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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband’s studies are destroying our marriage

399 replies

Yelpforhelpp · 29/07/2021 12:21

DH and I have been together for almost 10 years, married for 6 and have 2 DC aged almost 3 and 12 months. We met at uni so both have degrees and have subsequently had decent, fairly well paid careers ever since.

Over the years DH has had numerous harebrained ideas such as going back to uni to study politics and become an MP, he got as far as applying through clearing but then backed out when he was accepted. He has also paid for random courses on groupon which he’s never completed and often speaks about business ventures he’d like to undertake. None ever materialise so I think I can be forgiven for rolling my eyes and not always taking him seriously.

In 2019 he decided he wanted to return to uni to get a second degree relevant to his career. It wasn’t necessary at all, it won’t further his career prospects within the company as far as I can see. It was more him wanting to further his knowledge within the field. He decided this in July 2019, his boss amazingly agreed and by August 2019 he had been accepted. When he mentioned it to me I honestly just thought he’d back out of it like he did with everything else but to my surprise, he didn’t.

Ever since it began our marriage has taken a major tumble. When he first started we only had one baby and I’d just returned to work but fell pregnant unexpectedly about 2 months after he started uni. As the Christmas period approached that year he had exams and he was so stressed out, he stayed up all night for a week revising and survived on energy drinks. It really wasn’t a healthy way to live, not even as a young student but he was now obviously late 20s with a young child and a job to go to the next day. We were already struggling at this point but obviously lockdown happened and the rest of the academic year was cancelled.

I’d say the lockdown period last year is the last time we actually got on. We had DC2 July 2020 and we really got on fantastically well until he returned to uni in September. Once he returned and had assignments and exams, it basically all went to shit. Once again he was a frazzled mess, pulling all nighters, constantly stressed out and worrying, spending entire weekends locked away in his study, barely spending time with us. He has no work/life balance at all, if he isn’t at work he seems to be studying at home.

The past 3/4 months have been worse than ever because he’s had numerous exams and assignments due in at a similar time so he’s been pretty much unbearable. He’s used all of his annual leave on study days, we went away for a long weekend to the coast last week and I had to take DC out alone because he stayed behind to study. He rarely helps out with DC anymore, I bath and put both to bed while he sits studying. He had yesterday off work to study so literally sat from the minute he got up to the minute we went to bed on his laptop. I can barely get a word in edgeways because he’s constantly discussing uni. It isn’t my field and not something I have much interest in so I usually have no idea what he’s talking about. I think it’s made worse by the fact he doesn’t only want a second degree but wants to graduate with a first again so he’s adamant he has to do his absolute best on every assignment/exam.

I have PND which is only amplifying my resentment towards him. I’m having weekly counselling sessions and the counsellor has said I need more support from him with DC, a GP told me this too. We moved away from my family before DC1 was born so I rarely see them and I don’t have any friends here either, I’m quite isolated atm but return to work PT in September so hoping that will help. I can’t pin the PND solely on him but have been told women who are both isolated from family/friends and who don’t receive any support with their children are more at risk. I didn’t have PND after DC1 so I’m thinking it’s because he isn’t very supportive.

The absolute worst thing is when people make out he’s some kind of messiah because he manages to work, study and has two small children. FIL is forever saying how proud he is and asking him not to ‘burn himself out’ Hmm. He’s chosen to study, it really isn’t necessary at all and nobody has forced him to do this. He also doesn’t do very much with DC or housework so he spends the vast majority of his time studying, none of this would be possible without me constantly picking up the slack.

I’m honestly just fed up and I have told him I don’t see our marriage lasting over the next year. I can’t imagine how he’s going to be with his dissertation, I don’t think I’ll be able to cope. I’m on the verge of ending our marriage right now because I’m struggling to see past this. I know he only has a year left and if I’ve survived the past 2, I should be able to push myself through the next one but I honestly can’t see a way through right now.

Just seeking some general advice, is divorce the only option? I still love him dearly but I really can’t cope with this. I know a lot of women deal with their OH’s working away for months at a time but I wouldn’t be able to, it isn’t what I signed up for really. He could have done this degree when the DC were older and at school, I honestly have no idea why he chose to do it right now when they’re so small and need help with everything. I’m going to spend some time at my Mum’s next week to get a break away from him and clear my head a bit.

OP posts:
PattyPan · 29/07/2021 17:38

Did he want to have the second baby?

Happyclownjuggling · 29/07/2021 17:39

Hi,
Sympathies as this sounds so tough, one aspect that struck me from reading was whether there may be an element of Boarding School Survivor (strategic survival personality) at play?

We had similar when our two kids arrived and my DH really struggled to relate and fit into family life initially - it just felt uncomfortable on a lot of levels and he actively struggled with me needing more from him in the early years. He also compared himself and his achievements to others without seeming to enjoy the home life he had.

We ended up with him working away for much of two years and a clear set up of how he interacted/what he did when he was home.

It was really tough and I'd have read the riot act more with hindsight (at the time I was just passively disappointed and confused). He has got a lot better and now takes equal care of kids and home but took some training.

His friends were great at taking him in hand when I was going to kill him - have you got anyone like that who could help with outlining what he stands to lose? Spotlight on mine's behaviour was very helpful as he likes to look like the good guy!

PropertyFlipper · 29/07/2021 17:39

Honestly OP you sound wornout. And I get that. But all I can think of when I read your post is how many waste of space men there are around - you only need a look at the Relationships board to see that - and you've got yourself someone who is committed and hardworking. I do think you should book a cleaner quicksmart and extra hours with the childminder so you can have more time to yourself. This period of time won't last forever so give yourself some leeway right now.

Pallisers · 29/07/2021 17:41

Instead of fighting each other for scraps you really need to find a way of supporting each other. He needs the support right now but in a few years time you might be expecting it from him.

I would have thought that the woman with PND whose counsellor says she needs more support is the one who "needs the support right now" but maybe that is just me?

OP, you should definitely pay for anything that makes your life easier (doubt very much that your dh will source the cleaner/aupair/helper etc so that will be on you too). And you should probably sit with dh and make a full list of what he is responsible for no matter what deadline is coming up. shame you have to treat your husband/father of your children like a half-wit who can't see what needs to be done but it is very common with men as far as I can see (from MN)

Bythemillpond · 29/07/2021 17:41

DH loves to trawl through LinkedIn comparing himself to people he went to school with and there’s a lot of ‘wow, how is he doing that at our age?! I could earn that much too if I wanted to. I need to work for myself too, it’s probably the only way I’ll get rich.’ He went to an elite boarding school so think that may explain his mentality too

It sounds like even a 6 figure salary won’t be enough.

Ultimately you have to be happy with your life. If you try to compare yourself to others then you will always be miserable.

Short of being Bill Gates (he doesn’t have 1 degree let alone 2) who has so much money he is going to spend the rest of his life giving it all away then someone out there will always be, in the words of Harry Enfield “Considerably Richer Than You”

Maybe the people who are doing well from his school aren’t fannying around applying for university courses and groupon courses and are concentrating on bringing in the money.
Not wasting their time doing a 2nd degree or a Masters.

I agree there was no need to do this degree. What he wants and what he does seem to be at odds with each other.

He wants to earn more but then wastes 3 years of his life and potentially his marriage doing a 2nd degree which won’t really put money in his pocket.

AntiWorkBrigade · 29/07/2021 17:59

@Its90minutestonight

I'm aghast at the number of posters who aren't totally with the OP on this thread, tbh.
Me too. Actually went back and reread all her posts as I thought there must be something I’d missed.

Study is not sacrosanct. Just because he’s not gaming or down the pub does not mean that this level of focus on studying at op’s expense is anything like warranted. People can and do leave relationships where they are relegated to second place below career progression.

Like a pp, I also work for a company that offers degrees fairly liberally because they benefit from the apprenticeship levy so am not prepared to dismiss the op when she presents this degree in the way she has.

beigebrownblue · 29/07/2021 17:59

@TillyTopper

Your main point seems to be that his 2nd degree is for zero benefit and only for himself. However, if his work have agreed to give him a day off a week for it then it must have some payback for them otherwise they wouldn't agree to it. I see his employer has also funded it and unless it's worthwhile no way would they do that.

OP, I do not want to be harsh because you are obviously struggling, but has this blown up in your mind because you are slightly jealous? Perhaps your DH genuinely believes that he needs to earn more money to support 2 DCs (especially as one wasn't planned). Could you get additional help (e.g. cleaner/childcare) to help you through.

My view of this is, it is ok and commendable doing a further qualification, however not to the detriment of others.

If your DH was a student in a student household and no family to look after, then it would not be accepted that his studying for exams, and studying in general would impact on fellow members of the household.

i don't see why it should be any different in the case of your household.

Similar but different comparison perhaps, I am a single parent, completed a second degree in 2018 whilst being a single mother. i often had to get up and get assignments in, getting up at 4.30 a.m.

Not once did i neglect my parenting responsiblities.

This was hard, especially when there was some crisis in the family for example daughter breaking her arm playing football at school.

I just had to negotiate it somehow.

There are measures at uni such as mitigating circumstances, where your DH could apply for an extension for an exam or assignment, if he has medical reasons, or indeed for family reasons.

If i were you, i would lobby very hard indeed for time and resources to be allocated to your improving your OWN qualifications, and working towards a degree of your own.

BEFORE he gets to do another one.

Fair is fair. You are a mother with small children and likely to be falling behind on the personal development and qualifications front for that reasons.

I would step up in this regard and get yourself a degree (or two) of your own.

The issue is here, should you lose your DH for any reason (divorce, death, seperation, disabilty) you need a back up plan.

Kind of similar situation here in my single parent household when I had to put my job plans on hold because I had to home school my daughter through G.C.S.E's .

Ok I did that, and we are through the pandemic but I don't intend to put my own needs on hold forever.

Plan your own degree. You deserve it.

Oblomov21 · 29/07/2021 18:03

Is this a major drip feed? Did you grow up in an abusive family? Have chronic self esteem issues? Because I'm struggling to understand why anyone with normal / high values of self worth would tolerate this nonsense.

Pallisers · 29/07/2021 18:04

@Yelpforhelpp

What would he think if you stopped doing chores and childcare?

The house would fall apart and he knows this. I had a c-section with DC2 and he just couldn’t cope at all. My Mum ended up coming over and cleaned our house for us because he had fallen so far behind we had dishes stacked high with flies buzzing around and he hadn’t done the laundry for over a week. I was readmitted to hospital with wound dehiscence and an infection at 10 days PP and he just couldn’t cope. He’s admitted he can’t do it without me and that I’m the glue keeping everyone together…

We will hire a cleaner when I return to work and I’ll ask the CM for some extra hours so I can have a bit of time to myself. I do love him, just harbouring a lot of built up resentment.

He'd be better off doing a course in home management/economics/ housekeeping. I'm being serious. He is an adult who is incapable of keeping a house even minimally clean and safe. That is a serious defect as an adult - I'd be sorting that out first before getting a second undergrad degree.
Ihavehadenoughalready · 29/07/2021 18:08

To me he sounds manic.

lightand · 29/07/2021 18:11

@Yelpforhelpp

What would he think if you stopped doing chores and childcare?

The house would fall apart and he knows this. I had a c-section with DC2 and he just couldn’t cope at all. My Mum ended up coming over and cleaned our house for us because he had fallen so far behind we had dishes stacked high with flies buzzing around and he hadn’t done the laundry for over a week. I was readmitted to hospital with wound dehiscence and an infection at 10 days PP and he just couldn’t cope. He’s admitted he can’t do it without me and that I’m the glue keeping everyone together…

We will hire a cleaner when I return to work and I’ll ask the CM for some extra hours so I can have a bit of time to myself. I do love him, just harbouring a lot of built up resentment.

Built up resentment will eventually kill your love for him.

I cant remember exactly what you said your counsellor told you to do, but you need to write down the line in the sand as regards what you expect him to do.
It will help to clear your head as well.

I would like to say that the coming month will give you both time. It will, but I suspect he will say he needs to sleep more, ready for Sept.

atm, he is being driven by wanting a lifestyle, 6 figure sums, and to keep up with his peers.

CakeandGo · 29/07/2021 18:12

The problem is, when he applied to do this you didn’t raise a single concern. I acknowledge your points about it being another fantasy but when it became apparent it wasn’t you could have objected.
It was originally 5 years, which probably wouldn’t strike anyone as particularly unreasonable.
He also had one child at the time. He couldn’t have foreseen an unplanned (but wanted) pregnancy. He couldn’t have foreseen PND.
He went for a 1st with his first degree. You know his character. He would probably also want to go for a 1st with this one.

I think when you discuss this with him there needs to be some acknowledgement that some of these issues are/were outside of his control. I certainly wouldn’t go in all guns blazing.

Sunshineaftermorningrain · 29/07/2021 18:13

@Its90minutestonight

I'm aghast at the number of posters who aren't totally with the OP on this thread, tbh.
I have to agree and I think the OP has done really well at calmly explaining what the issue is and hasn’t let herself be waylaid by people insisting that taking two babies on a 120 trip every weekend is the best option.

I hope you get it resolved, Op.

WasThisSexist · 29/07/2021 18:15

OP, you have my sympathy. I did an MSc whilst working a full time, full on job and I was an absolute nightmare. I recognise a lot of what you describe in your DH - pulling all nighters, being overwhelmed, etc. The difference is that I did it whilst single and I honestly often thought to myself that if I had been in a relationship at the time I think it would have ended. And my studying was necessary for my career.

The good news is that if you got on brilliantly during lockdown then you can make things work. Most degrees are now structured to allow flexibility, so he should look into it. Could he phase it out over a longer period? And getting domestic help is a good idea too. Mainly though, he needs to organise himself better. There were plenty of working parents

inthesark · 29/07/2021 18:17

@Yelpforhelpp

What would he think if you stopped doing chores and childcare?

The house would fall apart and he knows this. I had a c-section with DC2 and he just couldn’t cope at all. My Mum ended up coming over and cleaned our house for us because he had fallen so far behind we had dishes stacked high with flies buzzing around and he hadn’t done the laundry for over a week. I was readmitted to hospital with wound dehiscence and an infection at 10 days PP and he just couldn’t cope. He’s admitted he can’t do it without me and that I’m the glue keeping everyone together…

We will hire a cleaner when I return to work and I’ll ask the CM for some extra hours so I can have a bit of time to myself. I do love him, just harbouring a lot of built up resentment.

And this is the point where I have completely lost any last remaining vestiges of sympathy for him.

Does he want to live in the 1950s? Did he mention this to you at any point? What is he actually bringing to your partnership?

More practically, this is not someone who is suddenly going to take up any of the slack. He doesn't know how, and he doesn't even listen to you when you try to talk about things.

So you have a choice. You set up a system where you buy in lots of help: cleaners, child-minders, ironing services, whatever it takes as a way of managing him. Or you make him leave. Because he is not going to change.

WasThisSexist · 29/07/2021 18:17

Posted to soon

There were plenty of working parents on my course and the way they balanced things was by being super organised (unlike me). That’s what you sign up for when you decide to combine work, family and studying.

The fact that your DH needs a first so badly makes it sound as though he’s trying to prove himself to others. That and the comparison to old school friends. He should really try to find his intrinsic motivation because the other path is a never ending cycle of not being good enough.

Blueskytoday06 · 29/07/2021 18:19

In 2019 he decided he wanted to return to uni to get a second degree relevant to his career. It wasn’t necessary at all, it won’t further his career prospects within the company as far as I can see. It was more him wanting to further his knowledge within the field. He decided this in July 2019, his boss amazingly agreed and by August 2019 he had been accepted. When he mentioned it to me I honestly just thought he’d back out of it like he did with everything else but to my surprise, he didn’t.

OP at this point did you voice your concerns and tell him that you didn't want him to embark on the course ?

If so, what did he say ?

I think if you were to divorce in his final year, it would fail his course. Or I don't see the outcome would be any different, he will still prioritise completing over seeing the children except now you'd have to uproot the children, find somewhere else to live, finance possibly an issue. I'm not advocating staying if you are desperately unhappy but if you are doing this just to shake him up I'd explore other ways first.

SixesAndEights · 29/07/2021 18:20

I have to agree and I think the OP has done really well at calmly explaining what the issue is and hasn’t let herself be waylaid by people insisting that taking two babies on a 120 trip every weekend is the best option.

What people have even suggested that let alone said it's the best option?! Hmm

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/07/2021 18:22

I am also aghast at some of these posts. His degree definitely sounds like a project in self actualisation when his dw is on the bottom rungs of the Maslow hierarchy of needs.

TenShortStories · 29/07/2021 18:22

Sounds really hard, big sympathies. I totally understand your point of view, that that this is basically a vanity project that is leaving you to support all of family life by yourself.

What's his point of view though? Does missing out on the kids feel like a massive sacrifice that he is sucking up temporarily in order to better your futures (even if you don't agree it's needed)? Or is he quite happy to slink off and not really be part of their lives, all under the guise of Very Important Studying?

I can't tell which kind of man he is from your description. If he's the first then no way would I throw away the marriage. You may be on a different page right now, but lots of good communication (which you've probably not had enough of because of tiny children who are always a strain) paired with riding out the degree and there'd be every chance of a happy future. If he's the second type of man then ugh, that's much harder.

Also, given his tough boarding school and inadequate parents might there be some deep issues with a need to be a high achiever? Anything other than the top grade is unthinkable and he'll drive himself into the ground to get it? Obviously that doesn't make it remotely OK to dump on you, but sometimes we don't realise the impact of crap from our childhoods until we're waist deep in it, struggling, and in need of help to make sense of it. It may be way off the mark but thought I'd mention just in case.

ToffeeForEveryone · 29/07/2021 18:27

Really surprised this is split opinion.

You shouldn't have to beg your husband to do more when your doctor and your therapist have both said clearly that being left to manage on your own is causing you ongoing health problems.

It's not just about whether the degree is optional, or whether his boss will be pissed off, or whether you could get cleaners or help from family. There is a very clear message here about the extent of support you can expect from your DH when you need it most.

Unless it would negatively impact the family finances to an unmanageable level (i.e. quickly create more problems), there is no justification for him not cutting back now to prioritise your health. Literally doctors orders. He could cut the study or cut back on work.

This is really hard OP. You really do deserve better and your DH is taking advantage. Hope he listens Flowers

Oblomov21 · 29/07/2021 18:29

Does he have some sort of problem? Emotionally? ADHD, ASD? Why would he not be able to cope? Need mum to come round because He hadn't done the washing up and there are flies flying around and he hadn't put on a load of washing on for a week.

I'm sorry but that's just not normal.

SeaToSki · 29/07/2021 18:35

If your DH is anything like my DH (an engineer as well) he will do much better with lists of tasks written down. I can ask him to do or help with something until I am blue in the face, but it doesnt really register with him unless he has a list.

I would suggest a timetable for the household and another parallel two, one for each of your personal time

The household one covers timeslots when each of you is doing household jobs and his jobs are spelled out in each time slot (I am thinking you dont need it as prescriptive as that for you)

His personal one covers his work hours, study hours and household hours. I would suggest you get him to add some hours for ‘personal time’ then when he wants to do more studying, you can suggest he eats into that rather than his household time. Yours should include some personal time when you are out of the house doing something, anything, and he is on duty looking after the kids and loading the dishwasher etc.

I then suggest you get him to sign a written commitment stating that he will prioritise his household hours above studying, as his marriage is the most important thing in his life and his commitment to you through spending time with the children, you and helping with the house demonstrates that importance. Then print it out and stick it on the fridge. If he backslides, just point at it. Visuals are better than words.

If he wont commit, then you have a concrete data point.

reader12 · 29/07/2021 18:35

He sounds completely selfish and you sound at the end of your text her. Tell him to step up and do his fair share or you’re off.

Ormally · 29/07/2021 18:38

I have been having some counselling conversations, because I'm the one who would like to go back to do a part time course of study that is not connected with the field I am in, but may allow me to move beyond the job I am doing. It's a reasonable job with a salary that I am ok with, but I would love to be doing something I actually want to do as well as where it works with the family (and this could probably also mean a house move eventually). Doing the current thing in lockdown exposed everything that is unfulfilling and wrong for me about it, even though I was lucky to keep the work.

I also have friends where the DH, under 40 and with 2 small children at the time, became seriously ill and had to step back from his career path. The treatment and recovery was around 2 years, not as long as a degree, but since returning to his old workplace he is also feeling 'passed over' and not viewed seriously for promotion because of the time out he's had. He is dedicated and very well qualified; it seems to be much more glaring when comparing to other male workers who didn't have to deal with his personal and family situation, and who could put in all the long hours, overnighters and unspoken social 'fit' that is much easier to do if you only have yourself to look after. Potentially keeping your DH's hand in, with the support of his company, is a wise move longer-term, and having the accountability to it will help with his focus.

The counselling practice I am connected with gives the following summary as the human needs. Where do both of you individually sit on it? What need is (e.g.) the degree meeting? If you are both able to meet these needs as they apply to you as well as to the family, plural, you may feel less resentful of each other.

Security: A sense of safety and security; safe territory; an environment in which people can live without experiencing excessive fear so that they can develop healthily.

Autonomy and control: A sense of autonomy and control over what happens around and to us.

Status: A sense of status - being accepted and valued in the various social groups we belong to.

Privacy: Time and space enough to reflect on and consolidate our experiences.

Attention: Receiving attention from others, but also giving it; a form of essential nutrition that fuels the development of each individual, family and culture.