Is it ok for my wife to have lunch with another unmarried man I do not know?

[cervera]

Trying not to go mad at the moment - we have been married for 30 years, like every marriage it has had its ups and downs, but I would say we have a good marriage, my wife said the same just the day. We have two grown up children both now happily married and moved out. I really love my wife, she is my rock, I think she is hot...late last year she met this other unmarried man (her friend called him Eye Candy!)...they volunteer together for a charity, she was his mentor and all was fine. After the mentorship ended, they met for coffee, to discuss the volunteering roll and at this point I was not even thinking any bad thoughts. Then there was another coffee and a long walk, it was not a secret, she was very open about it - but I then started to be unsure. They shared lots it seems, they had a report she said, she really liked his 'banter'. His name came into conversation often.

There were fairly frequent WhatsApp’s between them - then there was an evening drink suggested, which really started to worry me - but I did not want to be an arse and upset a new friendship which she seemed to value greatly. I know my wife was unsure about it – she joked she was going for a drink with ‘her lover’ and admitted it made her feel good. I thought it would be a quick glass of wine and not much more, but four hours later - I was then really getting concerned. She came home and immediately fell asleep (she is not a big drinker) but I wanted to talk to her and tell her I was feeling unhappy about this now. They had discussed lots it seems, including him telling her that his latest relationship had just finished – but my wife had shared some things about me, that I was not comfortable with.

I did not sleep that night, until she woke up and asked if I was OK. I then said NO and told her why, I was feeling left out, jealous, unsure for the first time in 30 years…would she like it if I was doing the same? She was shocked, I said “you are a beautiful looking woman’ why would he not be interested in you – it was a difficult conversation – she then, I thought understood how I felt, could see how upset I was and said she would stop it. Another week passed – she came home much later than I thought from volunteering – they had been out for another coffee. I must of looked strange and went quiet - she was mad at me for trying to ruin her friendship.

I backed off, thinking it was all me being paranoid (please tell me if I am) but I could not settle, work, sleep, do anything – it then blew up 48 hours later – I said I cannot handle this and she called him and told him – they better not meet again, as ?! (my name) does not like this. Eventually things calmed down – but on holiday the WhatsApp started again from him – including a message saying – “…have not been in touch much as ?! (my name) does not like it” – I am thinking WTF, you know I asked this to stop and you are still doing it. Even the WhatsApp messaged ended with a X…the content was nothing much other than “we are sharing a shift together soon, fancy lunch before?”.

Well the next lunch is 10 days away, I feel crap, cannot sleep, work is tough – but am I being paranoid, I am trying to be cool about – my wife has told me it is happening – I do not want to cause another eruption and say NO you cannot go – it is not my place to do that. She can see I am stressed, but this friendship seems more important than my feelings and emotions. She seems to think it is all fine, but I know men, it helps being one!!!

Maybe I am over thinking this? Insecure? I do not want other men telling me to go around and smack him, that’s for sure. But there is no one to talk to about this? Thoughts? Advice?

Everyone will have differing views and opinions on situations like these.
For me personally (as a woman), I wouldn't meet a member of the opposite sex in situations like your wife has mentioned. I would find it disrespectful to my husband regardless whether there are feelings from either party or not.
Meeting up in a group setting is fine, but I think putting yourself in a potentially tricky situation with a member of the opposite sex is a recipe for disaster.

@ILoveFlumps. I agree , with the exceptions being old long standing friends that you possibly both know- like old Uni friends or old colleagues etc and it’s clear and obvious to both parties there’s no romantic interest on either part .

Oh and clients if you are in business- I’ve had lots of those .

she has been disloyal to you by saying that you are the reason they can't see each other. You should be able to raise concerns. i did something similar with my DH. I told him i was uncomfortable with a friendship and he needed to step back from the relationship which he did by putting boundaries in place. I felt better about it all. They are still mates but it doesn't impact on our time so it's fine.

[quote Crikeyalmighty]@ILoveFlumps. I agree , with the exceptions being old long standing friends that you possibly both know- like old Uni friends or old colleagues etc and it’s clear and obvious to both parties there’s no romantic interest on either part .[/quote]
Absolutely this. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this!

Op is this OM younger than your wife ?

@ILoveFlumps. Sadly years ago I would have been the cool wife— but experience has I’m afraid made me far more sceptical. Have seen too many good long term relationships go south when one partner suddenly gets flattered /ego boost at a point they are vulnerable to attention from others, starts off as casual but then veers off course , no one can dictate what partners do but in reality most women I know that are older would certainly be questioning this- so why shouldn’t a guy!!

If my husband did this I would not tolerate it. Your wife is aware of the impact. She called the friend and told him but they've started it back up again.
Her marriage should be more important.

I wouldn't consider forging a new relationship with a man while married or attempt to forge a new relationship with a married man if I were single.

@cervera

What do you want think cervera based on all the opinions & advice you have got? How have things been since you first posted?

If it is not already an EA it's meeting her need for something lacking in your relationship. Have you done anything other than talk, freed up some time? Taken her to lunch? Send her messages? .....

I would not be happy if my husband was doing this. It seems like this friendship is blurring some very important boundaries.

I wouldn’t put my marriage in this situation. It’s a very slippery slope and affairs start on much less.

It depends, quite simply is there something going on?

I go for drinks with male ex colleagues, been to the cinema and gigs with my ex boss, he's married I was separated/divorced. I can have platonic relationships with men just like I can with women!

The fact she has a friend who is male I don't think is an issue as long as it's just friends

@cervera

Trying not to go mad at the moment - we have been married for 30 years, like every marriage it has had its ups and downs, but I would say we have a good marriage, my wife said the same just the day. We have two grown up children both now happily married and moved out. I really love my wife, she is my rock, I think she is hot...late last year she met this other unmarried man (her friend called him Eye Candy!)...they volunteer together for a charity, she was his mentor and all was fine. After the mentorship ended, they met for coffee, to discuss the volunteering roll and at this point I was not even thinking any bad thoughts. Then there was another coffee and a long walk, it was not a secret, she was very open about it - but I then started to be unsure. They shared lots it seems, they had a report she said, she really liked his 'banter'. His name came into conversation often.

There were fairly frequent WhatsApp’s between them - then there was an evening drink suggested, which really started to worry me - but I did not want to be an arse and upset a new friendship which she seemed to value greatly. I know my wife was unsure about it – she joked she was going for a drink with ‘her lover’ and admitted it made her feel good. I thought it would be a quick glass of wine and not much more, but four hours later - I was then really getting concerned. She came home and immediately fell asleep (she is not a big drinker) but I wanted to talk to her and tell her I was feeling unhappy about this now. They had discussed lots it seems, including him telling her that his latest relationship had just finished – but my wife had shared some things about me, that I was not comfortable with.

I did not sleep that night, until she woke up and asked if I was OK. I then said NO and told her why, I was feeling left out, jealous, unsure for the first time in 30 years…would she like it if I was doing the same? She was shocked, I said “you are a beautiful looking woman’ why would he not be interested in you – it was a difficult conversation – she then, I thought understood how I felt, could see how upset I was and said she would stop it. Another week passed – she came home much later than I thought from volunteering – they had been out for another coffee. I must of looked strange and went quiet - she was mad at me for trying to ruin her friendship.

I backed off, thinking it was all me being paranoid (please tell me if I am) but I could not settle, work, sleep, do anything – it then blew up 48 hours later – I said I cannot handle this and she called him and told him – they better not meet again, as ?! (my name) does not like this. Eventually things calmed down – but on holiday the WhatsApp started again from him – including a message saying – “…have not been in touch much as ?! (my name) does not like it” – I am thinking WTF, you know I asked this to stop and you are still doing it. Even the WhatsApp messaged ended with a X…the content was nothing much other than “we are sharing a shift together soon, fancy lunch before?”.

Well the next lunch is 10 days away, I feel crap, cannot sleep, work is tough – but am I being paranoid, I am trying to be cool about – my wife has told me it is happening – I do not want to cause another eruption and say NO you cannot go – it is not my place to do that. She can see I am stressed, but this friendship seems more important than my feelings and emotions. She seems to think it is all fine, but I know men, it helps being one!!!

Maybe I am over thinking this? Insecure? I do not want other men telling me to go around and smack him, that’s for sure. But there is no one to talk to about this? Thoughts? Advice?

Hey I totally get how you are feeling and really empathise with what you are going through. For me this would be very difficult. Probably a marriage breaker now as I feel that groups ok but when in couples it's too cosy. Your wife appears from what you have said to value her friend more than your feelings and that can't be right. Your post grabbed my attention as a couple of yrs ago my oh went to lunch in a nice restaurant that we had previously gone to. He lied and said working with other clients but had seen this ow day before in work capacity and they arranged a meet up day after when it wasn't his normal day for working together. She is a client of his. I never had a problem with female clients, group lunches etc but it was the lying/sneaky behaviour. Like you we have been together similar time. When I confronted him to cut along story short he decided he didn't want to be with me anymore. About a week later we sorted things but it was devastating and two years on I still don't get it. She is still a client of his but I now suffer with anxiety, depression, etc. We were best friends and he almost ruined that but now I am hyperviligant and worry all the time. My relationship is there but doesn't feel the same anymore. I was up at 5am today as don't sleep anymore and although to him he thinks things are ok with us I don't feel same inside. I love him loads as we have been together since we were young and done/been through so much together. Sometimes I feel I would be better off on my own now as have no trust. If anything else happened I have decided we are done no matter how hard it is. It's so difficult as I love him, we have a home together etc and it almost feels too difficult to uproot all that. I think one of the things I find difficult is my oh refers to that time as a argument. It wasn't a argument though. He said he wanted to end our marriage so more than a row which would normally last a few hours not a week of him definitely not wanting to be married anymore! I confronted him about where he was and he lied and I found out and then I was told negative things about his attraction to me and other hurtful things and he started planning to sort out finances etc. It was bizarre as 3 days before we had gone out for our wedding anniversary and he sent me a card saying how much he loved me and thanking me for everything I did for him. I wish I could turn back clock and feel way I used to but it's just not there. This lady is still a client so I just have to suck it up and hope they aren't doing things out of work situation but everytime he has her in calendar it eats me up. I sometimes wish that when he didn't want to be with me his choice that I hadn't stayed as now worry all the time. I feel second best, unattractive, my mojo happy go lucky personality not there. I feel I have got ptsd as I was blindsided and one day happy next day he was done with me but changed his mind a few days later. I still don't get how you treat someone you are supposed to love like that. He was my best friend and go to person but inside sometimes I really dislike him now and feel like I don't know him anymore. It's like the person I knew is gone. I am frozen as don't want to leave him but not really happy inside thinking about way he treated me back then. It wasn't good. He's nice now but he still has contact with that lady through work each week. They don't need contact but choose it still so my feelings aren't really a priority. I really feel for what you are going through as our situations are similar but not same. Your wife is definitely very friendly with this guy and it doesn't feel good for you in my opinion. Let everyone know how things are going.

Sounds like they're dating rather than just friends. Friendships aren't usually so intense - coffee, lunch, drinks, constant messaging and mentionitis. If you were a woman worried about your husband spending so much time with a new female friend - coffee, lunch, drinks, constant messaging and mentionitis - your responses would be pretty unanimous this is affair territory.

Whilst I'm an advocate of men and women being able to simply be friends, you're not ok with this particular relationship and I would have thought she would respect you rather than choosing this route. Or invite you along.

judgejudyrocks

Do you still have sex with your wife? If you have been neglecting her, this might be the consequences coming home to roost. Not saying that this is the case, but it's a genuine question.

Omfg!
Can you imagine someone saying this to a woman??????

I would say the same to a woman!!

So often, one person in a marriage takes sex off the table and just expects their partner to suck it up. Years pass and the rejected party gets their head turned by someone else, only for the non affectionate person to be shocked. Well, duh....if you neglect your spouse, don't be surprised if eventually they get sick of being celibate and start to find others attractive and /or move on.

I am not really sure what the etiquette of posting on here is, I asked a question and read lots - but since you asked @Perriwinkles - so many varying thoughts, opinions and pieces of advice on here...rather over whelming keeping up with it and processing them - but lovely of people to take their time to do it. Some of the comments are a bit harsh but hey hoy - that does not bother me

I kind of like the idea of meeting with them - but feel I have already been discussed by them, they have shared some stuff about me - which just feels weird and uncomfortable - seems super awkward thing to do. What are we going to talk about....Might suggest it.

A few people suggested I did the same, find a female friend and behave in the same way - seems a bit lame that.

Some suggest get a solicitor - thinking we are jumping the gun a little on that.

Will order the book Not Just Friends - but read it openly?

I really liked what @Dervel said:
• The friend has to be genuinely supportive/respectful of the marriage/relationship.
• Not to replace the spouse/partner as a go to for discussing problems.
• The friend in question had better not be harbouring romantic aspirations toward the taken person, and actually to entertain them if this is known is pretty shitty to the prospective friend quite honestly.
• Discretion is also key, some reasonable attempts to include the partner outside the friendship is good practice as avoiding doing constant “date like” activities.
The marriage has to take precedence over the friendship.

@Persephonegoddess asked if we do other things together - we do talk lots, train together in the mornings three times a week, walk, always eat together, spend time in our lovely garden, our best friends of 25 years+ are coming over tonight - (would love to ask then their opinion on this subject), we spend time with our kids and their partners (our new daughters), but we have our own interest as well - last few weekends have been back to back busy.

I did ask her out for breakfast last Sunday, but it got kicked backed to another time as she was tired, fair enough, it has been a busy time - just wondering if she is going to be tired this coming Wednesday, when their next lunch meeting is planned (I deliberately did not put date there).
So I am anxious, but I am not going to say anything - treat it as a plutonic relationship outwardly, but inwardly worried, let it unravel. Sleep is awful, why are things 10x worse at 2am in the morning?

The Mentionitis(who knew that was a word, until coming on here) has stopped for the time being - but think that is because I have been casual when his name comes up - but it will come up before Wednesday I imagine.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment.

And yes @judgejudyrocks we do

@cervera

I am not really sure what the etiquette of posting on here is, I asked a question and read lots - but since you asked *@Perriwinkles* - so many varying thoughts, opinions and pieces of advice on here...rather over whelming keeping up with it and processing them - but lovely of people to take their time to do it. Some of the comments are a bit harsh but hey hoy - that does not bother me

I kind of like the idea of meeting with them - but feel I have already been discussed by them, they have shared some stuff about me - which just feels weird and uncomfortable - seems super awkward thing to do. What are we going to talk about....Might suggest it.

A few people suggested I did the same, find a female friend and behave in the same way - seems a bit lame that.

Some suggest get a solicitor - thinking we are jumping the gun a little on that.

Will order the book Not Just Friends - but read it openly?

I really liked what @Dervel said:
• The friend has to be genuinely supportive/respectful of the marriage/relationship.
• Not to replace the spouse/partner as a go to for discussing problems.
• The friend in question had better not be harbouring romantic aspirations toward the taken person, and actually to entertain them if this is known is pretty shitty to the prospective friend quite honestly.
• Discretion is also key, some reasonable attempts to include the partner outside the friendship is good practice as avoiding doing constant “date like” activities.
The marriage has to take precedence over the friendship.

@Persephonegoddess asked if we do other things together - we do talk lots, train together in the mornings three times a week, walk, always eat together, spend time in our lovely garden, our best friends of 25 years+ are coming over tonight - (would love to ask then their opinion on this subject), we spend time with our kids and their partners (our new daughters), but we have our own interest as well - last few weekends have been back to back busy.

I did ask her out for breakfast last Sunday, but it got kicked backed to another time as she was tired, fair enough, it has been a busy time - just wondering if she is going to be tired this coming Wednesday, when their next lunch meeting is planned (I deliberately did not put date there).
So I am anxious, but I am not going to say anything - treat it as a plutonic relationship outwardly, but inwardly worried, let it unravel. Sleep is awful, why are things 10x worse at 2am in the morning?

The Mentionitis(who knew that was a word, until coming on here) has stopped for the time being - but think that is because I have been casual when his name comes up - but it will come up before Wednesday I imagine.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment.

And yes @judgejudyrocks we do

Arrange something nice for Wednesday morning for you and put in calendar. Don't mention to your wife unless she asks. Concentrate on yourself. Don't appear needy even if you feel that way inside. She doesn't mind does she

Also I do believe trusting your gut feeling when you have been together over 30 years. You know her so well and I think you are kidding yourself if you think there is no attraction here. This is very difficult for you because if you go on about this your wife will have excuses to say you are controlling and if you do nothing you are walked over.
Your tact of letting it unravel probably best as you haven't done either of above.
Always make sure you arrange nice things for yourself when they are meeting.
Don't say anything negative about this guy and be your usual nice self.
If there is an affair or one coming the easier going you appear outwardly will be best as that's when they will relax and slip up.
If she slips up marriage not worth saving as trust never returns and you have to decide can you live like that. Some people can.

Glad you got back to us cervera, I think you’re right to take what you need from this and ignore the rest.

It worries me that you feel so uncomfortable about what they have shared about your relationship with your wife. You should not feel like an outsider in your marriage.

‘Will order the book Not Just Friends - but read it openly?’

I’d read it openly. You’ve expressed concern around this friendship and it just shows you’re taking your concerns seriously. Tbh I’d hope that it would encourage her to pick it up, before she potentially goes (further) down a VERY DARK HOLE.

I was the cool wife that so many on here think they ‘should’ be, I REALLY wish I hadn’t been! If I had been clearer with my boundaries round opposite sex friends, I could potentially have prevented one of the worst periods of my and my family’s life.

I am so sorry about your lack of sleep and peace, I remember it well and it’s torturous.

@cervera

So I am anxious, but I am not going to say anything - treat it as a plutonic relationship outwardly, but inwardly worried, let it unravel.

I don't think you should be keeping all this to yourself. It's so bad for your mental health and your wife is your partner, someone you should be able to confide in. I think you need to sit her down and tell her that this one friendship is seriously affecting you and making you miserable.

I love my dh, I would hate for him to be tying himself in knots over something like this. I would want to reassure him and let him know how important his feelings are to me.

Tell her that you feel conflicted because you don't want to tell her what to do but also that you are devastated that she doesn't chose to prioritise her marriage and her lifelong partner. Ask her more about this man. What is it that makes this friendship different to any other. Ask her how she feels about your anxiety, does it matter to her or is she going to just brush it aside?

When we tell our partner that they are doing something that is distressing to us, they usually stop. I think you need to make her understand how important this matter is to you. You can tell her that you fear her leaving you if you want. You can be open and vulnerable.

If she doesn't seem to actually get it, you could ask to go for counselling together so that the counsellor can help you find a way to explain how her actions are affecting you.

Also, if you want to talk to someone in person Samaratins number is 111 123 any time day or night. You can email them too.

Finally, @judgejudyrocks their sex life is completely irrelevant. If she is unhappy in that respect she can say so, it doesn't give her the right to have an affair.

That number is 116 123 - sorry!

If it helps, I'll give you my experience @cervera

I was a decade younger than your wife, in a long marriage, happened to meet an unmarried man through a shared interest, we really hit it off - as people with exactly the same outlook on life. We had the same values, interests, sense of humour.

I admired him and respected him and we spent a little time together, talking, having coffee.

Then I realised that when I was with this man I gave zero thought to my husband - there was just so much to talk about with this other man because we shared an interest my husband was not at all interested in.

If this other man had been a woman it would have been the most wonderful friendship of my life. Because it was a man, I began to realise I was starting to have romantic thoughts about him. So I pulled away, out of respect for my marriage.

Your wife may or may not be in the position I was in, but it sounds to me from what you describe that either she has not yet come to the same realisation I came to, or, she has gone beyond the stage I reached, and that her desire to spend time with this man is more important than her marriage to you.

Which do you think it is?

@carol427camb. I think the other thing Carol is that conversation flows in a situation like this because it’s new and fresh , so it’s easier to feel a frisson— and that’s what feelings can develop from. There are an awful lot of affairs develop not necessarily from old established friends who know your history and stories etc, but from ‘new’ friends were there is lots of new chemistry and shared interests to be found

[quote WallaceinAnderland]@cervera

So I am anxious, but I am not going to say anything - treat it as a plutonic relationship outwardly, but inwardly worried, let it unravel.

I don't think you should be keeping all this to yourself. It's so bad for your mental health and your wife is your partner, someone you should be able to confide in. I think you need to sit her down and tell her that this one friendship is seriously affecting you and making you miserable.

I love my dh, I would hate for him to be tying himself in knots over something like this. I would want to reassure him and let him know how important his feelings are to me.

Tell her that you feel conflicted because you don't want to tell her what to do but also that you are devastated that she doesn't chose to prioritise her marriage and her lifelong partner. Ask her more about this man. What is it that makes this friendship different to any other. Ask her how she feels about your anxiety, does it matter to her or is she going to just brush it aside?

When we tell our partner that they are doing something that is distressing to us, they usually stop. I think you need to make her understand how important this matter is to you. You can tell her that you fear her leaving you if you want. You can be open and vulnerable.

If she doesn't seem to actually get it, you could ask to go for counselling together so that the counsellor can help you find a way to explain how her actions are affecting you.

Also, if you want to talk to someone in person Samaratins number is 111 123 any time day or night. You can email them too.

Finally, @judgejudyrocks their sex life is completely irrelevant. If she is unhappy in that respect she can say so, it doesn't give her the right to have an affair.[/quote]
What a thoughtful post @WallaceinAnderland - I feel like you have articulated it all so well. Thank you.