male farmers who killed themselves with their gun, it's so quick and over in a second, if they didn't have the gun then in some cases it wouldn't have happened.

I don't want to derail the thread, but the figures are skewed for lots of reasons. It's a hard world out there for men but it's also a hard world out there for women. The difference in suicide rates doesn't really mean anything.

Lightlady · 23/09/2021 01:38

Women absolutely can and do feel suicidal as often as men . Who succeeds in actually suiciding is not the same as who is suffering . Many many people of both genders are highly depressed and suicidal
I know a dear friend of mine who said she was near suicide but knew her children literally only had her as she was a single mother so in her words ‘ it wasn’t an option’
Suicide is absolutely tragic no matter who it is but I don’t think it cares any weight on an argument for men somehow having it harder

Lightlady · 23/09/2021 01:41

‘The role that gender plays as a risk factor for suicide has been studied extensively. While females show higher rates of non-fatal suicidal behavior and suicide ideation (thoughts), and reportedly attempt suicide more frequently than males do, males have a much higher rate of completed suicides.‘

Just reading this. I think it helps articulate the point .
Suicide is so truly tragic . I wish there were more resources for people who are in that place

OatBasedVanillaMacchiato · 23/09/2021 07:07

@Crikeyalmighty

Ok — I work in music - get yourself to a Prog rock gig— someone like say Nick masons sauceful of secrets or Procol Harum— hang around the bar at interval— wall to wall late 40s and 50 something guys— plus some who are older than that. If my H goes to toilet I am inevitably ‘hit on’
Haha, this tickled me! I’m a huge prog rock/prog metal fan and pre pandemic used to go to gigs around the country throughout the month. I got hit on often but also made a tonne of good long lasting friends.

OP would get a lot of guys asking her opinions about the band and her music taste but she could say she just saw it advertised and fancied it or something. It’s like 90% men at prog shows. My undergrad thesis was on this subject lol.

ravenmum · 23/09/2021 07:24

Nobody's going to chat up Hyacinth Bucket
Why not, Greg? Please explain.

You sound like me when I have not got out of the house enough lately and have been listening to my own thoughts on loop for far too long.

ManifestingJoy · 23/09/2021 08:18

This is true, and yet men still put the blame back on hyacinth.

Crikeyalmighty · 23/09/2021 08:27

@OatBasedVanillaMacchiato. Ha, so true- am now wondering if I know you- lol!!

Wotwhywhen · 23/09/2021 08:30

Hyacinth Bucket was a hell of a woman.
When you think about it, beneath the over played pomposity and comedy, she absolutely loved her husband, did everything within her power to keep him happy, kept a clean, lovely home and devoted herself to her family. She enabled her husband to work and provide and make it up the 80s / 90s corporate ladder and all whilst looking a bit glam and very well put together, even if her look wasn't of today, it was of her day. Etc.

You'd be a lucky man, Greg, if you could find a woman like Hyacinth.

MorrisZapp · 23/09/2021 09:02

My dad fancies Miss Marple

(the Geraldine McEwan one)

goldshade · 23/09/2021 10:20

I honestly believe it's a state of mind along with good grooming. If you're happy and genuinely smiley you'll attract people.
I'm currently living alone for 18 months due to DH work. I'm 60. Lots of guys chat to me, supermarket, bakery (got asked on a date after chatting in the queue!), waiting outside the fish and chip shop, pub landlord flirted with me the other day, at a bar etc. I'm friendly and happy to chat first or respond to anyone.
Obviously I'm not looking for love but I've made friends and acquaintances this way.
Good hair, good grooming, approachable and smiley.
Chat to anyone you can, you never know what'll happen.

goldshade · 23/09/2021 10:21

And I should add I'm not slim, curvy size 16, not drop dead gorgeous either.

DillonPanthersTexas · 23/09/2021 10:58

Personally I believe that the reason the rates are so much higher than women is because many suicidal women under that age are mothers, and mothers very very rarely commit suicide

My understanding is that women attempt suicide more then men, but they typically try via less lethal means (pill overdose, cut wrists etc) whereas men opt for hanging, shotgun, jumping from heights etc. Blokes have better completion rates.

I always get a bit uneasy though when discussing suicide on here as it all to often turns into a pissing contest as to who has it worse. The fact that there is a huge number of people out there self harming and contemplating ending their lives is tragic and the virtually non existent access to mental health services is a scandal.

AShipInTheNight · 23/09/2021 13:09

Hi again all,

and again, thanks for the feedback. I understand many people here have had bad experiences, but please don't assume all men are bad.

I'm trying to be helpful. I may be doing so rather clumsily, but my intentions are good. The OP effectively asked how to get a guy's heart to beat a little faster, and I've tried to illustrate aspects of that; and in doing so, I'm obviously speaking from personal experiences and how I know myself. We all speak from personal experiences, we can't really do anything else, and while it's easy to attack and chip away at what people say, doing so doesn't help.

Hyacinth: Plenty of studies have been made about what makes people attracted to each other, but the results have been vague. What they generally always conclude, however, is that it happens in a split second, it's virtually instant. If you were to approach a couple of guys because you'd like to strike up a conversation (and maybe more), who do you talk to first? You don't think long and hard, you talk to the one that catches your eye. This isn't a man thing, we all do it; the difference between the two may be tiny, but it's there, and your attention goes to the one who has the edge. Exactly what it is that catches your eye, exactly what that edge is, will vary considerably, but the OP didn't describe encounters at a church fayre.

The OP described a situation where she was out and about with friends in a busy pub with a band on, and felt overlooked: "[my friends] seemed to be fighting the men off while not a single person even spoke to me". Everything I've said revolves around that. Yes, I started blethering away, and it got very lengthy, but this is what it's all about.

Sword, the essence of what I'm saying is that you need to take control, and not think your friends have all that much more than you. In fact, "blonde bimbo syndrome" is a result of getting everything a little too easily, and no good man would want to spend his life with a blonde bimbo. If the only thing somebody (irrespective of gender) has to offer in a relationship is good looks, the relationship will probably go south very quickly.

That doesn't mean anybody can get away with ignoring the attraction aspect. We are physical beings, and what we see influences how we feel. Thinking it can be some other way will only lead to disappointment and resentment, and it's important for both parties to light that initial fire, and to keep it burning if a strong, romantic relationship is the objective. Looking after ourselves and presenting ourselves well is another way of saying "I care about how you feel. I want to make you feel good." and that's a very positive sentiment. This is also where natural good looks can be a curse in disguise; the signal being sent isn't real, it hasn't arisen because the person wanted it to, and the outcome is unwanted attention and misunderstood intentions. Models and celebrities have always found it hard to get good partners, and being able to control the signals you send is to your advantage. And you probably only have to crank it up a little bit to get the edge.

@goldshade many thanks for your post. I think you said a lot of what I've been trying to say, but more succinctly. It isn't an age thing at all.

This got very long again. Smile Take care.

ravenmum · 23/09/2021 13:21

My exh used to use the word "bimbo", too.

Calibrate · 23/09/2021 14:45

@MoreStuffingMatron

My lighthearted advice would be to lose the slim blonde friends, forget meeting anyone in pubs and continue being happy in your own skin and doing things that you enjoy.

I am in my 50s, single, no oil painting and overweight. I am cheerful and friendly and not looking for a boyfriend. Nevertheless I have been asked out by a number of men randomly in real life.

I have the same experience. Over 50, overweight (size 22) and I don't think I am anything to look at.

I have had two long term relationships, and have never really dated, my relationships were forged from friendships.

I assume no one will be interested in me because I am fat and old, but after the demise of my last relationship I couldn't believe how many really nice men threw their cap in the ring. I talk to anyone and everyone and I think that is the key.

AShipInTheNight · 23/09/2021 15:03

Hi @ravenmum,

why do I feel I'm tiptoeing across a minefield? Smile I gather from your note you found my use of the word offensive, but few words have absolute meanings outside context. My use of the word as an illustrative term shouldn't cause offence, and you didn't say anything when I used the words jerk and dweeb about men. Actually calling somebody something like that is a different matter. Peace, please.

ravenmum · 23/09/2021 15:20

The term "bimbo" does cause offence, as you noticed. It's a derogatory term. If I informed you that you shouldn't feel as if you're walking on a minefield, it wouldn't placate you or stop you feeling that way, would it? What effect are you hoping to achieve by telling me that a word I find offensive shouldn't offend me? Note that I'm making these points in a peaceful way as part of a polite discussion.

I have no opinions on either "dweeb" or "jerk", as I am not from the US and thus not entirely aware of their connotations.

Sorry the thread is a bit OT by now OP, but I think it was reaching its natural end anyway!

AShipInTheNight · 23/09/2021 16:03

Hi Raven, and thanks for your thoughts. Actually, if you told me to calm down and not worry about it, I would feel more at ease. As for the words, I think that used as descriptive terms, they don't have the same connotations as when used in name-calling, but I'm sorry if I caused offence, that never was my intention. I hear jerk used regularly, so I've never thought about it as particularly American. Take care.

ravenmum · 23/09/2021 16:53

Thanks for the apology, Greg.

For clarity, I don't want you to feel at ease; I'd rather you felt put off of using the word "bimbo". I wasn't asking you to imagine me reassuring you by telling you not to worry about it. I meant you should imagine me denying the validity of your feelings; telling you that I was not making you feel that way, so your feeling was incorrect.

To help you achieve your intention to avoid offence, I'd recommend avoiding all uses of derogatory terms for women on a website where the vast majority of users are women.

ravenmum · 23/09/2021 16:55

Oh, and to make it perfectly clear, you are more than welcome to call me up on it if I say anything you find sickening.

ManifestingJoy · 23/09/2021 17:25

Eugh we have all had a few boyfriends im sure. We all have male colleagues, brothers etc

So men's input is not hard to find. It's not rare. Dont offer it up like it's rare or valuable. It isnt.

We are trained to see ourselves through a patriarchal lens from birth so the last thing i want is more male feedback.

I want a man who can see things through a woman's lens. My last bf could and did.
He was worth it. Not many are.

We arent all damaged wary, fearful of men etc... We dont need to be told namalt although... a lot are.

Find me a woman who wants just any old boring mansplaining man 😆 That woman doesnt need yr help.

It reminds me of the awful justaboy who used to loiter on the dating boards spoiling it, saying really crappy things with a smily face like "it's a fact ladies' 😀

He was well in to his 60s and kept trying to tell us what men found attractive. He was The Ambassor for men you see.
He Private messaged everybody on that board. Offered to give feedback on their profiles! So nice of him 🙄
IM NOT TRYING TO APPEAL TO A 65 YEAR OLD MAN WHOSE LAST RELATIONSHIP WAS WITH A WOMAN FROM A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. His 2nd wife left him and good for her. She earned those papers. HE Is "worried about her mental health" 😂😂😂

leavesthataregreen · 23/09/2021 17:37

I went through a decade of invisibility. It stopped when I started weight training. Partly improved posture but also, you start to feel stronger and more confident.

Decide not to be invisible. Get fit. Start weightlifting as it will give you incredible confidence, posture and muscle definition, whatever your weight and height. Wear something that suggests you are self confident - something with a bit of flair. Get a good haircut. Be a bit cheeky. If you like the look of someone smile or catch their eye. You don;t have to pursue it if you change your mind.

Kittenlittlen · 23/09/2021 23:10

@AShipInTheNight

Hi *@ravenmum*,

why do I feel I'm tiptoeing across a minefield? Smile I gather from your note you found my use of the word offensive, but few words have absolute meanings outside context. My use of the word as an illustrative term shouldn't cause offence, and you didn't say anything when I used the words jerk and dweeb about men. Actually calling somebody something like that is a different matter. Peace, please.

@AShipInTheNight Women can be called jerks and dweebs . There is zero implication about their sexual availability nor any judgement on it

Words like bimbo , slut etc place judgements purely on WOMENS sexual behaviour and it appearance and are demeaning sexist and offensive .

Also , you claim that none of this has anything to do with age for women . So I’m wondering just how informed you are if the studies that show that as women age their preferences for men age with them ie the vast majority of women are mostly attracted to men their age or close whereas men have been found repeatedly to be MOST attracted to 22 yr olds regardless of whether the man himself is 20 or 80 .

Also how much have you read about women’s real world experiences of how they afe treated differently to men as they get older. I’m assuming. How much do you know about women being judged as less attractive than men of the same age in randomised studies ?

All the social and cultural factors DO have a huge impact for many women . Not all , but many
Maybe you should think twice before coming here with zero education in any of that telling women our lives experiences are not real and we don’t know better than you because your a man

Don’t pretend your ‘ advice’ is well meaning when it’s just another attempt to negate many women’s feelings and experiences

Kittenlittlen · 23/09/2021 23:13

@ManifestingJoy

‘We are trained to see ourselves through a patriarchal lens from birth so the last thing i want is more male feedback.

I want a man who can see things through a woman's lens. My last bf could and did.
He was worth it. Not many are.’

Spot on . So few men are taught to even consider women’s point of view let alone actually read about it or learn anything about gender and how women are treated before they are off and running , trying to mansplain why women just have it wrong

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