Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

@Itsnotover

A man assuming that a woman will pay HER HALF of the bill is "tight with money

If a guy really likes you he will want to pay. He will want to make a good impression. That is not the same thing as expecting the man to pay for everything, now and forever more.

So surely if a woman really likes me, she would want to pay, and make a good impression?

If not, why not?

@Journeyofthedragons

AhNowTed
I would honestly be steering my son away from a lot of entitled "the-man-pays" posters on this thread.

It's fucking pathetic.

"Maybe some mothers would like to see their son as the more dominant (not physically) partner in a relationship."

By "dominant" you mean he pays?

I mean let's just call a spade a spade here.

Because Wrap, as i understand it, you're superior to me so you owe me. I can ever hope for equality so you should buy me dinner. Also it'll make you feel like a man and will help your masculine energy flow and then my feminine energy will flow as i laugh at your unfunny jokes and sit pretty in my new dress i brought especially for tonight. And you'll prove I'm special and you hope to have meaningful congress with me rather than be being some woman you basically view as a mate but fuck because you can

By "dominant" you mean he pays? I think he has to pick the restaurant too. Maybe order for her as well and take her wine glass away when he thinks she's deunk enough

But why do men/ boys have to be the one to ask someone out? It makes no sense.

My son asked me the same thing when he was 14 when listening to his sister moaning about a boy she liked not being in touch with her after a party. Why's all the pressure on the male to put himself out there and be the one to ask. That's not easy - why are we putting that pressure on boys/men? It's not fair.

@SleepingStandingUp

By "dominant" you mean he pays? I think he has to pick the restaurant too. Maybe order for her as well and take her wine glass away when he thinks she's deunk enough

Don Draper style 😉

So Bouledeneige so they feel manly and all dominate and stuff. Yeah grrr i booked a restaurant, look how mightily i will one day wield my penis at you.

Its just socialisation. Men did it initially cos it'd be improper for a little lady to be so bold, and now it's intrenched in love stories across all media types. So girls watch it being modelled out in front of them every day.

Tell your daughter she can only moan to you when she's messaged him and got bo reply.

Sorry Journey, i had to google him

The person who invites someone to dinner is supposed to pay. If he asked you out he should pay, and vice versa. If it is a mutual arrangement between friends you generally take turns to pick up the bill, discreetly and without making a big deal of it.

To posters who think the man should pay as some kind of blanket adjustment to compensate for the pay gap -

Do you always pay for your friends that earn less than you?

@Bouledeneige

But why do men/ boys have to be the one to ask someone out? It makes no sense.

My son asked me the same thing when he was 14 when listening to his sister moaning about a boy she liked not being in touch with her after a party. Why's all the pressure on the male to put himself out there and be the one to ask. That's not easy - why are we putting that pressure on boys/men? It's not fair.

If you are in the UK then women are perfectly capable of asking men out. 😂 Plus all of the dating apps etc, anybody can initiate a date!

@AhNowTed

To posters who think the man should pay as some kind of blanket adjustment to compensate for the pay gap -

Do you always pay for your friends that earn less than you?

Madness isn't it? The way to close the pay gap is to stop accepting that women should do the majority of childcare, to stop socialising girls into the idea that they should do this and that they are suited only to lower paid professional and to prosecute all of the employers who don't have fair pay/ promotion/ recruitment practices. Bit weird to connect the paygap to dating.

Adjusting expectations of who pays according to people's financial circumstances makes sense, when the difference in those circumstances is marked, to do with clear socio-economic position and able to be acted upon with embarrassing anyone. Eg when I go out for dinner with my grown up children, who are just starting out and still working low paid jobs, I always pay. I sometimes find myself in mixed groups of employed people and a few students, and if the bill breaks down to about £20 each I'll chuck in 30, as will a few others, to cover the students. No biggie, but none of this has anything to do with gender.

Applying that to men and women as overall groups doesn't make a lot of sense as the gender pay gap, though it still exists, is not that large, and more importantly it's no guide whatsoever the circumstances of particular individuals. Plenty of women on these first dates will be earning more than the men. I'd guess in most cases they're going to be in the same ballpark as each other (ie both working professionals, or young/students etc.) just by virtue of having enough in common to want to go on a date in the first place.

And noone's going to want to discuss their earning situation with some random from PoF in enough detail to work out whether there's a gap to be addressed.

No. That's what I expect.

Wouldn't be happy (or going for a second date) if he insisted on paying.

I must admit that when I was younger I was always the one that chased/made the first move/asked the bloke out etc. And they didn't tend to seem impressed with it, they just took what was offered them on a plate and that was pretty much it.

If he expected to split the bill, I'd think he wasn't that keen on me. I think the person issuing the invitation should normally treat the other. If I liked him, I'd invite him on the second date and pay the entire bill for that.

@Bouledeneige

But why do men/ boys have to be the one to ask someone out? It makes no sense.

My son asked me the same thing when he was 14 when listening to his sister moaning about a boy she liked not being in touch with her after a party. Why's all the pressure on the male to put himself out there and be the one to ask. That's not easy - why are we putting that pressure on boys/men? It's not fair.

It makes perfect sense men take the lead in relationships. This is how they proposed etc... Women are responsible for the pace of the relationship. It's in women's interest to slow this down and take longer to know a man, sleep with him, move in, ultimately having more control and possibly better waiting for more commitment.

The problem now is due to this equality and sexual revolution, the parts that tend to benefit men e.g sex and planning wife with no commitment are more accelerated in a relationship than they were years ago, the part which men aren't always keen on decline e.g marriage,paying for dates, commitment before sex....

It makes perfect sense men take the lead in relationships.

Based on what?

No. I hate this whole thing that the male is expected to pay. I'm very happy to pay my way.

@PurpleDaisies

It makes perfect sense men take the lead in relationships.

Based on what?

Hang on, so I'm supposed to work all day running a team, and then come home and play the little woman so he can "take the lead", Hahaha!

Hang on, so I'm supposed to work all day running a team, and then come home and play the little woman so he can "take the lead", Hahaha!

You lead a team? As a woman?

Hang on, so I'm supposed to work all day running a team, and then come home and play the little woman so he can "take the lead", Hahaha! Gosh when do you find the time to wash his socks, darn his hankies and cook his dinner?

@PurpleDaisies

Hang on, so I'm supposed to work all day running a team, and then come home and play the little woman so he can "take the lead", Hahaha!

You lead a team? As a woman?

Of men 😱

It doesn't make sense to me that it seems to be being suggested that women deferring to, and being dependent on men, is a good thing.

It's not coincidental that abusive relationships tend to step up the abuse on big life events, like having children.

I really don't think enforcing/encouraging gender stereotypes and relationship with power dynamics where the man is the leader/dominant party in a relationship is a good thing. As they say, power corrupts.

It makes perfect sense men take the lead in relationships

Why?