Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

Yeah it would put me off

Feminine energy is not about being an air head with eyelashes. It's the vibes you're giving off. I suppose it's more being receptive and giving more relaxed submissive vibes its a date, not a play. We can just be ourselves, it doesn't mean you are submissive you're just allowing them to take on the role of a man what? They are a man. and to see how they perform they're kind of auditioning after all it's so weird to view a date as an audition rather than a relationship that grows progressively. so you sit back and receive, compliments, good manners, respectful affection so they recite the lines they've used on the women before.....and them organising the date and paying i would never let a man organise the first date is we're talking OLD etc. You always pick somewhere you know, feel comfortable, and know how to get away from.

Honestly you make it all such hard work.

@Itsnotover

I don't need a man to flash his wallet to make a good impression. Sense of humour, connection, similar political leanings etc.

He could have that with any number of people 🤷🏻‍♀️

He could buy dinner for any number of people 🤷‍♀️

@Itsnotover

I don't need a man to flash his wallet to make a good impression. Sense of humour, connection, similar political leanings etc.

He could have that with any number of people 🤷🏻‍♀️

But that's fine, because that's just what gets you from date 1 to 2. He could flash his wallet at any number of people. I have male friends who will pay for me of we go out to dinner. It isn't sexual. What gets you from date 2 to 3 is some kind of spark, a sexual connection. Two things stuck out about date 1. He sensibly ordered a large not medium glass of wine after an awkward first part. And a funny discussion about pigeons. Not who paid for what

The problem is that there is this Emporer's New Clothes situation where so many women feel they HAVE to conform to this idea that men and women are equal in all things. They have convinced themselves that this is true.

Even though the only people that this belief benefits is men because it's not true.

I bet some of your dates are a barrel of laughs ... sounds more like a job interview than a romantic encounter, where you endlessly need to re-enforce the fact that you're equal partners and attraction and flirting is second to the most important fact that you're both entirely equal in every possible sense

It isn't even about showing him I'm his equal vs his inferior. It's just that being able to pay for our Starbucks isn't that impressive. Him being able to choose a restaurant and pay for a meal isn't that impressive.

@Comedycook

I bet some of your dates are a barrel of laughs ... sounds more like a job interview than a romantic encounter, where you endlessly need to re-enforce the fact that you're equal partners and attraction and flirting is second to the most important fact that you're both entirely equal in every possible sense

Or it's just too people spending time together and seeing if they enjoy each others company rather than thinking ohh am i playing my tole well, laughing at his jokes enough, do i look pretty enough, am i playing my role as woman as well as he's playing his role of man? Did he look sincere when he paid me those compliments. What does his choice of restaurant say about how he values me as a woman? If my feminine energy whooshing enough? Does his masculine energy boom enough?

I'd offer to pay half of course but I'd think it a nice thing to do if he offered to pay.

@SleepingStandingUp

Maybe I'm alone in this but it's the very littlest of things that can suddenly give me the ick in the early stages.

@Comedycook

I bet some of your dates are a barrel of laughs ... sounds more like a job interview than a romantic encounter, where you endlessly need to re-enforce the fact that you're equal partners and attraction and flirting is second to the most important fact that you're both entirely equal in every possible sense

I don’t need to demonstrate my equality. I would, however, need to put an awful lot of effort into projecting a submissive ‘feminine energy’. But hey, I’m guessing you’d think that was great fun, right?

I bet some of your dates are a barrel of laughs confused... sounds more like a job interview than a romantic encounter, where you endlessly need to re-enforce the fact that you're equal partners and attraction and flirting is second to the most important fact that you're both entirely equal in every possible sense
Yeah... We aren't the ones describing our dates as auditions. Or trying to project "feminine energy". Or assuring our partner in his role as a "man", something which, unless you're dating a drag king, makes no sense. That sounds reeeeaaal fun.

I am old fashioned and would like the man to get the bill. I would then say on the condition I will get the next one

@Itsnotover

The problem is that there is this Emporer's New Clothes situation where so many women feel they HAVE to conform to this idea that men and women are equal in all things. They have convinced themselves that this is true.

Even though the only people that this belief benefits is men because it's not true.

As long as you think like that it will never be true for you.

@ufucoffee

I'd offer to pay half of course but I'd think it a nice thing to do if he offered to pay.

Why?

Just throw down your half.

Honestly what is the problem!

@Itsnotover I haven’t said whether I think one is superior or not, that came from you. I simply stated, in our house at least, childcare is 50/50. It seems to have touched a nerve. I don’t understand why though if you’re happy that your man paid for your first date and ‘wooed’ you, and that is the dynamic you have and are comfortable with.

@dontwantausername thank you for the explanation, I now see why I’m struggling to understand your viewpoint. I don’t want to be submissive, especially with a stranger, it’s IMO creates a dangerous dynamic.

What’s interesting, at least to me, is there are people complaining of domestic violence/childcare imbalances/pay imbalances but on the same script arguing for the ‘dating dance’ of pretending a man is masculine because he has a fat wallet and a woman is feminine because she’s submissive.

I wonder if those decision we make, the small ones, like who pays for lunch on a first date all adds up to create the dynamic and sets the scene for what’s allowed.

Thinking I'm a grown up who will pay for my own meal, doesn't mean there won't be mutual emotional support and romantic gestures in the relationship in other ways. The whole thing of being on a date is romantic anyway, unless it's with someone 100% minging.

where you endlessly need to re-enforce the fact that you're equal partners

You could endlessly look after the children, earn less money, be more at risk of violence, be cheated on.. what ever else has been mentioned on the thread 🙂

Benevolent sexism.

Seriously ladies, wake the fuck up.

www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2020/02/12/who-should-pay-for-dates-how-chivalry-contributes-to-the-gender-pay-gap/

[quote Itsnotover]@SleepingStandingUp

Maybe I'm alone in this but it's the very littlest of things that can suddenly give me the ick in the early stages.[/quote]
Of course. The pantomime of whooshing your feminine energy so his masculine energy booms and wants to buy you dinner is one of them

@FTEngineerM Let's just say I've changed my approach over the years.

What 'ought to be' isn't always so...

Of course. The pantomime of whooshing your feminine energy so his masculine energy booms and wants to buy you dinner is one of them

In your opinion. If you're a woman you're not really in a position to call that though are you?

And of course (some) men are going to say everything should be 50/50 because that only benefits them

I bought DH flowers today :)

He was very pleased.

How can people say that men and women aren't equal so they should foot the dinner bill. Logic?

Are women less intelligent or less capable than men? Really?

I've always earned more than all my partners from my XH to most boyfriends (except one I posted about earlier on this thread). I always paid my share. Should I have paid it all?

@NiceGerbil

I bought DH flowers today :)

He was very pleased.

I chose and booked a restaurant for us to go to. He's putting a brave face on it but I think his balls might have fallen off.