Husband’s studies are destroying our marriage

[Yelpforhelpp]

DH and I have been together for almost 10 years, married for 6 and have 2 DC aged almost 3 and 12 months. We met at uni so both have degrees and have subsequently had decent, fairly well paid careers ever since.

Over the years DH has had numerous harebrained ideas such as going back to uni to study politics and become an MP, he got as far as applying through clearing but then backed out when he was accepted. He has also paid for random courses on groupon which he’s never completed and often speaks about business ventures he’d like to undertake. None ever materialise so I think I can be forgiven for rolling my eyes and not always taking him seriously.

In 2019 he decided he wanted to return to uni to get a second degree relevant to his career. It wasn’t necessary at all, it won’t further his career prospects within the company as far as I can see. It was more him wanting to further his knowledge within the field. He decided this in July 2019, his boss amazingly agreed and by August 2019 he had been accepted. When he mentioned it to me I honestly just thought he’d back out of it like he did with everything else but to my surprise, he didn’t.

Ever since it began our marriage has taken a major tumble. When he first started we only had one baby and I’d just returned to work but fell pregnant unexpectedly about 2 months after he started uni. As the Christmas period approached that year he had exams and he was so stressed out, he stayed up all night for a week revising and survived on energy drinks. It really wasn’t a healthy way to live, not even as a young student but he was now obviously late 20s with a young child and a job to go to the next day. We were already struggling at this point but obviously lockdown happened and the rest of the academic year was cancelled.

I’d say the lockdown period last year is the last time we actually got on. We had DC2 July 2020 and we really got on fantastically well until he returned to uni in September. Once he returned and had assignments and exams, it basically all went to shit. Once again he was a frazzled mess, pulling all nighters, constantly stressed out and worrying, spending entire weekends locked away in his study, barely spending time with us. He has no work/life balance at all, if he isn’t at work he seems to be studying at home.

The past 3/4 months have been worse than ever because he’s had numerous exams and assignments due in at a similar time so he’s been pretty much unbearable. He’s used all of his annual leave on study days, we went away for a long weekend to the coast last week and I had to take DC out alone because he stayed behind to study. He rarely helps out with DC anymore, I bath and put both to bed while he sits studying. He had yesterday off work to study so literally sat from the minute he got up to the minute we went to bed on his laptop. I can barely get a word in edgeways because he’s constantly discussing uni. It isn’t my field and not something I have much interest in so I usually have no idea what he’s talking about. I think it’s made worse by the fact he doesn’t only want a second degree but wants to graduate with a first again so he’s adamant he has to do his absolute best on every assignment/exam.

I have PND which is only amplifying my resentment towards him. I’m having weekly counselling sessions and the counsellor has said I need more support from him with DC, a GP told me this too. We moved away from my family before DC1 was born so I rarely see them and I don’t have any friends here either, I’m quite isolated atm but return to work PT in September so hoping that will help. I can’t pin the PND solely on him but have been told women who are both isolated from family/friends and who don’t receive any support with their children are more at risk. I didn’t have PND after DC1 so I’m thinking it’s because he isn’t very supportive.

The absolute worst thing is when people make out he’s some kind of messiah because he manages to work, study and has two small children. FIL is forever saying how proud he is and asking him not to ‘burn himself out’ . He’s chosen to study, it really isn’t necessary at all and nobody has forced him to do this. He also doesn’t do very much with DC or housework so he spends the vast majority of his time studying, none of this would be possible without me constantly picking up the slack.

I’m honestly just fed up and I have told him I don’t see our marriage lasting over the next year. I can’t imagine how he’s going to be with his dissertation, I don’t think I’ll be able to cope. I’m on the verge of ending our marriage right now because I’m struggling to see past this. I know he only has a year left and if I’ve survived the past 2, I should be able to push myself through the next one but I honestly can’t see a way through right now.

Just seeking some general advice, is divorce the only option? I still love him dearly but I really can’t cope with this. I know a lot of women deal with their OH’s working away for months at a time but I wouldn’t be able to, it isn’t what I signed up for really. He could have done this degree when the DC were older and at school, I honestly have no idea why he chose to do it right now when they’re so small and need help with everything. I’m going to spend some time at my Mum’s next week to get a break away from him and clear my head a bit.

YANBU in the sense that the FIL comments are really irritating and you are doing an amazing job in a really tough situation.

Not so sure about the degree specifically. You did both agree to him doing it, and DC2 was a surprise after he started it, so it sounds like an unexpected baby is the thing that has (unsurprisingly) pushed things to the limit. If his boss says yes surely it has at least a bit of relevance to his job, and study is tough even without trying to work as well.

Overall in the marriage though it sounds like you feel the issue is deeper than just the degree decision though. Only you can know whether it’s worth hanging in for a year or trying to see if he will defer, or whether you’ve had enough more generally.

When the kids are at school and older so you want to be together with your husband, or do you see yourselves separated?

“Personally I would leave him to get on with this degree. Don't make him feel bad as it impacts both of you negatively. Equally tell him you no longer want to listen to his learning objectives etc. It bores you and he is getting what he wants from you by bouncing his ideas off you, but you get nothing in return. Fuck that particular one way street. Tell him you will tolerate this one more year, and it will never happen again and he had better buckle down to real life after he finishes. If you get the vibe it's going to continue beyond the year, look at ways out.”

This. Plus a timetable detailing your downtime (gym/out with friends etc) when he is in sole charge of the children, and his household tasks, whatever the particular demands of his course on that day. As someone else said, he can borrow stufy time from sleeping time, not family time.

Study time

His time management seems poor, and he is easily stressed, apparently. That's not helping.

I did my degree with primary age children, one with severe disabilities, and working. I always put them to bed, read stories, took them out for the day. I wasn't stressy, or studying every waking hour - I was also a parent! I got a first, too.

Sorry posted too soon. I hope he sees your point of view - he is a parent, so he needs to parent. And he needs to give a shit about you and your PND. I'm cross on your behalf, OP.

OP,

He clearly is a very selfish excuse of a man who cares little for you or his children.

He is consumed by his ego and needs.

I think your children desperately need one parent who cares and that is you.

You need to think hard about what is best for you.

Your health is a priority.

Get him to move out.
Move home to your mother and support.
Do not factor this man in at all.

He has utterly checked out of his marriage and that is why he can watch you struggle so desperately with two very young children, while ill.

He is a selfish disgrace.

Good men do not behave like this.

They do not sign up for unnecessary degrees without discussing it with their partner.

You need to detach from him, because he sure as hell has detached from you and your children.

I fully admire people who want to further their education and have the drive and determination to do so. However your dh is doing this at the detriment of his relationships. I'm godsmacked that he's upset that you are going to your mothers when he has his week off, tbh how dare he. He puts his own wants and wishes before you all year, yet expects you to drop everything when he's free.

Education at this level is the same as any hobby. Would we all be understanding if he put the same time and energy into cycling or golf? The op has already said it's unlikely to further his career or have any financial rewards. He's doing this because he wants to. He could have done this in a few years time when his dc are older, but chooses to do it now and remove himself from all parental, house and relationship responsibilities.

You could just carry on rather than leave, as leaving would not add any additional responsibilities for you, infact it might reduce them as you'll have one less 'child' to look after. By staying it's likely to increase your resentment.

Her posts come across badly once you know the key details and I'm hoping it's because of her PND and not her true personality.

What an unbelievably fucked up thing to write. I mean, you have some bad takes here (“maybe her husband will find someone who appreciates him and enjoys listening to him wang on about corrosion for an hour while taking no interest in her life and not being willing to support her emotionally or practically!”) but this one is just foul. Also, her posts only seem to come across badly to you. Maybe some issues you need to work on?

If the genders were reversed and the OP actually put all.of the truth in the original post, posters would be telling OP to suck it up and stop being so undermining of their own spouse, and be supportive for the final year of study.

And yet posters clearly know the full story, having read all her posts, and still think the dh is being selfish, and are not telling the op to just suck it up, despite knowing the truth of the situation.

I’m also sure that you can’t explain why it’s so evil for op to be undermining her spouse here, but absolutely fine for her spouse to be undermining her and their children by refusing to take her pnd seriously, refusing to parent his own children, and refusing to consider the impact of his actions on his own family.

Extra credit though for the hyperbolic “smashing up her home” divorce comment. But men can “smash up” their wife and children’s mental health by ignoring them and their needs and that’s fine…

OP have you clearly and carefully discussed this issue with your DH so that there is no doubt he understands where you're coming from? I think you need to be a bit more assertive and clear in setting out boundaries. You also need to explain to him that when he procrastinates it is very unhelpful and stressful for you. You really shouldn't need to ask him to help out, let alone ask him more than once. Does he understand that you're at the end of your tether and your marriage is on the line?

If you're not currently working but your DH is, I'd expect that during standard working hours you would be doing all the childcare for 2 young children. Outside of those hours, childcare, household tasks and chores should be shared equally so that you both share the load and have equal leisure / rest time. If your DH chooses to spend all his leisure time studying, that's down to him. In the run up to an exam or significant piece of work, I'd expect you to give him a bit of extra time to focus on that work, but that he should then make it up to you when that's completed. If your DH chooses to buy some help with childcare or cleaning so that he can spend more time studying, that's up to him, but it shouldn't impact on you in any way.

" I have always pretended to be interested"
You sit there passively while he rants on.
You have taken this role of listener and soother of feelings (like many of us do). For you, having his eyes on you in some form satisfies your need for attention from him. Especially if you are the private type and dislike people prying into your own feelings.
But now this degree seems to have become his preferred 'other relationship' and you are angry and jealous because he seems to be valuing of achievement above you, and avoidance of family life has become even more pronounced.
He craves recognition that's why he's doing it. He needs to fend off feelings of inferiority.
You need to state your case clearly. A few nags, tired sighs, hints, yawns and sideways remarks aren't enough to get through.
You miss him. You feel disconnected, isolated, unloved and lonely and abandoned. That's what you need to tell him.

I did a degree and a Masters and worked 4 days a week and managed to spend time with my husband and children. He is being a selfish arsehole, using his studies to get out of "helping" you with his children.

@TillyTopper

Your main point seems to be that his 2nd degree is for zero benefit and only for himself. However, if his work have agreed to give him a day off a week for it then it must have some payback for them otherwise they wouldn't agree to it. I see his employer has also funded it and unless it's worthwhile no way would they do that.

OP, I do not want to be harsh because you are obviously struggling, but has this blown up in your mind because you are slightly jealous? Perhaps your DH genuinely believes that he needs to earn more money to support 2 DCs (especially as one wasn't planned). Could you get additional help (e.g. cleaner/childcare) to help you through.

This!

Gosh, you have my sympathies. He is failing as a husband and father and is being totally selfish. What on earth would he do if you weren't there??? Oh wait, I know - you would dump his child with this parents and carry on as if he were single.

If you confront him with after he finishes his studies, I wouldn't be surprised if he trots out a well worn line that many selfish use - 'But I did it all for you, don't you see?'. I'm not sure in his case if he'll even be using that.

Other than that, he sounds like an eternal student - always wanting to study, reluctant to commit to the real world, going from one degree to the next. There could be deep-seated reasons for this, such as fear, but I'm concerned that he may not have realised his true nature yet - that he might belong in academia (can be unreliable work and I'm not sure how that would work with family life) or he's a starter and not a finisher. He has the energy to get enthusiastic about things, is probably creative and likes coming up with ideas, but doesn't like the commitment and drudgery to finish them, generally. He just doesn't want to enter the real world and wants to stay the intellectual Peter Pan forever.

He needs to sit down and start learning about himself and his personality, otherwise he will keep bouncing from one degree to the next. He seems really selfish, but at the same time, his energy is very much being directed outwards it seems in this quest.....for what exactly? My guess is that the light he's envisioning at the end of this tunnel is the same light that people who are addicted to shopping have - they think 'if I buy this car, this hand bag, my life will be better'. They get a huge high which only lasts a short while and then they're on to the next thing. Without understanding what's driving his own behaviour, it will only carry on.

Does he even care though? You seem invisible and at this rate he is so close to truly fucking up. So sad that many realise it too late.

I've borrowed this from another thread as I think it's apropos

Women are fully human. We're not 'non-player characters'. We're not extras in the film of a man's life. We're not support humans.

@MrsTerryPratchett. That strikes a chord.

I am going to go against the grain but I am actually in your DH shoes at the moment so I can see his side. It's bloody hard juggling work, uni and family life, I think you are underestimating how much stress he's under. It was an absolute nightmare during lockdown for us. My DH doesn't pick up much of the other household things either as he has a stressful job too so I was juggling the majority of the household things plus the dcs as well. It's put a huge strain on me and my marriage. It sounds like it's hard for you but I think you need to discuss it with your DH and try and sort something out that is going to make you both happier but it's only a short time and I think you should try and support him and understand how much pressure and stress he is probably under.

All the best op, I understand your perspectives, maybe in the long run things will.improve ?

@cleocleo16

I am going to go against the grain but I am actually in your DH shoes at the moment so I can see his side. It's bloody hard juggling work, uni and family life, I think you are underestimating how much stress he's under. It was an absolute nightmare during lockdown for us. My DH doesn't pick up much of the other household things either as he has a stressful job too so I was juggling the majority of the household things plus the dcs as well. It's put a huge strain on me and my marriage. It sounds like it's hard for you but I think you need to discuss it with your DH and try and sort something out that is going to make you both happier but it's only a short time and I think you should try and support him and understand how much pressure and stress he is probably under.

But it’s entirely self-imposed stress and pressure in the OP’s DH’s case, and, unlike you, he’s used it to opt out entirely from family life and dumping it all on the OP.

I think if you get yourself a cleaner and try and get the children into the childminders occasionally over the summer to get some time to yourself this will help. Having a cleaner takes so much stress away as once a week the routine cleaning is done.
Draw up the timetable - which days you do bedtime and which days he does. Which days you get time to do work for your job. And stick to it.
If he wants a 6 figure job you'll be looking at buying in the parenting/house support he won't be able to contribute to.
I'd make it very clear that there will be no masters or you will split.

@SixesAndEights

Something that stood out for me is that he's started, or been about to start, numerous qualifications then dropped out and you've criticised him for that, yet here he is sticking with something and you don't want him to do that either. In fact, you're quite disparaging about the whole thing. He says it will deepen his knowledge, that it's relevant. His work have paid for it so they must also think it's worthwhile, even if you're amazed they've done so. Employers don't splash out money for no reason. His boss must believe it will be beneficial even if you don't.

A relative of mine studied for an MA whilst working full time and with two very young children. Her husband, also working full time, picked up the slack. She barely slept and lived off vitamin pills.

I don't know OP, you say he hasn't been supportive of you, yet you've rolled your eyes at his studying, don't engage when he talks about it because you're not interested, are amazed his employer paid for it, you think it's pointless, and you thought he'd back out of it because he had done with everything else.

You talk about wanting him to defer, and I feel you'd rather he just stopped, but wouldn't that just end up being another thing he doesn't finish?

He's working full time and doing a degree full time. You're currently looking after the children full time. Perhaps a balance would be him taking some of the load off you, and you taking some of the load off him, too. So you both feel better supported in both your lives.

But he's only doing an undergrad, I say only because he's already got one, and if he wants to progress seriously he'd need an MA, like your friend, and the OP has made clear she's always picking up the slack. A second undergrad is pointless and I'd be equally surprised that his work would pay for it.

Oh goodness, I'd cut my losses right now and move in with your DM! There are teaching jobs everywhere. One of my cousins was in your position (although it was a PhD), eventually dumped him and met a lovely man who she lived with for the rest of her life.

Selfish people rarely change.

Yes, he shouldn't be using it to opt out of family life, I don't have that option as DH tries to opt out and has a high pressured job so I have been doing it all. Until we sat down and had a conversation about it and I told him I am not happy, it's too much pressure. Perhaps you need to do the same.

Self inflicted? He's trying to better himself, trying to increase his earning potential and maybe do something for himself, expand his mind. Nothing wrong with that. You could say the same about me, yes, I have put myself under this stress but in the long run it's better for the family. I am just saying it from the other side that she might be underestimating the amount of stress and pressure he's under, how full his head is. I am doing my masters whilst working part time, I can't imagine doing it whilst working full time. I sympathise with your DH.

Wow.

I am currently in your DH's shoes.
Studying full time, working full time, we have 4 young DC (1 with special needs) and live in another country to our family (we haven't seen them for 2 years now).

Originally when we discussed the course, my parents were coming to help out as I attend training courses almost every school holiday. That hasn't happened and my DH has massively stepped up.

I am ridiculously stressed and miss my kids. I miss my friends. I miss my DH and having time to myself.
The difference here is that DH supports me. He is keeping everything going at home. It's not been easy. No, I don't need this degree but education is never a bad thing. But he had faith in me and we agreed to this as a family. I have felt like giving up a few times but he has always encouraged me. We also have a lot of friends who support all of us as a family.

You agreed to his plans. Now you are thinking about divorce because he stuck to it, even though you have had an unplanned pregnancy, and now have a small baby. It's not an easy time for anyone but it is also a relatively short period of time, in the grand scheme of things.

You never know what will happen in the future with regards to his career, beyond nothing will ever change if he doesn't finish it.

I think you need to seek help surrounding your PND and negative feelings. If you really don't love him then consider ending your marriage. But otherwise, eye on the prize.

@pegboardsu

Wow.

I am currently in your DH's shoes.
Studying full time, working full time, we have 4 young DC (1 with special needs) and live in another country to our family (we haven't seen them for 2 years now).

Originally when we discussed the course, my parents were coming to help out as I attend training courses almost every school holiday. That hasn't happened and my DH has massively stepped up.

I am ridiculously stressed and miss my kids. I miss my friends. I miss my DH and having time to myself.
The difference here is that DH supports me. He is keeping everything going at home. It's not been easy. No, I don't need this degree but education is never a bad thing. But he had faith in me and we agreed to this as a family. I have felt like giving up a few times but he has always encouraged me. We also have a lot of friends who support all of us as a family.

You agreed to his plans. Now you are thinking about divorce because he stuck to it, even though you have had an unplanned pregnancy, and now have a small baby. It's not an easy time for anyone but it is also a relatively short period of time, in the grand scheme of things.

You never know what will happen in the future with regards to his career, beyond nothing will ever change if he doesn't finish it.

I think you need to seek help surrounding your PND and negative feelings. If you really don't love him then consider ending your marriage. But otherwise, eye on the prize.

Oooft harsh 😳

@pegboardsu

Wow.

I am currently in your DH's shoes.
Studying full time, working full time, we have 4 young DC (1 with special needs) and live in another country to our family (we haven't seen them for 2 years now).

Originally when we discussed the course, my parents were coming to help out as I attend training courses almost every school holiday. That hasn't happened and my DH has massively stepped up.

I am ridiculously stressed and miss my kids. I miss my friends. I miss my DH and having time to myself.
The difference here is that DH supports me. He is keeping everything going at home. It's not been easy. No, I don't need this degree but education is never a bad thing. But he had faith in me and we agreed to this as a family. I have felt like giving up a few times but he has always encouraged me. We also have a lot of friends who support all of us as a family.

You agreed to his plans. Now you are thinking about divorce because he stuck to it, even though you have had an unplanned pregnancy, and now have a small baby. It's not an easy time for anyone but it is also a relatively short period of time, in the grand scheme of things.

You never know what will happen in the future with regards to his career, beyond nothing will ever change if he doesn't finish it.

I think you need to seek help surrounding your PND and negative feelings. If you really don't love him then consider ending your marriage. But otherwise, eye on the prize.

Why the self-pity? You admit that you don’t need this degree, so your stress is self-chosen, likewise your missing your children/DH/friends.

Studying for an unnecessary qualification when it has a huge negative impact on your family is a stupidly selfish decision. And I say that as someone with four degrees.