Feeling so sad about DB and SIL

[porkincider]

I have 2dc who, until Covid hit last year used to see my brother and his wife at least once a month. They live just over an hour away, are absolutely brilliant with DC and DC just love them to pieces. I really enjoy their company too and we’d always have lovely days together when we saw each other. Throughout the pandemic he’s been sending them presents and daft letters and comics that he’s made for them but he never wanted to speak to them on Zoom or anything.

They’ve been trying for dc for a while and at the beginning of last year found out that sadly it’s unlikely to happen even with IVF, although they’re still going to give IVF a go as they’re entitled to one round and want to do it before SIL is over the age limit. Since finding this out they’ve been understandably heartbroken but said that they’ve actually quite benefited from lockdown as they’ve been able to spend lots of time together just the two of them.

Since restrictions have relaxed I’ve been contacting them to see when they’d like to meet up but they’ve kept putting me off. Eventually at the weekend brother tells me that he’s sorry but he’s love to see me but he can’t face seeing my dc at the moment as children upset SIL too much. I asked if I could meet up with just him (single parent, one child with ASD and absolutely no one I could leave them with) but he said that he’d find it too upsetting too.

I asked if he thinks he’ll be happy to see them in future and he said that while him and his wife have hope of a child, no matter how faint he can’t see a point where he’d be comfortable around my dc. He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them. I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. Just wait until DC stop asking about him and let them enjoy the comics he sends them and nothing else? Wait for a decade until they’ve given up hope of having a child and then the relationship will continue?

I’d love for them to have a baby more than anything but I don’t know how to deal with it. It certainly means, for the foreseeable future at least, that I just can’t see my brother anymore as I have no one to have my kids.

Any advice? Just wait it out and wish them the best? It’s all just so sad.

They're being silly, I'm sorry. They will have to see children wherever you go - they shouldn't punish you bc you have dc's.

I get it must be very hard on them but they sound childish and dramatic.

@YanTanTethera123 Are you having a laugh?! HOW am I any of those things?! He's rejecting OP's child with special needs! I'm sympathetic to their infertility but the decent thing to do, is to put your feelings to one side and put the child first!!!! I'm disabled and cry every day that I cannot run around with my child and won't live to see my girl grow up (she has no father anymore either) so does that mean I can refuse to see any other healthy parent? Then declare anyone with any issue with this, as callous & insensitive???

So very sorry to read this. My late husband's brother and wife also couldn't have kids, and they cut us out of their life completely. I hope you can maintain your relationship.

*wherever THEY go!

All those saying the children’s feelings need to come first etc, can you not put yourself for one minute in the shoes of the couple who potentially can’t ever have those children who you are so strongly defending, who’s feelings you would put above anything, who you love more than anything?

Because those feelings you have for your own children is something the OPs brother and SIL may never be able to experience, if they can’t have their own child.

The staggering insensitivity of so many replies is so sad, and shows that there is such little real understanding for those never able to have a family.

just give them some time. It may be they come around, it may be that this might affect their relationships with your DC forever but this is their burden to bear. infertility is incredibly cruel, not just for those directly going through it but for family too.

To follow on from my previous post - You only have to turn the TV on to see children or step outside your front door and there's children walking with their parents/playing outside. Perhaps he should contact the council and petition to ban all children from his street and from TV?!

Those who think I'm being ridiculous and stupid - How is it much different? He doesn't have to spend extended periods of time with the child/children or have them on his lap. That's absolutely understandable. I DO have empathy for their struggle and I can't imagine how hard it is. However it does not warrant cutting a child off!!!!!!

I'm saddened to read of their situation and agree with others who suggest giving some time.

Sounds like they are really suffering OP. I think you should try to see it from their perspective and give them the time they both need.

Sounds like they really love your kids so will be missing them too. It's very sad.

I think it's fairly likely they won't feel like this forever and no one can put a time on this.

You're thinking way too much about yourself and your dc in this than your brother and sil who are having to deal with the fact they may never have children. Yes it's sad for your family that currently their uncle and aunt don't want to see them, can you maybe stop for a second to think why? How would you feel if the situation was reversed? You desperately wanted children, but are facing the possibility of never having any.

Then you went and were highly insensitive towards him, asking if they were too much hard work? Jesus, I think they'd be happy with the hard work if it meant they could have their own kids.

Apologise to them a lot for your insensitive remarks and leave them alone. Be there for them when they want to talk or want to visit. Talk to your own children and explain to them that their aunt and uncle are going through a rough time at the moment and will see them eventually, that they still love them. It's not that hard.

Wow. There are some insanely insensitive people on this thread. As an infertile woman, you cannot get away from children / families / parents in our environment today - if your DB and SIL can control a tiny bit of that exposure for their own MH, good for them. Your child does not trump their MH

It's very shocking to find out you're going to struggle to have a baby. Unless you've been there you have absolutely no idea how it feels. You can discuss it for eternity but the pain is so personal.

Their initial reaction is that they need time away from your DC. This may well change. There is nothing to be gained from making them feel guilty about it.

My BIL and SIL have made my DH feel horrendous for prioritising me and our (unfortunately unsuccessful) IVF procedures. They wanted him to be very interested and involved in their pregnancy. It has tarnished how I feel about them.

Your DC will be fine. I've barely seen my nieces over the past 12 months. When I have seen them they've been absolutely normal. Children have become used to not seeing people on a daily basis. So long as you don't make a big deal about it they will be fine.

@AnneLovesGilbert

Who says they’re cutting OP’s children forever. During this extremely shitty last 18 months, in the midst of their own personal nightmare, he’s continued to maintain a connection with his nephews by sending cards and gifts and even making a massive effort by drawing them comics.

They’ve gone above and beyond and for now, while they’re dealing with the uncertainty and pain of infertility, they’re taking a step back.

The lack of compassion in some of these replies is shocking though not surprising.

This

So shocking the lack of compassion here for a couple in a very dark place at the moment. A couple who have continued to show their love, and that they're thinking of their DNs, but can't bring themselves to see them.

I can absolutely see why it would be hard for them. And even if I can't see it, that's not the point. This is their feeling right now and who are we to say they are right or wrong?

I don't get those suggesting that the op's children's feelings should come above the DB /DSIL. Of course they shouldn't. DB and DSIL have to do what they can right now to manage their situation and to protect their own wellbeing. They are doing as much as they are able to stay in touch with the DNs. If the DC are genuinly asking to see their uncle and aunt, then then it's for the op to manage their expectations and any upset (which I think will be much less than people assume it will be).

Loads of people don't get to see their family regularly, and maintain happy relationships that they pick up when they can see each other again.

I think that you have to apologise to your brother. Clearly, the reason he can't face seeing your kids is because it is heartbreaking to be around kids when they want their own so much and can't have them. Not because they are hard work.

Give them time and tell them you understand and build a life for yourself. Make friends that you can see so you don't rely on your brother.

And don't worry about your kids.

My kids love their aunties and uncles and cousins and grandparents but only see most of them every few years because we live in different countries.

Some really self centred people on this thread who seem to think that because their children are the centre of their universe they should also have to be the centre of other peoples universe as well, even those who are grieving the fact they may never have that experience themselves.

@Jesskir89 l would hardly say argumentative, l am just am challenging what you said. Thinking and being told you probably can’t have children, isn’t the same thing as having fertility issues but then actually conceiving. Your mindset is most likely different to theirs. The original posters brother and SIL might have their own child with the 1 round of IVF but might not. You can never tell as there as so many unknowns. I was told by doctors l would probably conceive naturally and never have. 2 rounds of IVF haven’t worked either

@PerciphonePuma they’re not ‘cutting a child off’ they just need time to cope with an incredibly harrowing situation: they are literally right in the midst of it.

@LawnFever not sure if you have been on these kind of posts before but this is how they usually are with a world of insensitivity. The original posters lack of awareness is something to behold. If it wasn’t so cruel then l think it would be good for brother and SIL to read this thread and see the level of self absorption

Sadly lm not surprised to go to bed last night and then wake up to more insensitive / lacking in awareness posts. Surprised we have got to page 6 without references to why don’t they adopt. Classic thoughtless infertility bingo. But at least surrogacy and judgements about that have been covered. No IVF judgements yet. Still waiting for why not get a pet or their nieces / nephews should be enough!

Infertility is awful, truly awful. And everyone deals with it in their own way. If at present your DB and SIL feel unable to see your children then you need to respect that. It doesn't mean they are rejecting your children, it doesn't mean the end of your relationship with your brother - but it does mean that at this time, its too hard for them.

I would suspect that from your brother's response to your comment that they've newly had bad news or something has happened. Another day he might have responded differently but he's obviously really hurting. And guilt on top of sadness and heartbreak isn't good for anyone.

That being said OP, I understand that you want to see your brother, I understand why you might want him to be involved with your kids, as it seems that you are very family orientated, but for this moment you really just need to give them some time to process their own situation.

@Jesskir89

Wow! They're being very unreasonable. I was trying for my ds for over 2.5 years, went through all sorts of tests, surgery and fertility treatment. I wouldn't dream of not seeing nieces and nephews.... in my opinion op they're being over the top. I'm sorry to hear this. It is heartbreaking what they're going through, but no reason your dc should suffer and you!

This isn’t serious surely 🥴

Give them time, their feelings trump yours in this scenario

Why should their feelings trump the OPs though? MN is weird about treating infertility grief as a special sort of sacrosanct that trumps everything and excuses any bad and hurtful behaviour.

PurpleDaisies

@Bythemillpond
What do you mean by “you aren’t really asking

Whether you accept a surrogate offer or ask for it, you are still effectively asking someone else to go through all that risk for you. They wouldn’t be doing it otherwise

People do ask female family members and friends to be surrogates. Yes, they can say no but it’s a very awkward situation to be in and it can make relationships very difficult going forward

For the person I know the family member was someone who positively bloomed during pregnancies and got pregnant very easily and went through all her pregnancies and births with no complications. It was always on the table that she would do this as for her it wasn’t a huge hardship and the risks were minimal and her Dh was completely on board as to him it was about the future of the extended family going forward. Yes the couple did ask but they knew the answer before asking.

This is all moot here anyway. No one has raised the topic of surrogacy until a poster brought it up

It was op saying how that both her and her db would never go down that route, but forgets that her SIL would have a say on the matter and faced with a wife who wanted to try the surrogacy route as being the only way they could have their own child I was wondering whether the db might not find it so morally wrong.

I’m amazed at some of these responses - the lack of empathy is appalling.
They have said what they need for the moment. They’ve not said it’s forever. Just apologise and step back for a month and then gently get back in touch.
And I’m sorry to those saying you can’t cut contact with a child to protect your own MH. You can if you want to. It might be selfish but it might be needed more than you know. All sorts of things can push people to the edge (and over).