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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it ok for my wife to have lunch with another unmarried man I do not know?

205 replies

cervera · 10/08/2021 16:15

Trying not to go mad at the moment - we have been married for 30 years, like every marriage it has had its ups and downs, but I would say we have a good marriage, my wife said the same just the day. We have two grown up children both now happily married and moved out. I really love my wife, she is my rock, I think she is hot...late last year she met this other unmarried man (her friend called him Eye Candy!)...they volunteer together for a charity, she was his mentor and all was fine. After the mentorship ended, they met for coffee, to discuss the volunteering roll and at this point I was not even thinking any bad thoughts. Then there was another coffee and a long walk, it was not a secret, she was very open about it - but I then started to be unsure. They shared lots it seems, they had a report she said, she really liked his 'banter'. His name came into conversation often.

There were fairly frequent WhatsApp’s between them - then there was an evening drink suggested, which really started to worry me - but I did not want to be an arse and upset a new friendship which she seemed to value greatly. I know my wife was unsure about it – she joked she was going for a drink with ‘her lover’ and admitted it made her feel good. I thought it would be a quick glass of wine and not much more, but four hours later - I was then really getting concerned. She came home and immediately fell asleep (she is not a big drinker) but I wanted to talk to her and tell her I was feeling unhappy about this now. They had discussed lots it seems, including him telling her that his latest relationship had just finished – but my wife had shared some things about me, that I was not comfortable with.

I did not sleep that night, until she woke up and asked if I was OK. I then said NO and told her why, I was feeling left out, jealous, unsure for the first time in 30 years…would she like it if I was doing the same? She was shocked, I said “you are a beautiful looking woman’ why would he not be interested in you – it was a difficult conversation – she then, I thought understood how I felt, could see how upset I was and said she would stop it. Another week passed – she came home much later than I thought from volunteering – they had been out for another coffee. I must of looked strange and went quiet - she was mad at me for trying to ruin her friendship.

I backed off, thinking it was all me being paranoid (please tell me if I am) but I could not settle, work, sleep, do anything – it then blew up 48 hours later – I said I cannot handle this and she called him and told him – they better not meet again, as ?! (my name) does not like this. Eventually things calmed down – but on holiday the WhatsApp started again from him – including a message saying – “…have not been in touch much as ?! (my name) does not like it” – I am thinking WTF, you know I asked this to stop and you are still doing it. Even the WhatsApp messaged ended with a X…the content was nothing much other than “we are sharing a shift together soon, fancy lunch before?”.

Well the next lunch is 10 days away, I feel crap, cannot sleep, work is tough – but am I being paranoid, I am trying to be cool about – my wife has told me it is happening – I do not want to cause another eruption and say NO you cannot go – it is not my place to do that. She can see I am stressed, but this friendship seems more important than my feelings and emotions. She seems to think it is all fine, but I know men, it helps being one!!!

Maybe I am over thinking this? Insecure? I do not want other men telling me to go around and smack him, that’s for sure. But there is no one to talk to about this? Thoughts? Advice?

OP posts:
Polkadots2021 · 11/08/2021 13:17

@WatieKatie

I have many male friends who are in relationships. We go out for coffee, lunch, drinks and WhatsApp. Although no kisses. There is absolutely nothing in it other than a friendship.

Surely you trust her?

Me too, but I bet you don't act as intensely with the mentionitis and the frequency of seeing each other. Trust is important but shouldn't be blind.
Bluntness100 · 11/08/2021 13:18

Yes I'd be upset about this too in your shoes OP. I would feel like my DH was saying "oh the wicked witch won't let us be together".

I disagree aith you both strongly. I work with mostly men so have a lot of male friends, if my husband told me he was jealous and I couldn’t see my friends no way I’d say ok ans stay home, I’d address it gently but tell him is jealousy was his issue and discuss trust but I’d one hundred percent see my friends as and when I wished. In no circumstances would I let my husband dictate who I can be friends with. Ever. That’s my decision. And I’d not change my behaviour due to his mental health problems.

thecognoscenti · 11/08/2021 13:40

Grow up. You don't get to decide who your wife - a whole separate individual person in her own right, not your chattel - is friends with.

Onthedunes · 11/08/2021 13:41

@Bluntness100

At what point Bluntness in your own relationship would you consider a relationship to be inappropriate.

When is that line crossed ?
What would upser you?

Onthedunes · 11/08/2021 13:41

upset

Dervel · 11/08/2021 14:19

It’s tough in situations like this not to project our own experiences onto it. There are obviously many valid perspectives coming up. At which point does a friendship become an emotional affair? Controlling behaviour in relationships, which is obviously wrong.

It is perhaps wise to consider each scenario on its own merits, nothing in the OPs story makes me immediately leap to him being controlling. He tried to not let it bother him, reached a point where he could not, and raised it with his wife who has had a very muddled response to it.

She started off being sympathetic, then switched to being being quite cold and callous to her husband’s feelings. It probably started off quite innocently, and when hubby raised his issues was completely ok with limiting contact. However in this blokes absence has probably realised she has caught feelings and is now justifying following them by framing husband as the villain of the piece all along.

The OP has had a gut feelings and intuitions about all this, which as things go on seem to have some foundation. I think gaslighting him away from trusting his own experiences is deeply wrong in this case.

Of course people should be free to associate with whomever they wish, it is a basic human freedom. Wether they are married or not, BUT when lines have been crossed, which taking the OP at face value they very much have been, there has to be a frank and honest discussion about that.

Crikeyalmighty · 11/08/2021 14:44

If this did turn out to be not quite so innocent I wonder what the folks who think he should put up and shut up will say— we as women are always being told to ‘follow your gut’ and look out for red flags— this guy is doing both in order to try and get to the bottom of something and being slated. As people have said I wonder if some responses would be different if it was a 50 something wife on here talking about her husband having cosy regular meet ups on her own with some younger good looking woman and frequent texting and it wasn’t an old long standing friend and someone she didn’t know.

samyeagar · 11/08/2021 14:52

@cervera

I have not forbidden anything, who would do that? - I just said I am not very happy about it. My wife has her own agency 100%.
Indeed she does, but so do you. This is where your boundaries come into play. Not being OK with something, and holding to your boundaries is not the same thing as being controlling. You have to decide if you are OK being in a relationship with this new dynamic.
samyeagar · 11/08/2021 14:56

@Crikeyalmighty

If this did turn out to be not quite so innocent I wonder what the folks who think he should put up and shut up will say— we as women are always being told to ‘follow your gut’ and look out for red flags— this guy is doing both in order to try and get to the bottom of something and being slated. As people have said I wonder if some responses would be different if it was a 50 something wife on here talking about her husband having cosy regular meet ups on her own with some younger good looking woman and frequent texting and it wasn’t an old long standing friend and someone she didn’t know.
The new eye candy woman at work, recently single, where he talks about her a lot, "jokingly" refers to her as his lover, they regularly text, they go out for extended drinks, and he confides things in her that he knows his wife would be uncomfortable with. All while knowing his wife is uncomfortable with the situation...
GalaxyGirl24 · 11/08/2021 15:16

This is tricky. You can't ban her from seeing him (as you are already aware) as it's not your right. She is entitled to have male friends. However, some things just don't sit right such as mentioning him all the time, texting him to say she won't be in touch because of you, drinking with him to an unusual level....

It's tricky. Could be innocent and she's just enjoying a like minded friend/colleague....could be a case of attractive man is showing interest so what's the harm in a bit of flirtation especially if her friends think he's fit....could be an emotional affair or heading to a physical one. If you were a woman, people would tell you to be wary...

I have male friends however DH knows there would never be anything between us as 1.) in between seeing them every month or so I am not obsessed with them, 2.) they come to the house and after 8 years of friendship and me being with DH like 12 years they are his friends too and like uncles to my DD 3.) I don't find them attractive despite them being very kind and conventionally pleasant looking men.

When you get a gut feeling on things it's often based in something OP

WallaceinAnderland · 11/08/2021 15:30

If she has a friendship with a new female friend and he was trying to stop it the responses would be very very different. There should be no gender bias here.

Even if the friend was female, I would still think it odd referring to her as her lover and saying she is eye candy and makes her feel good about herself. I would still think she was smitten and maybe there was more going on.

Morningsaregreat · 11/08/2021 15:40

Go with your gut feeling.

stepupandbecounted · 11/08/2021 15:59

In your position I would probably tell my dh that is fine for him to continue with the lunches and drinks if he wants to, but I would no longer wish to be married to him. Disregarding my feelings and continuing to message would be the reason.

Your wife should be telling the man she is married to you, she is in love with you and ending this EA. Not for you, but for your marriage. She should be blocking and avoiding him if she cared at all for your marriage.

My dh and I have an agreement that if either one of us is uncomfortable about another person, out of respect and love for each other we put each other first. Your wife knows this is making you deeply unhappy and she is continuing to see and speak to him anyway, this is the problem.

I would be asking her to make her decision - she either continues to see him and the marriage is over, or she choose her marriage and respects you.

HaudYerWheestFella · 11/08/2021 15:59

@Onthedunes

At what point Bluntness in your own relationship would you consider a relationship to be inappropriate.

When is that line crossed ?
What would upser you?

Don't you know @onthedunes that bluntness is the epitome of 'cool wife' and there seems to be absolutely nothing that her OH could do which would raise her suspicions, right down to shagging someone else in front of her it would seem Hmm

Time and time again on threads like this she points out it is all down to the OP's jealousy and trust issues and it's a them problem and doesn't give credit to that fact that people in relationships KNOW their spouse and what is out of their character behaviour.

Maybe OP is jealous and controlling but so far he sounds pretty level headed to me but something in his gut is telling him this is at least something to be wary of.

stepupandbecounted · 11/08/2021 16:04

I wouldn't want to be in a marriage with someone that choose to out for intimate dinners with another man/woman full stop. They are not 'friends' stretching back for years or buddies from childhood. They have just met, and she is prioritising seeing him over her marriage right now.

You have a right to secure and loving relationship, you have a right to have your own boundaries, you have a right to be respected. And so does your wife.

You can let her carry on doing as she pleases, or you can draw some lines in the sand and say this is no longer acceptable to you. I would be doing the latter, and let her choose. You will have your answer.

Christinayangtwistedsister · 11/08/2021 16:23

@Bluntness100

Yes I'd be upset about this too in your shoes OP. I would feel like my DH was saying "oh the wicked witch won't let us be together".

I disagree aith you both strongly. I work with mostly men so have a lot of male friends, if my husband told me he was jealous and I couldn’t see my friends no way I’d say ok ans stay home, I’d address it gently but tell him is jealousy was his issue and discuss trust but I’d one hundred percent see my friends as and when I wished. In no circumstances would I let my husband dictate who I can be friends with. Ever. That’s my decision. And I’d not change my behaviour due to his mental health problems.

Wow so the OP has been diagnosed with mental health issues because he is worried about this situation with his wife??
Skysblue · 11/08/2021 16:26

I’m sorry OP. Your feelings are natural and they’re both being disrespectful to you.

I suggest you ask her if she is serious about her long term future with you because having an ‘emotional affair’ is not ok.

I don’t know either of you, but my worry is she’s trying to keep her relationship with you ticking over while exploring whether some kind of a future with him is an option. Or maybe he just makes her feel flirty and young who knows. Still not ok.

Everyone sometimes meets someone who they’re as attracted to as their spouse - sometimes more so. I’ve been married decades and a couple of times I’ve met men who, had I been single, I could have fallen in love with, and who seemed interested in me. The trick is to recognise what is happening and cut off the friendship before it becomes dangerous.

stepupandbecounted · 11/08/2021 16:29

I don’t know either of you, but my worry is she’s trying to keep her relationship with you ticking over while exploring whether some kind of a future with him is an option

I agree with this. She is testing out how she feels and a future with him whilst keeping you on the back burner should it nor work out.

We have all been there at some point, I certainly have - with an attractive man pursuing me and most of us turn off our phones, ignore the messages and shut down the budding emotional affair before it starts and put our marriages first.

Toomuchtodoo · 11/08/2021 17:02

@Gilda152

Get a single female friend of your own through a shared interest for example - who you can whatsapp and go out alone with and jokingly call your lover. If your wife is bothered by it, she needs to learn to be respectful of your feelings and have a wake up call, if she isn't , she's checked out.
That won't work. If she's developing feelings for this other bloke she will be so loved up she likely won't even notice, or care if OP gets his own friend. People in the throes of an affair are oblivious to what's going on around them.
Toomuchtodoo · 11/08/2021 17:10

I wouldn't want to be in a marriage with someone that chose to gi out for intimate dinners with another man/woman
I agree 100% with this.

Gilda152 · 11/08/2021 20:15

@Toomuchtodoo maybe read my post again. I said if she isn't bothered by it, she's checked out.

judgejudyrocks · 12/08/2021 07:42

Do you still have sex with your wife? If you have been neglecting her, this might be the consequences coming home to roost. Not saying that this is the case, but it's a genuine question.

Perriwinkles · 12/08/2021 07:49

If this did turn out to be not quite so innocent I wonder what the folks who think he should put up and shut up will say— we as women are always being told to ‘follow your gut’ and look out for red flags— this guy is doing both in order to try and get to the bottom of something and being slated

This is so true. ^^

As for saying there should be no gender bias, I disagree … it appears she is heterosexual & so is ‘her lover’ so c’mon, let’s call a spade a spade, that’s not the same as a new female friend in this case!

Why is it so hard to accept that her behaviour is upsetting? This doesn’t have to turn into an ethical debate. Can we please give the guy some credit? He’s losing sleep over this for a reason. A 30 year marriage is at stake here!

Crikeyalmighty · 12/08/2021 10:09

@Perriwinkles. Thanks for quoting me above. It boils my piss that people constantly quote ‘follow your gut’ and ‘heed the red flags’ and when someone actually does this, but is Male , some folks don’t like it. As others have said you know in a long marriage when the dynamic is off and you I think know when a friend is more than a friend— even if nothing untoward has happened.

Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow · 12/08/2021 10:17

@judgejudyrocks

Do you still have sex with your wife? If you have been neglecting her, this might be the consequences coming home to roost. Not saying that this is the case, but it's a genuine question.
Omfg! Can you imagine someone saying this to a woman??????