DP keeps hurting me (by accident - not domestic abuse)

[Rootvegseason]

I have an old injury. In fairness I acquired it long before I met DP, and for the most part it doesn’t bother me.

DP has a hobby and it massively exacerbates this injury. It leaves me in a lot of pain.

I’ve asked for us not to do it but he says he’ll be careful and it will be fine. It never bloody is fine!

How would you approach this … I feel like if this was a new relationship it might indicate we aren’t right for one another maybe but it’s not, we have a child. Not sure.

Maybe it's time for a chat about life with a growing family.
I'm sure it is his pride and joy but it's usefulness to you as a family is reaching an end.
Those with two seaters they adore end up giving them up when baby arrives.
Would he consider selling it and investing in a more modern van. Then you can have family time in it that you all enjoy.
Obviously it's not retro but maybe he could invest his enthusiasm for this somewhere else? Or kit out something more appropriate in 1960s style.
He has to decide where the experience of the vehicle or the experience with his family means more. It's not a nice choice but that's what being a family means.
If this is an absolute no go zone your problem is bigger than your pain

Do you have your own car op? Could you drive with your ds in that?

I get intermittent back pain and I refuse to do anything which might jolt or jar my back/send it into a spasm. So no trampolines, no fun fair rides, no heavy lifting and I’m going to chuck in the towel on skiing.

It sounds like you need to put some clear boundaries in place as your DH is not getting it.

@BabylonDreams

Effectively, they're either sitting side on to the front on a long wooden box bolted to the side of the van, possibly with some old foam as a 'cushion/bed' with a child either sitting unsecured on the bench with her or in a car seat dumped on the floor or they've got two old school minibus type seats with at most a lap belt attached precariously to a likely rotten and rusted floor pan.

Appreciate not the point of the thread but is this legal? @NeverDropYourMoonCup

Not illegal as such, because nothing has been brought in to address older vehicles' safety. BUT if somebody were to get hurt and the Police knew about it, it's possible they could fall foul of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (section 100) where it says that 'the manner in which any passengers are carried in or on such vehicle or trailer, and the weight, distribution, packing and adjustment of the load of such vehicle or trailer shall at all times be such, that no danger is caused or is likely to be caused to any person in or on the vehicle or trailer or on a road'. Especially if the driver were to be clearly driving like a dick because he thinks it's all good fun.

But that's why my ex went from just camper vans to buying a car once DD came along. And after we split up and he realised that he couldn't afford holiday accommodation as well as the vehicles, he got the front passenger seat replaced to meet modern safety requirements so that she was secure/safe in her car seat for their holidays.

@Rootvegseason

I think *@NoSquirrels* is right though about avoiding conflict. One huge issue is that DP is able to talk things around to sounding very reasonable, so for example we are ostensibly house hunting at the moment but I know full well in five years we’ll still be in our house because every single house we view has some reason he doesn’t like it, and I have tried going down the route of - well, nothing is perfect, why don’t we both have ‘must haves’ and ‘could haves’ and we have but he still talks and turns it all round.

I think the problem with the campervan is as I’ve said it’s a huge ‘lifestyle’ aspect so it isn’t, despite what posters are saying, as simple as sending him off with it alone, but I do need to be firmer about it.

oh this sounds kind of nasty what with that and the VW thing its starting to sound abusive.

[quote SamiReed1]**@Killahangilion* The OP is being "thrown about in the back" and seatbelts* are "completely irrelevant to the issue of comfort."? Are you serious? [/quote]
Presumably you haven't got a clue how an old 60's VW Van is fitted out? The old original Camper Vans weren't designed for the passengers to travel in the back. You're only meant to sit in the back when the vehicle is stationary.

I had seatbelts fitted to ours in the front but then I never travelled in the back. It would obviously be uncomfortable and unsafe. Probably illegal too.

Seatbelts won't significantly improve a ride when you're effectively sitting on a cushion on a wooden box on a metal floor. That's the crux of the matter.

The OP needs to sit in the front seat which is sprung, or stop travelling in the van altogether.

It’s very interesting that you are trying to find 101 different ways to say ‘no’ to your DP. Most people in healthy respectful relationships would have no difficulty is saying ‘erm, no, I’m not going in the VW, it’s a nightmare for my back’.

But somehow you can’t find it in yourself to do this and you actually climb back in the car, time and again. Is this something from your childhood? Maybe the inability to have healthy boundaries? Are you a people pleaser? Is this something to do with your current relationship? Does your DP make you feel like you’re walking on eggshells?

Most of the posters on here sympathise with your pain, but are very confused at your situation. This is possible something of your own making, or something that is seriously off in your relationship with your DP. Either way it really isn’t normal that you keep getting back in the car.

OP this isn't really about the van is it? Your relationship is already in trouble, and you know it but you're trying to hang on to it. that's fine because it matters to you, but you can't make it work on your own.

You say you don't want this to be 'an another thing'. But it is another thing. Or rather, it's part of the same thing. He doesn't see you as an equal. He doesn't respect you and always has to talk at you and make a show of doing something (eg the house) but actually doing nothing. So you give up.

None of us want you to be in pain. Some posters have been blunt and just said 'well don't get in it then', but that really is the only way to avoid it. Because your arse of a DH doesn't listen. From all your posts on this thread it seems clear that there is nothing you can say to him that will change him. It's his way or the highway (no pun intended). If you have to suffer excruciating pain to do what he wants in an attempt to keep the marriage together, it really isn't a relationship worth saving. Which may not be what you want to hear, but it's true. He doesn't give a rat's arse about you.

People are insisting say no, it’s as easy as that.

Sure. But as a couple of other posters have explained it isn’t really about ‘how do I say no’, it’s about how I move forward with this in my relationship.

There are some brilliant, sensitive responses. I hear the lady who’s partner has hay fever, the disabled poster and the one who can’t camp in particular.

But people just endlessly banging on about Say No as if I’ve been obnoxiously refusing to do this throughout the thread are being really annoying. It’s about managing the relationship - given that I’ve indicated this isn’t the only issue - when something that’s hugely important to him is something I can’t access.

By the way. Ds is not on the floor in a car seat!

I think we are all on your side, we don't want to see you continue to get hurt. It feels challenging because people are suggesting the problem is much easier to solve (by asking him to adapt the vehicle, drive more considerately or to take an additional vehicle, or stay at home) than you feel it is within the dynamics of your relationship.

It is a really concerning dynamic. Where did you learn that you shouldn't disappoint or inconvenience your partner incase he ends the relationship even if you are literally in pain and at risk of further injury?

It feels as if your self esteem is so low that you are scared he will end the relationship over you putting your health and comfort above your involvement in his hobby OR he is so controlling and scary or guilt inducing that you cannot raise this with him OR some combination of the two issues.

The bit about being flung around in the back seat with your son (how old, is he safely restrained?) It sounds like you are scared of him. Because the rest of us are thinking we'd tell him to slow down and never step foot in the vehicle again if he refused.

Trying to get to the bottom of whether he is callously uncaring about your health and safety or whether you just aren't confident enough to assert your needs.

Either way, talking things through with a counsellor or sensible empathetic friend might help.

If he is uncaring then you and your son are better off with the relationship ended. If the latter then you need help and support to realise that his love for you is not that fragile or fickle.

I had depression, low self esteem and high anxiety when I was younger and it meant I was passive and put my idea of what my husband wanted above my own. I worried about disappointing him if I wasn't as enthusiastic about his interests. I have become more confident over the years and realised that it is absolutely ok to have my own hobbies, opinions and needs. And I am much better at asserting them these days but probably still have a way to go.

"when something that’s hugely important to him is something I can’t access."

He should just be able to accept that you can't do it.

Hell, even if you just didn't want to then that should be acceptable to him.

If you are all genuinely on my side please stop with the comments about being a martyr and so on. I don’t know if people feel it’s some sort or tough luck but I’ll say assertively and firmly now I have no truck with that. It doesn’t work and can be harmful in the extreme. Usually all it does is make the person on the receiving end hate themselves.

I'm sorry you feel you're getting a hard time here, but there is some good advice here too. I understand about chronic pain because my DH suffers with back/scaitic pain, sometimes its difficult as a partner to understand exactly how bad it is but I try to remain sympathetic and I always consider his comfort if we're going out or travelling.

From your following comments its clear that the issue with his hobby is a symptom of your marital problems not the cause. I think you need to do some very painful and honest soul searching and then an honest and maybe scary conversation about resolving your issues or moving on.

I'm sorry OP it sounds like an unhappy situation.

I understand this OP. I think what we are saying is that we wouldn't want to proceed in a relationship with someone who showed this level of selfish and disrespectful behaviour. He doesn't care if you are in pain or physically hurt.

How low is your bar set?

But people just endlessly banging on about Say No as if I’ve been obnoxiously refusing to do this throughout the thread are being really annoying. It’s about managing the relationship - given that I’ve indicated this isn’t the only issue - when something that’s hugely important to him is something I can’t access.

I think the difficult is that you being in pain should take priority over him wanting you to join him on his hobby. In a healthy, loving relationship it wouldn't need to be an issue - it would be a 'that's a shame but obviously I don't want you to be in pain so don't worry!' and he'd do it without you or you would all find something you can do together.

Because that's clearly not the case but it's not clear what the other issues are (other than his approach to moving / not moving which makes him sound like a bully who is selfish) it's hard for people to advise.

I couldn't be with someone who prioritised a hobby over me being in pain. It feels like your partner being like that about this issue is indicative of how he approaches the relationship in general - is that fair? That he always gets the final say, bulldozes / stonewalls until you give in for an easy life etc?

You don't have to be with someone like that, it must be horrible

There’s some brilliant advice. Of which ‘no’ ‘don’t be a martyr’ and ‘ ’ is manifestly NOT.

I think I have not been clear enough about how uncomfortable it is for me but DP is not the best listener at the best of times. What prompted me to write this thread was dp going over a small bridge and feeling like my spine was going to come out of my neck and asking if we could go home and him making ‘suggestions.’

So I should have said ‘NO, you have really hurt me and I am in a lot of pain and I want to go home.’

So I shall do that in future but it does hurt a bit that he doesn’t seem to get it.

@Rootvegseason

People are insisting say no, it’s as easy as that.

Sure. But as a couple of other posters have explained it isn’t really about ‘how do I say no’, it’s about how I move forward with this in my relationship.

There are some brilliant, sensitive responses. I hear the lady who’s partner has hay fever, the disabled poster and the one who can’t camp in particular.

But people just endlessly banging on about Say No as if I’ve been obnoxiously refusing to do this throughout the thread are being really annoying. It’s about managing the relationship - given that I’ve indicated this isn’t the only issue - when something that’s hugely important to him is something I can’t access.

By the way. Ds is not on the floor in a car seat!

I understand what you're saying OP.

I have a chronic pain condition and even though there's lots I can stop doing to alleviate the pain I begrudge doing it because I feel like I'm missing out.

Also, if you don't suffer from chronic pain it's really hard to explain how it feels. It's also the indignity of having to admit there's things you can't do that wouldn't even cross another's mind. It's a loss in some respects and I can completely understand you 'just not wanting to say no'.

I doubt that he doesn't get it-unless he thinks that you are lying.

I can't understand why you'd be willing to hoon around the countryside with your child in the back of a rickety vehicle that is driven badly. Never mind your bad back, who the hell would willingly do that? You're nothing but an audience to his awful driving - assert yourself and tell him to leave you out of it in future.

I doubt he thinks I’m lying but I think it’s more he thinks I’m exaggerating, or more likely, he genuinely thinks this time he’ll be super duper careful and won’t hit a - oh sorry, was that a pothole?

@Rootvegseason

There’s some brilliant advice. Of which ‘no’ ‘don’t be a martyr’ and ‘ ’ is manifestly NOT.

I think I have not been clear enough about how uncomfortable it is for me but DP is not the best listener at the best of times. What prompted me to write this thread was dp going over a small bridge and feeling like my spine was going to come out of my neck and asking if we could go home and him making ‘suggestions.’

So I should have said ‘NO, you have really hurt me and I am in a lot of pain and I want to go home.’

So I shall do that in future but it does hurt a bit that he doesn’t seem to get it.

But don't put all the onus on you to tell him in the 'right' way - it sounds like it wouldn't really matter what you say, he would carry on doing what he wants regardless. If a nice, normal partner heard their partner in pain they wouldn't need to be asked to go home, they would be suggesting it anyway because they wouldn't want their partner to be in pain. You sound nice and understanding. He sounds selfish and sometimes people like him listen just fine, they just don't really care what the other person has to say if it doesn't match up with their own preferences.

I would be nodding in agreement if it wasn't for the moving house issue and the "other issues in the relationship that need managing" IMO that is wrong! One adult in a relationship should not be needing to manage another one.

When I was a kid, my mum used to say, if it hurts, don't do it! I think you need to listen to my mum op.

Using statements of fact instead of questions is something that really helped me in this sort of situation.

So instead of 'can we go home?' say 'we need to go home.' Instead of 'is it ok if we don't do xyz today?' say 'I've decided I can't do xyz today.'

It's tough to adapt to when you find it hard to be very firm, but practice makes perfect.

And remember you're not being confrontational to just say what works for you and what doesn't. It's a conversation, between two adults who have full agency over their own actions. Not over each other's.

I think the struggle lots of posters are having OP is this:

What prompted me to write this thread was dp going over a small bridge and feeling like my spine was going to come out of my neck and asking if we could go home and him making ‘suggestions.’

So I should have said ‘NO, you have really hurt me and I am in a lot of pain and I want to go home.’

So why did you only "ask"? Why didn't you insist?

It's either because you lack assertiveness & that's a pattern of behaviour for you. Do you struggle to articulate your needs in other situations, for example at work maybe?

Or it's because of fear of the consequences from DH if you do insist. Same as, why It's his opinion that matters on the house search... do you censor what you say to avoid difficult conversations with him?

Either way he doesn't come out well here.

hmmm seems to be it's 'how do I make my dp care he's hurting me'. He really doesn't seem to care at all. He doesn't care he hurts you, he doesn't care that you want to move house.

You can mitigate the VW thing it with all the ideas people have suggested but in the long term, your dp will still put his feelings first.

In answer to your op - how would I approach the fact my dp puts himself first and ignores that he hurts me? With your other comments, personally I would make plans to leave.