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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Be honest. If a man expected you...

871 replies

AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit · 31/08/2021 16:25

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

OP posts:
Comedycook · 03/09/2021 12:31

Does that mean you're expected to pay your way despite the fact you earn less?

Howshouldibehave · 03/09/2021 12:35

I like rules and I’m not giving up the one that the inviter pays, so someone please just give me a coherent list

If a friend suggests you go out for dinner, do you think they should pay?

VulvaTeeth · 03/09/2021 12:47

I earn almost twice what my husband does. Within the next few years, there's a possibility for me to increase my salary quite a lot, whereas it's doubtful that my husband will make much more than he is now as there aren't direct opportunities for career progression.

This is reflected in how much we paid towards our mortgage and utility bills etc (wage disparity was less when we first bought the house so we've adjusted it over the years) but not really in things like days out or going out for meals where, unless one of us is treating the other (for a birthday, say), we just split it.

idontknowwhyiamasking · 03/09/2021 12:51

[quote FTEngineerM]@AhNowTed you couldn’t possibly lead a team of men, it’s not possible, please retreat into the safe submissive inferior role.

@Itsnotover you are correct, I have well almost, I will in a week or so two sons. My mentality hasn’t changed though, since of course the last ‘first date’ I had was with their father a long time ago. Actually that reminds me, I was and still am incredibly stubborn and head strong, it’s something he finds attractive in a woman and why were a good match. We earned the same when we met (net), now he earns 2.5 times (gross) what I do actually I’m on mat leave so it’s closer to 10 times at the minute but the dynamic hasn’t changed one iota.

I think we’re getting of topic a bit, the question is explicitly about first dates, not when you’re ‘in love’ that comes way after.

It’s interesting to hear so many with ‘small delicate woman’ views yet also complaining about the inequalities. I have never acted like the ‘small delicate woman’ and I’ve never been treated as one, I don’t think those things aren’t connected but I agree a sample size of 1 isn’t great data. I don’t think someone would be interested in me if they were the dominant type, they would and have found me incredibly frustrating.

Why have you got the impression I am being pressured by society @dontwantausername ? Sometimes I choose where to go, sometimes I don’t, since we’re only talking about first dates then I think it’s about equal at the moment in whether I chose or not. I only ever accepted if it were somewhere familiar and safe. I don’t like the idea that women just exist and do as men say, which is what you’re describing. Me and all the women in my family are quite happy doing as we please, not one relies on a man. They are free to leave, they are free to stay, there is no violence, there is no mental abuse. They have funds available because they work, the men they spend time with or choose to marry are all just because they enjoy their company. Not because they’re incapable of managing life themselves (essentially what I see when I read what you say about life being easier when you don’t have to decide where to eat and how you’re going to pay for it).

Sex without commitment, great if you don’t want commitment. I don’t see the problem here?

@Wrapitupgood I agree with you about the wealth imbalance and therefore who pays. If I’d like to eat at a nice restaurant and my friend says they can’t afford that, I would offer to cover their bill so that we could enjoy that place/time. I extend that to partners too, but not first dates, which we’re discussing here. They are the same in return.

@idontknowwhyiamasking what happens if someone finds men sexually attractive? Do we live a life without sex?[/quote]
Yes.

SleepingStandingUp · 03/09/2021 13:03

Sorry @purpledaisies that was a rule for whomever was asking for one.

Rule is asker pays but you have to do your share of asking

SleepingStandingUp · 03/09/2021 13:04

@Howshouldibehave

I like rules and I’m not giving up the one that the inviter pays, so someone please just give me a coherent list

If a friend suggests you go out for dinner, do you think they should pay?

You know some on MN would right?
VulvaTeeth · 03/09/2021 13:14

@idontknowwhyiamasking

I don’t date men, because i believe that only contributes to the patriarchy. I don’t think we can (girls and women) ever truly be free if women continue to date, marry, have sex, take men’s lastnames or birth more children.

Paying or not paying on first date has fuck all to do with equality.
I doesn’t change anything.
Men won’t treat you better or worse because of it.

I admire the strength of your convictions but- apart from the fact that there aren't going to be any women or girls to enjoy their emancipation if we stop giving birth altogether- what's a more likely outcome.
  1. That the entirety of women at liberty to choose, reject men in a sexual or romantic context altogether and live happily, free from the legal contract of marriage and any of the negative attachments to having a sexual relationship with a man? (Still not sure how reproduction is meant to work?)

Or

  1. A small minority of understandably fed up women distance themselves from men in a romantic or sexual context and the majority of women (younger women especially), who, for reasons of sexual attraction, wanting a family, or actually quite liking most of the men they no hurry to distance themselves from it and move into even stronger proponents of "choice feminism" and unwittingly make themselves more vulnerable to men?
VulvaTeeth · 03/09/2021 13:22

Just for clarity- I'm not suggesting that your form of separatism would be to blame for younger women moving more towards liberal feminism, just that it's a more likely outcome than millions of young heterosexual women remaining celibate for the rest of their lives.

However, I imagine that there are probably a lot of older women who, possibly being divorced or widowed, are happy to spend their lives without the romantic company of men. If my husband died tomorrow, I doubt I'd get back into the dating game.
Anyway, all the more power to you.

idontknowwhyiamasking · 03/09/2021 13:50

I don’t think there is any telling to any other women what to do when it comes to men.
Well, vast majority of women,of any age, still has partnership with a man high on a pedastal and their self-worth is highly wrapped around to man wanting to stick their dick in them.
Seriously, it’s not a compliment, they fuck pretty much anything.
But with thisw two, we’re not gonna run out of people and there will always be next generations of women making the same mistake.
And thinking men have evolved.

There is a reason why society values (hetero) relationships so high and shame single women.

I’m not old, so i get it.
It is lonely.
I have dreams about loving relationships, but i don’t believe those exists.
And like i said, it would just be win for patriarchy.
Does my way going about make sense.
Well, to me: yes and noGrin!
I mean it’s isolating, can’t talk to anyone about my views irl, everybody else just goes and collect social status symbols and i’m seen less than...
But it’s important and valuable to me to know i’m not contibuting to the problem.
So the cycle maybe very small, but it will end with me.
I have pretty high libido, i deal with it myself.

Relationship, at the place where we are now, cannot be equal between man and woman.
This thread wouldn’t exist if we had true equality.
This question wouldn’t be asked.
There wouldn't be women (from any sides) being quite nasty to other women for telling their pov.

But it is a lot to ask, i know, i feel it, i live it.
It’s not easy.
I have wondered many times if it would be easier to just pretend everything is just fine and be like ”everyone else”.

We’re humans, we want to belong.
Be accepted.

Wrapitupgood · 03/09/2021 17:30

@idontknowwhyiamasking - Can you describe what a relationship that is equal between a man and a woman, in your view, would look like? Even if it is purely theoretical and you don't believe it's possible in reality.

AhNowTed · 03/09/2021 18:01

@idontknowwhyiamasking

"Well, vast majority of women,of any age, still has partnership with a man high on a pedastal and their self-worth is highly wrapped around to man wanting to stick their dick in them."

I don't believe this is the vast majority at all.

"Seriously, it’s not a compliment, they fuck pretty much anything."

*Again, not in my experience.
*
"But with thisw two, we’re not gonna run out of people and there will always be next generations of women making the same mistake."

*Given the many threads on here with women trapped in unhealthy relationships I would agree with you on this point. But again it's not the majority.

Your posts are quite disturbing, and I mean this kindly but you must have had some pretty shit relationships to hold this view.*

AhNowTed · 03/09/2021 18:02

Bold fail, FFS.

backtolifebacktoreality · 03/09/2021 18:05

I always want to pay my own way.

However, it would put me off if a man expected/tried to split the bill on the first date.

I'd like him to offer to pay but then I'd offer to split or pay the next time!

AhNowTed · 03/09/2021 18:16

@backtolifebacktoreality

I always want to pay my own way.

However, it would put me off if a man expected/tried to split the bill on the first date.

I'd like him to offer to pay but then I'd offer to split or pay the next time!

Can you explain why that is, without using the words it's "nice, gentlemanly, he should want to treat me, and/or impress me".

Honestly I don't get it.

It's just a date.

AhNowTed · 03/09/2021 18:16

@backtolifebacktoreality

I always want to pay my own way.

However, it would put me off if a man expected/tried to split the bill on the first date.

I'd like him to offer to pay but then I'd offer to split or pay the next time!

Can you explain why that is, without using the words it's "nice, gentlemanly, he should want to treat me, and/or impress me".

Honestly I don't get it.

It's just a date.

idontknowwhyiamasking · 03/09/2021 18:30

[quote AhNowTed]@idontknowwhyiamasking

"Well, vast majority of women,of any age, still has partnership with a man high on a pedastal and their self-worth is highly wrapped around to man wanting to stick their dick in them."

I don't believe this is the vast majority at all.

"Seriously, it’s not a compliment, they fuck pretty much anything."

*Again, not in my experience.
*
"But with thisw two, we’re not gonna run out of people and there will always be next generations of women making the same mistake."

*Given the many threads on here with women trapped in unhealthy relationships I would agree with you on this point. But again it's not the majority.

Your posts are quite disturbing, and I mean this kindly but you must have had some pretty shit relationships to hold this view.*[/quote]
First thing i wrote was i don’t date men.
Never have.
For the reasons i said.
I’m sorry if you find them disturbing, but all i can say is c’mon, look at the state of things!

Indoctro · 03/09/2021 18:39

Definitely I'd think he was a tight arse personally

AhNowTed · 03/09/2021 22:48

@Indoctro

Definitely I'd think he was a tight arse personally

Why?

Why are you not the tight arse?

Wrapitupgood · 03/09/2021 23:12

Why are you not the tight arse?

844 posts and there's still not an answer to that question.

SleepingStandingUp · 04/09/2021 00:07

@Wrapitupgood

Why are you not the tight arse?

844 posts and there's still not an answer to that question.

Nooo i know this.

Because women should be wooed and worshipped and impressed because
a. Vagina.
b. Sexual inequality will never be resolved so recompense

SleepingStandingUp · 04/09/2021 00:09

First thing i wrote was i don’t date men date or not, I'd agree with Ted on the assumption that you must have had some shit relationships with men, even if they were none romantic. And possibly women too given how little respect you have for us all just begging for a penis to be pushed inside us to validate our life.

How do lesbian's get validation? Or are they ab evolution on stupid hetero women?

idontknowwhyiamasking · 04/09/2021 05:35

@SleepingStandingUp

First thing i wrote was i don’t date men date or not, I'd agree with Ted on the assumption that you must have had some shit relationships with men, even if they were none romantic. And possibly women too given how little respect you have for us all just begging for a penis to be pushed inside us to validate our life.

How do lesbian's get validation? Or are they ab evolution on stupid hetero women?

Once again, i said: parnership with a man.
FTEngineerM · 04/09/2021 07:34

@Wrapitupgood

Why are you not the tight arse?

844 posts and there's still not an answer to that question.

Because they have a vaginas Literally no other reason.

@Comedycook depends what you mean by ‘pay my way’?

Comedycook · 04/09/2021 08:31

Did you tag me by accident @FTEngineerM

FTEngineerM · 04/09/2021 08:34

@Comedycook

Does that mean you're expected to pay your way despite the fact you earn less?
No, I assumed you meant me since you quoted me previously?

My apologies if you didn’t mean me.