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Original poster

Feeling so sad about DB and SIL

245 replies

porkincider · 30/06/2021 22:58

I have 2dc who, until Covid hit last year used to see my brother and his wife at least once a month. They live just over an hour away, are absolutely brilliant with DC and DC just love them to pieces. I really enjoy their company too and we’d always have lovely days together when we saw each other. Throughout the pandemic he’s been sending them presents and daft letters and comics that he’s made for them but he never wanted to speak to them on Zoom or anything.

They’ve been trying for dc for a while and at the beginning of last year found out that sadly it’s unlikely to happen even with IVF, although they’re still going to give IVF a go as they’re entitled to one round and want to do it before SIL is over the age limit. Since finding this out they’ve been understandably heartbroken but said that they’ve actually quite benefited from lockdown as they’ve been able to spend lots of time together just the two of them.

Since restrictions have relaxed I’ve been contacting them to see when they’d like to meet up but they’ve kept putting me off. Eventually at the weekend brother tells me that he’s sorry but he’s love to see me but he can’t face seeing my dc at the moment as children upset SIL too much. I asked if I could meet up with just him (single parent, one child with ASD and absolutely no one I could leave them with) but he said that he’d find it too upsetting too.

I asked if he thinks he’ll be happy to see them in future and he said that while him and his wife have hope of a child, no matter how faint he can’t see a point where he’d be comfortable around my dc. He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them. I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. Just wait until DC stop asking about him and let them enjoy the comics he sends them and nothing else? Wait for a decade until they’ve given up hope of having a child and then the relationship will continue?

I’d love for them to have a baby more than anything but I don’t know how to deal with it. It certainly means, for the foreseeable future at least, that I just can’t see my brother anymore as I have no one to have my kids.

Any advice? Just wait it out and wish them the best? It’s all just so sad.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 01/07/2021 12:02

Why are you replying in a rude way?

I don’t think my reply was rude. I think you’ve added a tone to what I wrote that wasn’t there. Confused

EL8888 · 01/07/2021 12:12

@PurpleDaisies exactly, none of this is fair and it sucks. It’s not fair brother and SIL have fertility issues. It’s not fair they get only 1 round and in other parts of the country people get 2 or 3

BIoodyStupidJohnson · 01/07/2021 12:24

It sounds like you put your foot in it a bit asking him if your kids annoyed him but I think you get that. Otherwise, it's just a sad situation all round. Life isn't fair and sometimes shit things happen to nice people.

DH and I have been where your brother and his wife are.

The awful truth is that sometimes, just being around the result of other people's apparent fecundity is gut-wrenchingly painful.

Both DH and I have reacted the way he's reacted to you in the past. And even now I've found that I have to limit how much exposure I have to children, even those I'm related to. Things improved with time, though.

Maybe it's selfish. Maybe it's necessarily selfish for me/us, I don't know. I do know that my patience for/with kids has diminished considerably since we established that we wouldn't be having our own. So maybe that's changed for him/them, too.

In terms of advice: I think you had it in your last sentence:
Just wait it out and wish them the best

Flowers
youvegottenminuteslynn · 01/07/2021 12:27

@PerciphonePuma

To follow on from my previous post - You only have to turn the TV on to see children or step outside your front door and there's children walking with their parents/playing outside. Perhaps he should contact the council and petition to ban all children from his street and from TV?!

Those who think I'm being ridiculous and stupid - How is it much different? He doesn't have to spend extended periods of time with the child/children or have them on his lap. That's absolutely understandable. I DO have empathy for their struggle and I can't imagine how hard it is. However it does not warrant cutting a child off!!!!!!

They aren't cutting them off though, are they... so that comment doesn't make sense. He's staying in touch in a different way while they navigate grieving something they desperately want. It's unlikely to last forever. He hasn't said he never wants to see them again. He's dealt with this gently and sadly, not angrily and cruelly. OP herself can now see that.
Twistered · 01/07/2021 12:49

I still they are being incredibly self centred. To avoid their own nieces and nephews because they haven't been able to conceive is just ridiculous. I hear your hurt over this OP. And I totally disagree with anyone on this thread giving you a hard time. YOU have done nothing wrong and are perfectly right to be upset and hurt x

PurpleDaisies · 01/07/2021 13:10

YOU have done nothing wrong

Not even suggesting to the brother that he didn’t want to see the children because they were too annoying?

Twistered · 01/07/2021 13:36

@PurpleDaisies

YOU have done nothing wrong

Not even suggesting to the brother that he didn’t want to see the children because they were too annoying?

no there is nothing wrong with that. I dont think she suggested it at all. OP has said her kids can be a bit much and was just checking if that's what her brother thought because she could understand if that is what he was thinking. OP did nothing wrong and people have just piled on her. Infertility doesn't give anyone the right to trample over anyone else's feelings and decide to cut family members out. OP is genuinely upset she won't see her brother and that her kids won't know their uncle. Completely understandable.

I don't understand the pile on here I honestly don't.

Moiraroseswigs · 01/07/2021 13:53

DH and I are currently dealing with infertility, have been through IVF and a recent miscarriage. That's bad enough, I can't imagine how they're feeling after being told it's unlikely to happen for them.

I can understand why you're hurt, OP, but please give them time. For me it's up and down, there are days where I'm ok with being around children and days where I avoid it for my sanity's sake. I find it particularly hard being around DH's nieces and nephews. They adore him and seeing how naturally good he is with them makes me not only feel sad for myself but also feel like a massive inadequate failure for not providing him with his own child. On the other hand, for my DH spending time with his nieces and nephews doesn't bother him but he gets upset by one of his friends complaining about his young children and being annoyed that they are impacting his social life. Different people are upset by different things and comments on here saying "I had fertility problems and it didn't bother me" don't mean anything, everyone reacts differently.

I can absolutely understand why you're a little hurt but please try not to take it personally, they've had shocking news. Just give them some time.

CurbsideProphet · 01/07/2021 14:04

@Twistered there is nothing self centred or ridiculous about the pain and misery of infertility. Every couple needs to deal with it in their own way and own time. It is heartbreaking when people start making assumptions and ridicule those of us going through it.

ForeverAintEnough3 · 01/07/2021 14:22

@porkincider the situation isn’t ‘desperately said for all of us’ it’s desperately sad for them. They may never ever become parents, have their own children, no parties, no Santa, no grandchildren, no school. Their whole life as they imagined it turned in it’s head and left to a sad and lonely existence.

It’s really not the same as you wanting your kids to be close to their uncle. Plenty of children aren’t close to their uncles and aunts. It’s hardly a life changing terrible thing.

Stop making it all about you.

ForeverAintEnough3 · 01/07/2021 14:25

@Twistered why is it ridiculous? Do explain! Are you one of those people who believes people severely impacted and damaged by infertility should stuff their own feelings down to accommodate people who are happy with their lovely children and to damage their mental health to do so?

Original poster
porkincider · 01/07/2021 14:40

foreveraintenough3 lots of people aren’t close to their brothers either, but I am. It is life changing for me to no longer have my brother and sister in law in my life. I’m entitled to grieve the loss of this relationship.

OP posts:
Bibidy · 01/07/2021 14:44

@Twistered

I still they are being incredibly self centred. To avoid their own nieces and nephews because they haven't been able to conceive is just ridiculous. I hear your hurt over this OP. And I totally disagree with anyone on this thread giving you a hard time. YOU have done nothing wrong and are perfectly right to be upset and hurt x
I agree that OP hasn't done anything wrong, but I don't think her brother or SIL can be described as 'self-centred' for doing what they can to alleviate some of their pain.

At this moment in time, they are struggling with their own hurt and just need some space. That's not say they won't ever see OP or her children again.

Both sides of this have valid reasons to feel how they feel, but no one is in the wrong.

YelloYelloYello · 01/07/2021 14:45

It is life changing for me to no longer have my brother and sister in law in my life.

This isn’t what is happening.

Bibidy · 01/07/2021 14:45

@porkincider

foreveraintenough3 lots of people aren’t close to their brothers either, but I am. It is life changing for me to no longer have my brother and sister in law in my life. I’m entitled to grieve the loss of this relationship.
OP, is there no way you can meet with your brother without your kids for now? Even when they are at school or something?

You don't have to lose your whole relationship with him over this.

YelloYelloYello · 01/07/2021 14:47

I don't understand the pile on here I honestly don't.

@Twistered perhaps try reading the replies properly and take each point into proper consideration. It’s difficult trying to imagine an experience that you don’t have yourself, but try putting yourself in the brothers shoes.

Twistered · 01/07/2021 14:49

@YelloYelloYello

I don't understand the pile on here I honestly don't.

@Twistered perhaps try reading the replies properly and take each point into proper consideration. It’s difficult trying to imagine an experience that you don’t have yourself, but try putting yourself in the brothers shoes.

try reading the replies yourself. I said in an earlier post I do have experience of this.
youvegottenminuteslynn · 01/07/2021 14:59

It is life changing for me to no longer have my brother and sister in law in my life.

That isn't what's happening though OP.

ForeverAintEnough3 · 01/07/2021 15:10

@porkincider

foreveraintenough3 lots of people aren’t close to their brothers either, but I am. It is life changing for me to no longer have my brother and sister in law in my life. I’m entitled to grieve the loss of this relationship.
Sorry bit didnt your brother say they both can’t meet at the moment as that’s what you said in your OP. Bit dramatic to then move this to you grieving them never being in your life. They are the ones who are actually grieving a real loss. Maybe think about them instead of yourself??
potatoocity · 01/07/2021 15:17

@PurpleDaisies

Adopting a child that already exists but is not wanted or not able to be cared for is totally different to asking someone else to go through all the risks of pregnancy just so you can have a child.

Sure, and OP has the right to say no.

She's going on about "morals" as if she's being forced or coerced. If they asked and she said "no" to an altruistic arrangement, then that's that.

Original poster
porkincider · 01/07/2021 15:33

potatocity someone asked if I would consider offering surrogacy. I said I wouldn’t as both my brother and I consider it a barbaric practice. I’m in no way suggesting there is any coercion whatsoever, I was just answering a question. Please stop making things up.

OP posts:
Original poster
porkincider · 01/07/2021 15:36

foreveraintenough3 he said he can’t meet while they are still trying. Considering his wife is early 30’s this could be a decade so, yes, it’s certainly a loss of a relationship for the foreseeable future at least. And as I’ve said time and time again, of course I am thinking of them and doing everything that they are asking. I’m not going to pretend that the situation isn’t painful for me too though, although in a very different way, and I don’t think it’s making it all about me to say this.

OP posts:
Original poster
porkincider · 01/07/2021 15:39

bibidy not really, sadly. My 5yo with autism is only at school 3 hours a day, dbro is an hours drive away and doesn’t drive himself.

OP posts:
YelloYelloYello · 01/07/2021 15:41

Yes I saw that you said this @Twistered
I agree... cutting family children off because they haven't been able to have kids is incredibly self centered and I speak from experience.
That doesn’t mean you understand exactly what the brother and his partner are going through.

Also, you’ve mentioned twice now about how the brother is ‘cutting his family off’. That isn’t what is happening. He still wants to see his sister. And given time he’ll be strong enough to see the children again too. All he needs is a bit of time and compassion.

BoofyBoo · 01/07/2021 15:42

This is so heartbreaking for them and a few people have shown that you cannot completely understand what this is like unless you have gone through it. To not be able to have children means loss on so many levels including the loss of easy relationships with family (where cousins play together for example, because there are no cousins) or simply being able to be the person you would like to be … I doubt your brother wants to be like this, not your SIL.
To those who have said they have gone through similar and didn’t react like this - you aren’t them with their back story, their life around them, their personalities - people have to be allowed to deal with this crap hand in a way that works for them and to see people on their terms.
I can see why your brother got so upset at your comment - he clearly adores your kids and hates the whole situation including the part where it seems they don’t care or like your children.
I wouldn’t assume this is forever, from my own experience they will go through a journey. Even if that’s painful and doesn’t involve them having their own happy ending they probably will change what they can handle … but they have to be allowed to do that on their own terms and not forced or it will worsen the divide and their sense of isolation. Believe me, they want things to be different again and to be able to see your children, whatever their personal outcome. They will work towards that but probably feel very strongly about all kinds of things at the moment. I hope it gets better for all of you x

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