Dragged into parent's row again

[Workyticket]

My mam and dad have been together 50 years. It feels like every time they row I get dragged into it and I'm absolutely sick of it.

We got married 4 weeks ago. Postponed twice due to covid. Planning was shite and 99% of it was done via messenger or email. No hen or stag do, no visiting flower shops. Nothing really.

Wedding was 1 day before restrictions lifted. Venue were great but it was stressful right up to the day with ds in isolation, relatives not able to make it etc. Wedding was great and a huge relief to get it done quite frankly.

My dad rang a couple of days ago to say my mam had cried every day since the wedding and that they were fighting about it. She wasn't involved enough in the planning, my MIL didn't talk to her enough etc...

They both had covid the week before last Mam was poorly, dad was fine. I rang dad every day, dropped shopping etc at the door. Mam was asleep every time I rang. Dad says she's cried about that. Nobody cares enough to ring her phone etc.

I have 2 siblings. Neither phoned them. One sent 2 texts the entire time. I'm the one who fusses for birthdays, has them for Xmas, checks in on them etc. Siblings do shit all.

I've kept my distance. No honeymoon but we're trying to enjoy some time together etc and I couldn't be arsed with the drama.

I've had texts from dad yesterday and today with "why have you fallen out with mam" "you'll miss her when she's gone" blah blah.

They've turned up today as we were getting ready to go for a meal demanding to clear the air. Mam crying saying she hadn't said any of the things dad had told me. Him semi denying it, just repeating "life is too short, you only get 1 mam"

I've literally done nothing bar listen to him on the phone and keep my distance for a week yet I'm caught again in their he said / she said drama. I explained about planning being shit, there was nothing be involved in really as she doesn't use the Internet.

She cried saying she expected to clear the air, not argue (I was asking them to clarify the he said / she said shite rather than just letting it go)

I've no clue why I'm posting. I've read other family drama on here and this obviously isn't in that league but om bone tired of being dragged into their rows and the emotional "you only get one mam and dad" shit.

Sorry - so long. Even if nobody responds I've got it off my chest.

Learning to set boundaries is imperative. Boundaries create a healthy separation between you and others. We need physical boundaries (such as personal space, privacy, and the right to refuse a hug or other physical touch) and emotional boundaries (such as the right to have our own feelings, to say no, to be treated with respect, or not answer a call from a toxic person).

To get started, you need to identify the specific boundaries that you need. Notice when you feel guilty, resentful, unappreciated, or angry. Explore what is underneath these feelings because there is a good chance there was a boundary violation.

Guilt can be a huge barrier to setting boundaries, being assertive, developing a separate sense of self, and doing whats right for you not whats right according to others. Guilt is often used as a manipulation tactic in enmeshed families. We are told that were wrong, selfish, or uncaring if we go against the grain. Over time, most of us internalize this guilt and come to believe that setting boundaries or having our own opinions is wrong. This kind of thinking is often so entrenched that its the hardest aspect of enmeshment to overcome.

The first step in changing it is to recognize that guilt and self-criticism are not helpful or accurate reflections of reality. Notice how often you feel guilty and how often guilt dictates your behavior. Then try to challenge the distorted thoughts that perpetuate feelings of guilt.

what a pair!
he obviously is up to his neck in her behaviour and involves you
i was going to start a thread on my dm behaviour, but she is a widow - you unfortunately have double whammy -
let it go over your head op.
stick your fingers in your ears and remember, This is just a phase

Your mum sound depressed, menopausal, or both.

@DinosaurDiana

Your mum sound depressed, menopausal, or both.

She is depressed. Has been all my life. Doea nothing about it bar take a low dose antidepressant which she intermittently stops taking.

I've pushed it through their door. I k ow that advise waa not to but it's impossible to explain anything in person because my mam just cries.

I don't want to cut them off. I love them. This is their chance to consider the impact of their behaviour. Obviously if they choose not to then I'll have to think about that.

Sounds like they're the kids and you're the adult!

Ridiculous behaviour from both of them.

Fingers crossed for you that the y reconsider their behavior. But I am afraid its very unlikely, its more likely that the letter will be a stick to beat you with for years to come. You need to prepare yourself for the worse scenario, while hoping for the best. Having high expectations in such cases is just a one way street to disappointment.

But we'll done for putting down all your thoughts and feeling down and deciding to confront them. It must have been very hard to break from the usual patterns of behavior and deciding to take action. It goes against all the "training" you have received over the years from them. It's a first step towards restoring your mental and emotional wellbeing

Yes, pre covid I spent a lot of time with Mam 1:1. Took her out for lunch regularly, weekends away for birthdays etc. She's always been 'emotional'

I've always tread on egg Shells. Never allowed to disagree so as not to make her cry.

Not really my nature, I'm feisty as fuck with everyone else.

As your experience shows, OP, you can manage the behaviour of someone like this. No matter what you do/how hard you try/how much you try to squash aside your own reasonable wants and needs - something will always set them off.

So stop trying. Having good, strong boundaries is all about recognising that tiu cannot change someone else's behaviour, you can only change how you respond to it. I see you've actually done this before, such as when they attempted to gatecrash your arrival home with your son. Well done to you!

I once stopped speaking to my mum. I was completely ready to lose the entire relationship, including that with my dad, because it wasn't worth it. Miraculously after a few weeks she travelled 100 miles to apologise to me. We haven't had such issues since.

*can't manage

Really feel for you. When you’re in the moment of feeling guilty, it’s really hard to come up with the rational response.

@SeaShoreGalore

Really feel for you. When you’re in the moment of feeling guilty, it’s really hard to come up with the rational response.

Thank you.

A couple of days away has done me good. Obviously it's playing on my mind though

They've done as I asked and not contacted me but I want to contact them in the next day or so as I don't want to drag it out.

Da is meant to be with them next Thursday so I'll need to quickly sort something else if they've not taken my letter as intended and decide to stay away for good

You were all right. I shouldn't have posted the letter

I've come home to a reply. Mam can't believe how much I've changed, she hopes i never struggle with depression then listed in detail about a domestic violence incident she witnessed as a child (which i know about, we've spoken at length about before)

She had a shit childhood, I'm devastated for her and wish her life could have started off differently. I can't change it though, and I can't pay for it with every life event of mine anymore 😪

She's ignored everything I wrote. She can't see our relationship being the same ever again. She's not sleeping and has cried every day since the wedding 4 weeks ago.

I honestly don't know what to do next

Keep on doing what you're doing, which is standing up to them. Don't be explaining yourself and writing letters etc it's pointless, they don't want to hear you. But don't tolerate any more nonsense from them, from this day forward.

If they want to be pleasant company they can have a conversation with you. If they're going to be unpleasant in any way whether its moaning about stuff, belittling you, insulting you, playing mind games or demanding all the attention. Whatever form the bad behaviour takes walk away, hang up or ask them to leave. You don't even need to explain why, they'll know why. Then you're not cutting them out they're cutting themselves out.

Nobody wants to break off contact with their family partner or friend but sometimes its necessary as the only way to protect your own sanity.

Try keeping a diary of every negative event however small and how much of your life it takes up eg half hour having a row about spilt milk and 4 days of 6hrs stressing about what happened and was said, replaying it in your mind etc. Note it all down so you can see in black and white how bad the situation really is and how much of your life they're stealing with their shenanigans. It might make you feel differently about breaking off contact.

Also remember love isn't everything. If you were with an abusive partner would you also stay with him if you loved him or would you know that you needed to get away from the situation? Just because someone is blood relationship it's no different. Nobody should ever be abusive towards you.

@IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves

When your dad next phones to tell you how upset your mum is and what she's been saying - tell him "put mum on the phone now please" when he refuses, insist. Keep repeating that it's important to talk about what he's just told you she's said as he's said she's upset. Don't let him change the subject, keep solely on getting her to the phone. If he resists, then say ok, I'm going to call mums phone right now and talk about it.

I think that has a chance of stopping him. Worth a try.

Then, if it was me, I'd say "since I keep 'getting hold of the wrong end of the stick' I've recorded this conversation so when I talk to mum we can listen to it and I can be sure I've not misunderstood"

But I'm a cow so you're probably nicer than me 😁

This would be too much like hard work for me. I wouldn't even give them this much head space.

"Hi it's dad, you've upset mum and she's crying"

"I'm not going to talk about that with you, bye"

I feel awful moaning about them. They love us

But unfortunately they love themselves more and it shows in their me me me behaviour

This is such a difficult position to be in. It's made harder by the fact that your siblings seem to escape the worst of your parents' behaviour.

There are lots of things going on. The biggest is your parents' relationship and your feeling that you get dragged into their arguments. That's something where being clearer about your boundaries would help - eg 'I'm sorry mam/dad (to whichever one is involving you), that's something you'll have to sort out together'.

In terms of your mam's involvement in the wedding, even if covid had never existed, crying every day for a month because she wanted to be more involved is really not a reasonable response. You are not Effie from Cold Comfort Farm and she is not Flora Post. That's my way of trying to say that she can't have expected to be involved in the way she might have been if you and your husband were both 17 when you married.

The only tiny concession to their being upset about their involvement I would make is that you mentioned your parents don't really bother much about covid guidelines. Maybe they don't understand all the restrictions that existed, even though they have featured so heavily on the news. A friend of mine lost her husband when the 30 'mourner' rule was still operational. Her husband's family simply did not understand why she told them they could not invite anybody they wanted.

I know you feel that in hindsight, you should not have posted the letter but your mam said she was not sleeping and crying every day even before you posted the letter. The letter is really another of those eggshells you've been walking on.

I didn't want to think of you being awake and worrying. I wish I had more practical advice.

When you posted the letter, you said this was their chance to reflect on the impact of their behaviour. Now you have their response. They have chosen to weaponise your sincere attempt to repair the relationship, and made you the scapegoat.

You need to step away. You can't help them and their level of dysfunction certainly can't help you. It's time to do some reading on toxic relationships to recognise the patterns that are there and to realise this isn't about you - you didn't cause it.

Unfortunately they will use every line you've written against you.

Look up grey rock and start to put this into practice, if you carry on down this road with them you'll end up on anti depressants yourself.

Next time your Dad says Mum has been crying since the wedding 'oh dear, there's nothing I can do to change that' next time he rings and tells you Mum has been crying all day 'I'm sorry to hear that' stop engaging with them, make yourself as boring as possible and go very low contact with them

Unfortunately your mum is unable to see anyone's pain and suffering but her own. You cannot change this. All you can do is step right back and minimise her chances of hurting you.
Nothing that you can say or do is making her feel better so time for you to protect yourself and your daughter. 💐

You are not responsible for your mother’s childhood or her reactions to it. You shouldn’t carry the burden of it or be manipulated by this. Now would be the perfect time to tell her that therapy is her way forward. You can’t (and won’t) continue being her “adult” and she needs to stop letting the past be her excuse for bad behaviour now. When she attempts to guilt trip or manipulate, be strong. Listen to your inner voice and trust it. It is also not appropriate for her to throw her history at you to justify bad behaviour. You are within your rights to tell her to grow up.

It is true that your relationship may never be the same. This is a good thing. It was causing stress and resentment. If she accepts responsibility for herself (and develops an identity separate from you and your DF that allows her to express her needs openly, rather than through weird, manipulation tactics), you might have a chance of having a relationship that is genuine amd less resentful.

I am so sorry that things didn't turn out as you hoped.

One thing ur mum said she is right about. Your relationship will never be the same. However, this is a good thing, cause the relationship as it was was unhealthy, toxic, and affecting your mental and emotional wellbeing.

Now about going firwards:
-you need to accept that you cannot fix a relationship when the other person isn't willing to accept any responsibility or be willing to fix things. Takes 2 to tango
-you need to set out boundaries for yourself to define what's acceptable for you within the relationship
-look into grey rock and start using it in interactions with your parents. They cannot draw u into drama games if you aren't taking the bait
-when u feel emotionally ready, acknowledge ur mums reply to your letter, tell her I guess you will have to agree to disagree about the different perspectives you have of the relationship and then outline your boundaries for the future. Do not argue or debate about her letter or her lack of reply to your points, it will be pointless
-take a step back of doing all the things you were doing for them. Take some time and decide what you actually want to do for them and with them.
-if manipulative behavior happens, do not reward it by going ahead with plans
-deal with it like you would with an unreasonable toddler, ignore the tantrums until they start behaving reasonably.
-overall, try to maintain healthy boundaries and reduce contact.

Also personally, I wouldn't host them at yours for Christmas, have a chilled family Christmas at home and go visit them for a few hours at theirs on boxing day. Though if u did that, put ur phones on dnd and ignore any outside communication to avoid spoiling the day. If u go to them, u have control of how long u stay and easier to leave if things get heated up or manipulative. If they are at yours u can't really ask them to leave without outcries of u kicking ur poor suffering mum out

Thank you all - I'm taking in all the advice. I'm devastated it's come to this - I hate that my mam had such a shit childhood but she's had 70 years to get counselling and help herself

I've begged her not to stop taking her meds dozens of times. She said in her letter that she tries to manage without them but feels so low. I know she does - hence wanting her to stay on them!

I'm waiting on PCR results, assuming it'll be positive after 3 positive LFTs so that buys me time.

Well it’s sad she had a bad time as a child but why does that mean she has to sulk and be manipulative about your wedding??

Workyticket, my Mum had a shit childhood too, and spent hours talking about it to me. Never wanted to talk about the shit childhood she'd put me through though. She prided herself on how strong she was- she'd never had therapy or anti-depressants. No, so, she'd never dealt with her trauma, and was a-okay with me going through similar, cos now I knew how she felt, and she'd had much worse, don't you know.

I did have a shed load of counselling, therapy and dealt with it. I didn't want to inflict it on my children the way she did me.

And I put a cold hard stop to my mother using me as a cross between a therapist and a whipping girl. I will not hear a single solitary word about her childhood. The minute she starts, I leave the room. It is not appropriate for our parents to do this to us. We are not their therapists. If she wants to talk to someone about her shit life, then she pays a professional. I'm not down for it, and neither should you be.

Your mother had a choice when it came to you and took the low road. She never wanted to seek the necessary help and instead inflicted the abuse done to her onto you from childhood.

Drop the rope she holds out to you along with any and all hope that she will change. Such people do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Your dad here is her willing enabler, women like this always need a willing enabler to help them.

I'm so sorry that others have had similar situations with their parents

I feel like because I didn't have a shit childhood like she did I'm not allowed to be upset by anything they do

It's like a competition.