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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feeling absolutely invisible as an ‘older’ single woman

178 replies

SwordfromtheStone · 18/09/2021 08:05

I’m late 40s, not tall or slim or particularly glamorous but I think I scrub up ok. I’m divorced and reasonably happy on my own but I would like to meet someone new at some point.

I just don’t know how though! OLD is an absolute disaster so I was pinning my hopes on real life but since we’ve been able to get out more I’m just not having any luck. It feels like nobody even notices me. The final straw was being out with a crowd last night in a busy pub with a band on. Lots of drink flowing and everyone chatting to strangers. My 2 friends - slightly younger but more importantly ticking the boxes of thin and blonde - seemed to be fighting the men off while not a single person even spoke to me. It’s just so depressing and disheartening.

I knew appearing invisible as you get older was a thing but I hadn’t experienced it before and it’s horrible. How the hell will I ever meet anyone if both online and real life are so hard? 🙁

OP posts:
SwordfromtheStone · 20/09/2021 21:58

@ZipOnBy my old username was AGoodYearfortheRoses - such an under-rated singer/songwriter. Very good advice too, I have changed - over the years but more so over the past couple for various reasons not all of them COVID.

As @5128gap says I need to figure out who I am now - or who I want to come across as.

OP posts:
DailyMailAintShit · 20/09/2021 22:50

@E11en

I know what you mean but I'm not going to let it diminish me. I've ''ring fenced'' things that spark joy that do not require a man. I am working on being braver, going places alone, a number of books I want to read on the subject of stepping out of one's comfort zone, bravery, Dr Maureen Gaffney has a new book out on middle age (it's a positive book).

I'm 51 and feel that dating and love is over for me and I just want to accept that and channel energy in to being braver, getting more out of life, pushing myself to go places. What I do not want is to waste the next decade trying to get some random fairly mediocre man to get out of the sweet shop (on line) and commit to me.

And that's no criticism of mediocrity. I'm probably not all that special myself but do I have to be?

I know I'm sitting in bed as I type this so it strikes me that I might be all talk, but I suppose my mindset is to attract LIFE not a man.

I've not read the whole thread, but fuck me I want this in a frame! A 'mindset to attract LIFE'.
Kittenlittlen · 21/09/2021 00:21


‘Eg red, fitted dress, big hair, pencil skirt, knee boots...Coat with a tie round the middle....wedges. Wrap dress. Glasses as in on your nose. Fitted trousers tucked into knee boots. Nothing floaty or patterny or too arty or bohemian or vintage.’

No offence to anyone who’s rocking any of these and I’m sure they pull it off beautifully but I never would Some of these ( not all would make me feel like a space traveller lol .
Just curious by not anything floaty, patterns bohemian or vintage
They are all very feminine styles . I see loads of women , my daughters friends , friends of mine wearing things like this that look gorgeous

Kittenlittlen · 21/09/2021 00:23

@Kittenlittlen

‘ ‘Eg red, fitted dress, big hair, pencil skirt, knee boots...Coat with a tie round the middle....wedges. Wrap dress. Glasses as in on your nose. Fitted trousers tucked into knee boots. Nothing floaty or patterny or too arty or bohemian or vintage.’

No offence to anyone who’s rocking any of these and I’m sure they pull it off beautifully but I never would Some of these ( not all would make me feel like a space traveller lol .
Just curious by not anything floaty, patterns bohemian or vintage
They are all very feminine styles . I see loads of women , my daughters friends , friends of mine wearing things like this that look gorgeous

And I ask purely from curiosity . I think women should totally wear whatever THEY love regardless of if it’s pants tucked into boots or a floaty dress
ravenmum · 21/09/2021 07:52

I used to think of myself as a bit of a rock chick
Get your mojo back OP! Nothing to do with men or OLD or pubs. So that you look in the mirror in your own home and see a rock chick (or whatever style you fancy) looking back at you. Doesn't matter if that rock chick is a bit older, she just needs to look like she has her act together. Get some new/different clothes, have a different haircut, put on some lipstick, and go to some concerts, not to pick up men: to cheer yourself up by listening to some loud music and jiggling around... or what is it you do these days to have fun? :)

SwordfromtheStone · 21/09/2021 18:18

Thanks @ravenmum you've really nailed how I feel and where I'd like to be.

OP posts:
5128gap · 21/09/2021 18:42

@TheFoundations

A male friend told me (not sure if this comes from somewhere else?!) that men control access to relationships and women control access to sex

What does this even mean? It can't be as simple as it looks, because if it is, it's clearly rubbish. What am I missing?

It just means that men want sex and women want relationships and that they each rely on the other to give them what they want. It implies transaction, that each trades the thing they can offer for the thing they want. I think there can be some truth in it, as men are often less keen to comit and place higher priority on sex, but it's a huge generalisation of course.
AShipInTheNight · 22/09/2021 14:05

Hi,

I stumbled over this thread in a Google search, and skimming through the postings I thought I'd do an emotion dump from a man's point of view. I'm not going to pull any punches, and I don't expect to make any friends, but I trust that at least some of the readers will appreciate a frank view from the other side. It's obviously tragic that there are "sides" to this, and that's something I've tried to overcome for decades, but with mixed results. Either way, I'm not trying to present a balanced case, I'm simply trying to explain why men can easily feel overlooked and uncared for, but at the same time I'm not trying to score any cheap points or fuel an argument. Horse's mouth, straight from the liver, loaded with generalisations but laced with truth.

In the following I'm using the word "you" in a general sense, I don't mean to address anybody in particular.

I'm a man, 61 years old, with an average (high single digit) number of relationships behind me. The most recent one ended tragically after 12 years in 2012, due to cancer. That isn't really relevant, but it does make it a bit harder to turn me into a hate object, so maybe more people will listen and reflect on what I have to say.

It's a popular misconception that men's emotions are stunted and crude. This observation is invariably made by women, so permit me to suggest that the truth probably is that our feelings are inhibited (rather than stunted) and poorly communicated, and that what is subsequently heard is poorly understood.

A boy's life revolves entirely around being self-sufficient, "strong", and successful. Boys don't cry, on the contrary: they are expected to succeed in every possible way, and so we learn to suppress anything and everything that doesn't fit in that mould. Those that totally fail go to the ground; suicide is the single biggest killer of men under 45, and the rate is 3-4 times higher than it is for women. Men that don't fail hard enough become abusers -- of alcohol, drugs, and, yes, women (and everybody else). Those that fail less dramatically become losers, and go through life wondering why it's so miserable.

It isn't so much a case of how we're brought up, it's a million years of biological evolution. Nature has no use for beta, gamma, and what follows, males. Nature wants alpha males that can fight, kill, protect, and provide; the rest are a waste of space and food. This makes men uniquely hopeless at finding a foothold in a modern society, unless they have the success to prove themselves. So what do we do? "Success", in this context, can mean anything and everything, including simple wealth, jobs, flashy cars, attitude, violence, weapons, sporting achievements, trophy dogs, and, yes, trophy girlfriends and wives. The list goes on and on. A man has a need to prove himself, and the more desperate he is, the more important his possessions become.

I could explore this in great depth, but I'm not writing a book, so I'll tunnel through the mountain rather than climb over it. I trust the above lays the ground for you, and while it comes across as something of a horror story, it also holds a golden key for you girls, provided you want it. While men's emotions aren't necessarily simple, it's very easy to attract a man and keep him happy. It does require a little effort, and you may find this meaningless and at odds with your other interests and priorities, but, well ... what, actually, are your interests and priorities? Love and relationships are like beautiful gardens: they don't just happen by themselves, they require effort and maintenance on a continuous basis. Sometimes the efforts we have to make may seem peculiar, but that's no reason not to try. Are you honestly and seriously willing to make an effort? Or do you expect fantastic men to just drop out of the sky and land at your feet?

Men are like dogs. Some readers may be cheering at the thought, but it only highlights how little they understand. You say you want a man, but what are you prepared to do to get a man and make him feel happy? More than you'd do for a dog? Or less? An old saying is that the route to a man's heart goes through his stomach, and there's an element of truth in that. What does a dog want? If you give him food, love and affection, a nice belly rub and some good play time, his love for you will be undying. He will shower you with love and kisses, growl at your feet, yearn for you and cry when you're not there, and defend and protect you from anything he thinks might harm you. A good man will, in the most literal sense, give his life for you. He will be your most loyal friend until his dying day, but not because of anything you think you can take away or force him to do. It's because you're kind to him, because of how you make him feel, because of what you give him (however simple, obvious and self-explanatory it is), and his love and gratitude will be boundless. Would you be kind to a dog?

Let's explore that a bit. I once read an interview with a woman who'd had a boob job. She was around 50 and quite attractive, but she wanted to crank things up a bit. "Big hair, big smile, big boobs", as she put it. Big boobs isn't a thing for a lot of guys, and while I have a lot of respect for Dolly Parton (for entirely different and honourable reasons), I wouldn't recommend that route; in fact, a lot of really nice guys would probably feel inadequate and intimidated. Rather, it's a simple case of making your man feel good, make him feel he's struck gold, make him feel like a king, and that doesn't have to take a lot. It's all about making an effort and creating a little bit of a stir. If you make an effort to make somebody feel good, you're telling them you love them. Who doesn't want to be loved? And why wouldn't you want to make him feel loved? Is it horrible and disgusting to make your man go "Wow!"?

Men like excitement. That's why boys climb trees and fall down, that's why men burn tyres and crash cars; climb mountains; jump out of aeroplanes; ride motorcycles; go fishing; play pinball; watch Star Trek; and a lot of other "stupid" stuff.

Men like excitement, and young, fit, and tall are exciting, but not a fraction of the full spectrum available to you; those things are more like freebies, a kind of starting bonus some people get. Nature does deal cards randomly and unequally, but by far most people get a decent hand with a lot of potential wow factor. And if you think you're a bit short, there are things you can do (big hair, big smile ...) to improve your hand. No, I'm not saying women should universally get boob jobs, but I am saying that nobody's going to chat up Hyacinth Bucket.

Men like excitement, quelle surprise! Who wants a boring partner? I don't, do you? Do you want a boring man? I've lost count of how many men I've seen head for a life in the marital doldrums, with wives that can bore the paint off a wall. Why do so many women turn everything off when they tie the knot? It's as if there's this big switch with two settings: "Hunt man" and "Can't be bothered".

Give a man a little excitement, make him go "Wow!", and you'll bring out his dog heart. He'll be at your beck and call night and day, and his love and affection for you will never die. You and he will spend your lives in a beautiful garden you have built together, and all it has taken is a little bit of effort; a little bit of something, however simplistic, given to somebody else, for no good reason other than to be kind and make him feel good. Throw him a bone, and he'll bring a thousand bones back to you.

This is a bit hastily written, but it's an honest dump of my thoughts and feelings; I mean no offence, but I am becoming disillusioned. This is not an age thing, Helen Mirren is 15 years older than I am, and smoking hot. A mature woman can be so much more alluring than a young bimbo, but it's as if after some point in their lives, a lot of women simply stop living and stop caring.

So, go on, blame some man you know, hate me, call me every evil under the sun, tell me I am crude and simple, stunted in my emotions, always thinking about one thing ... no, wait, I beat you to it. I've heard it all before. In all my (relatively few) relationships my partner's happiness has always been my priority, but only once did I feel this was reciprocated. It actually isn't hard, I've let the cat out of the bag, I've told you how to cast spells that will make a man do anything you want. All you have to do is lift a finger and do it.

-- Greg

EccentricaGalumbits · 22/09/2021 14:08
Hmm
ravenmum · 22/09/2021 14:22

Is that an excerpt from your book, Greg?
Wish you all the best in your endeavours to ensnare Helen Mirren. I believe she really likes dogs.

5128gap · 22/09/2021 14:54

Sounds like a lot of hard work mate to be honest. I think I'll stick with the young fit tall ones. Less to say, and I like a quiet life.

Wotwhywhen · 22/09/2021 15:12

@AShipInTheNight

Fuck off and sink.

ManifestingJoy · 22/09/2021 17:14

Did anybody here say they wanted a man ???

Crikeyalmighty · 22/09/2021 17:33

Thing is Greg, plenty of women on here have been there and done all that in spades and still ended up with a bloke who shags some young colleague who is impressed by a bit of power and money or who sat sexting randoms off Facebook or gambled away their savings behind their back— and plenty of men over40 decide to stop bothering with clothes or weight or doing any chores and switch the TV on and consume a 4 pack most nights — so forgive me if I say that there is a reason a lot of women become boring - it’s because a great many of them somewhat lose the will and no longer feel a desparate need to have those bones thrown back to them by men who aren’t worthy of them

AShipInTheNight · 22/09/2021 18:01

Hi @EccentricaGalumbits (it pains me to write that, but never mind),

why the sceptical face? I'm not pretending to present any universal truth, these are simply my own feelings in a condensed form.

Take care.

AShipInTheNight · 22/09/2021 18:03

Hi @ManifestingJoy

Yes, the thread is called "Feeling absolutely invisible as an ‘older’ single woman", and started out by somebody describing how they felt overlooked when out and about with some friends.

Take care.

Wotwhywhen · 22/09/2021 18:06

Someone has the Incel rage.

"I am feeling invisible"

Does not need..

"But menz"

It needs,
"We know that one sugar, pull up a chair, have a cuppa and let's rant."

AShipInTheNight · 22/09/2021 18:10

Hi @Crikeyalmighty,

and many thanks for your thoughtful note. Sure, there are tons of generalisations in my note, but it was spurred on by the thread ("Feeling invisible ...") and the postings revolving around that. My note is really about women of all ages having a lot more to play with than they might realise, and that it is entirely within their grasp to make their dreams come true if they so wish. But it won't happen by itself.

Weeding out the dweebs and jerks is a whole separate issue, and one where I have failed myself on more than one occasion, with one resulting in an outright abusive relationship (yes, men can be abused too, and it's easier than you might think).

I'd never claim that it's easy to find a good partner, but it is possible, and it is not an age thing.

Many thanks for your thoughts, take care.

Crikeyalmighty · 22/09/2021 19:01

@AShipInTheNight. I don’t agree with some of your post but I do actually agree with you on the fact though that through work I know some very successful older men (60 plus) who are long term and I would presume happily married but certainly aren’t married to complete permanently dolled up sirens— however the wives I know in this situation seem very supportive, well balanced , loyal and down to earth and good company — yes they look like they care about their appearance but they aren’t fake either to look at or chat with.

ravenmum · 22/09/2021 19:27

Greg, try reading the forum a bit more and consider that women may already have heard about toxic masculinity and abuse towards men. And that they might listen and respond more positively to succinct discussion than to someone telling them they usually fall prey to a serious misconception, then giving them a full university lecture about they shouldn't get bigger boobs as not all men want that, but should maybe get bigger boobs after all as men don't want them to be ugly.

Also read through the thread and you may notice that OP's key problem is not that she is unaware of how to Treat Her Man Right.

When you're reading through the forum you'll see that there are a few men who post, too, and that when they are respectful and join in the discussion as equals, they are treated the same way in return. Look forward to further posts from you along those lines, if you are not just here to troll us.

SwordfromtheStone · 22/09/2021 20:32

@AShipInTheNight I’m going to try and take what you wrote in the spirit it was (hopefully) meant. I think some of what you say is interesting but you’re spectacularly missing the point - I don’t think I need advice on how to Look After My Man, I was more hoping to talk about how to meet one in the first place 🤦🏻

OP posts:
YouTubeAddict · 22/09/2021 22:29

I say this as a really shy person who hates crowds but hey…Maybe next time you go out, set yourself a challenge. It could be anything and maybe start small, like initiating a chat with a stranger. Even if they’re not necessarily your type, it’ll help give you some practice and increase your confidence. Next time, do something else.

AShipInTheNight · 22/09/2021 23:56

Hi all,

and many thanks for the feedback. Please, everything I say come with the best intentions, but it was just a brain dump -- probably not as coherent as it should have been, and I'm sure I could have used better words and phrases in many cases. Raven, no, not a troll; there are probably trolls among my ancestors, but I'm sure I'm at least 99% human. Smile

In a nutshell, I'm in a bit of a mess, and I'm still piecing myself back together after my girlfriend's death. Yes, it's many years ago, but I took it very badly (job, alcohol, health), and it's in that context ("older", "single") a Google search landed me here. The last time I dated anybody I was 40, and now I'm 61 and find myself in unknown territory, and I can totally relate to what the OP (hi Sword) feels. Not in terms of being out and about, but in terms of where most people cut the upper age range on dating sites, which is 60. I too am invisible, in that context.

So, last night I had some time to spare, and just started scribbling. This morning I thought "forget it", but during my lunch break I read it through and figured it wasn't all that bad, so I posted.

Sword, I've been working on contract for many years, generally limited to 3-12 months, on (more or less) specialist projects. Getting a new contract takes effort every time. Scores of contractors will bombard recruiters with their CVs for a particular job, and I read somewhere that a recruiter will spend on average seven seconds when first seeing a CV; it then goes in the bin, or to the next stage. What I have to do is to stand out during those seven seconds -- present the recruiter with something that causes a brief hesitation, and a little light to come on.

You have to do the same. Several other posters have alluded to this, and so did I. I then started rambling on about maintaining a relationship, but that's really just the continuation of what you have to do to get there in the first place. Just like I have to catch the attention of a recruiter, so you have to catch the attention of potential suitors. Yes, it sounds like a meat market, but I can't change that, and we are after all undeniably physical beings: attraction matters. Great personality and character will work wonders to sustain a relationship, but they're not going to light anybody's fire in the first place. You have to cause that spark, that brief interrupt when somebody will stop in their tracks and go "Ohhh ... Hi!"

Some people are lucky enough to come with some free wow factors (young, fit, tall, whatever), but that isn't really that important. As I suggested in my note, by far most people will have a hand that has plenty of potential, it's just that a few lucky ones will have an ace or two.

You probably don't have to do much. We men are simple in that respect, and it's dead easy to catch our attention, but you have to cross the threshold: it happens, or it doesn't. As many other posters have suggested, a smart haircut and/or a bolder outfit may do the trick, and let me add a little sharper makeup to that. It really is that simple: you have to light that fire, and then keep it burning. There's no substitute as long as we are in human form, so to speak. Nobody's going to chat up Hyacinth Bucket.

Is this wrong? I don't think so. I want to be the best I can for my partner, and I want her to feel butterflies in her stomach whenever she thinks of me; and equally, I want to feel butterflies when I think of her. My girlfriend and I did that for 12 years.

Take care, Sword, and I sincerely hope you find your prince charming.

Toydog · 23/09/2021 01:05

@AShipInTheNight
Are you paying ANY attention to the fact that plenty of women here don’t want the low quality of man that is available
On the one hand you seek to ‘ educate us ‘ that it’s a myth that men’s emotions are stunted abd crude and then you go on to tell us men are like dogs
I’ll give you points for humour
Men like excitement huh, boys like to climb trees
Omg do you have daughter . Most girls , including myself could outclimb any of the boys
Guess what your gender stereotypes have been proven wrong over and over .
Just pure silliness - are you sure you were born 61 yrs ago and not 161 yes ago
Many of us are close in age to you and speak from ample experience
We are here telling our Personal experiences abd you’re here trying to speak on behalf of all men and ‘educate ‘ us on something from which yoh also have ONLY a your personal experiences to go on. Big differences to posting personal experience like the women here
So unless you are prepared to post your extensive and up to date qualifications on human behaviour , socialisation , gender issues etc then go away
Ps as for men being loyal like dogs … I’ll take a Labrador anyway . You really need to spend some time looking at the stats of men who cheat on women who they are completely being treated like damn kings by ( as you say ) . Most admit they are completely happy with the woman and want to stay with her , they just want more and more and more . Cheating, prostitutes, webcam girls , the list goes on and on
So I think you need to think VERY hard before telling women men would be loyal if women treated them ‘better ‘ wtah

Toydog · 23/09/2021 01:16

@AShipInTheNight

Hi *@EccentricaGalumbits* (it pains me to write that, but never mind),

why the sceptical face? I'm not pretending to present any universal truth, these are simply my own feelings in a condensed form.

Take care.

You say that but your first novella claims to hold the ‘truth ‘ and REPEATEDLY states Men like ….. Men like ….. Men like ….. You even start off by putting us on notice that what we are about to read is ‘laced with truth ‘

‘ Either way, I'm not trying to present a balanced case, I'm simply trying to explain why men can easily feel overlooked and uncared for, but at the same time I'm not trying to score any cheap points or fuel an argument. Horse's mouth, straight from the liver, loaded with generalisations but laced with truth.’