Feeling so sad about DB and SIL

[porkincider]

I have 2dc who, until Covid hit last year used to see my brother and his wife at least once a month. They live just over an hour away, are absolutely brilliant with DC and DC just love them to pieces. I really enjoy their company too and we’d always have lovely days together when we saw each other. Throughout the pandemic he’s been sending them presents and daft letters and comics that he’s made for them but he never wanted to speak to them on Zoom or anything.

They’ve been trying for dc for a while and at the beginning of last year found out that sadly it’s unlikely to happen even with IVF, although they’re still going to give IVF a go as they’re entitled to one round and want to do it before SIL is over the age limit. Since finding this out they’ve been understandably heartbroken but said that they’ve actually quite benefited from lockdown as they’ve been able to spend lots of time together just the two of them.

Since restrictions have relaxed I’ve been contacting them to see when they’d like to meet up but they’ve kept putting me off. Eventually at the weekend brother tells me that he’s sorry but he’s love to see me but he can’t face seeing my dc at the moment as children upset SIL too much. I asked if I could meet up with just him (single parent, one child with ASD and absolutely no one I could leave them with) but he said that he’d find it too upsetting too.

I asked if he thinks he’ll be happy to see them in future and he said that while him and his wife have hope of a child, no matter how faint he can’t see a point where he’d be comfortable around my dc. He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them. I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. Just wait until DC stop asking about him and let them enjoy the comics he sends them and nothing else? Wait for a decade until they’ve given up hope of having a child and then the relationship will continue?

I’d love for them to have a baby more than anything but I don’t know how to deal with it. It certainly means, for the foreseeable future at least, that I just can’t see my brother anymore as I have no one to have my kids.

Any advice? Just wait it out and wish them the best? It’s all just so sad.

I think there's insensitivity on both sides but nobody is wrong-you picking and picking for a reason when already provided and them for ghosting your kids. Perhaps over time they will change their minds or they will have a breakthrough with fertility and perhaps with time and maturity your child can be left with a child minder

Well you force them to meet up. I'm sure that will go well.

Or you could let them come to terms with things in their own time.

Nobody said forever.

Op has come on looking for opinions. Some people on here need to realise different people have different opinions that were all allowed to share on an open forum

@MyCatDribbles

Just give them time OP. You cannot know the anguish they’re in.

I agree. And their stance on seeing your kids likely won't last forever. I only say that as I know my mum felt this way before she adopted me, it was physically painful for her to be around pregnant people even those who she absolutely adored. Give them time.

@AlternativePerspective

They’re being incredibly unreasonable.

Yes not being able to have children is very unfortunate, and they will no doubt be sad about that, but to cut other family children off forever because of it Is unreasonable. What are they going to do? Live like recluses for the rest of their lives in case they happen to see another child while out and about?

Sorry but as harsh as it is sometimes people just can’t have children, but life goes on.

The children haven’t done anything to deserve to be treated this way.

They aren't meaning it will be forever though I don't think. They are grieving something they desperately want and said they 'can't imagine' being around the children of others again. I think in future when I'm grieving for my mum (hopefully she'll live forever though, obviously) I will think there will never be a day I'll be able to sit with a friend and their mum who are close. But I also think that will change as time goes on. I think they can't imagine it now, but OP needs to give them time and space as it's likely to change at some point.

I feel sorry for your children. They won't understand why they're suddenly not in contact.

Who says they’re cutting OP’s children forever. During this extremely shitty last 18 months, in the midst of their own personal nightmare, he’s continued to maintain a connection with his nephews by sending cards and gifts and even making a massive effort by drawing them comics.

They’ve gone above and beyond and for now, while they’re dealing with the uncertainty and pain of infertility, they’re taking a step back.

The lack of compassion in some of these replies is shocking though not surprising.

And the kids won’t be kids forever.

These children have aged 18 months since they last saw their aunt and uncle. Children do a lot of growing in that time.

So give it a couple more years and the kids won’t even remember them any more.

@MyCatDribbles

I had a stillbirth last year and a miscarriage in January and I struggled seeing my niece and nephews throughout this time

I'm so, so sorry

@grapewine

I feel sorry for your children. They won't understand why they're suddenly not in contact.

Thankfully they’re not suddenly not in contact then…

He’s still writing to them and staying in touch. No one has abandoned OP’s children. Her brother just doesn’t want to meet up for a while.

Thank you for advice. I will of course give them time and I’m certainly not planning on forcing them to see my kids notonthestairs. I’m just sad for them, myself and my kids that we can’t maintain the relationship that we have done in the past.

I’ll apologise to him for upsetting him by suggesting he didn’t want to see them. At the time I was just confused as originally he just said it was because SIL would find it hard but then when o suggested seeing him alone he didn’t want to do that either. My kids are bloody hard work so I’d completely understand if he said he found them too much at the moment while he’s feeling fragile but it’s all kids for the duration of the time they’re planning on trying for dc. SIL is only 34 so this could be a decade, although obviously it would be amazing if they did have a baby. But it was absolutely insensitive of me to suggest that. I’ve never struggled with fertility so I can’t imagine the anguish and just went for the option that made sense to me.

I think there's insensitivity on both sides but nobody is wrong-you picking and picking for a reason when already provided and them for ghosting your kids

They haven’t ghosted the kids. They’re in contact in a different way.

He is right in the middle of it. He can’t see a time when he will be able to be around children because he still has hope. He isn’t even really grieving yet. That won’t come until they stop trying.

Give him time. He will either find a way to grow his family or find a way to accept the life he has. Then he will be able to come back to you and the kids. Please don’t cut him off from the connection that does exist in the meantime. It’s not much, but it’s a foundation for the future.

alternativeperspective that’s what I’m particularly sad about. Dc are only 5 and 8 and 5yo already seems to think of my brother as an idea, rather than a fixed person iyswim.

He’s still writing to them and staying in touch

It's not the same though, is it? But they have to grieve their way, obviously. I'm not saying anything else.

@grapewine

I feel sorry for your children. They won't understand why they're suddenly not in contact.

Don't feel sorry for them, he is staying in touch just not meeting up while they are dealing with their own grief.

He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them

OP literally said this in her first post - he's not just disappearing from their lives.

@MyCatDribbles I'm so sorry for your loss

@AlternativePerspective

And the kids won’t be kids forever.

These children have aged 18 months since they last saw their aunt and uncle. Children do a lot of growing in that time.

So give it a couple more years and the kids won’t even remember them any more.

Copying and pasting this from another reply I just wrote because im lazy

Don't feel sorry for them, he is staying in touch just not meeting up while they are dealing with their own grief.

He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them

OP literally said this in her first post - he's not just disappearing from their lives.

Loses*

I think this is all just so heartbreaking - for both sides.

I do think that the brother has been a little selfish not even considering the impact on his nephews. And no, sending comics through the post isn't "keeping in contact" to a child - the relationship will be lost if this drags on for years. But if he can't face seeing them, he can't face seeing them. That's that really.

I guess I just would have been hurt that he's not acknowledged the impact his decision will have on anyone else - not that it would have changed anything, but he's failing to recognise that there's two children who are going to be suffering a loss. But grief can make you quite self-absorbed, as it's hard to think about another perspective when you're consumed by those feelings of sadness and loss. That sounds like where he's at right now. And that's not a criticism of him.

Things are understandably very raw for him right now. All you can do is step back and give him space. Maybe he'll come round, maybe he won't.

I hope you've got other family around you OP

It is hard for you and your children not to see your brother but it sounds like him and his wife’s pain at the prospect of infertility and perhaps childlessness is something they are struggling with intensely.

When I went through miscarriages I found the starving analogy helped explain it. If you are starving (not just hungry, can’t eat starving) you can’t really think about anything else. You wouldn’t wish it on anyone else, but you wouldn’t sit around watching them eat, or asking them what they had for lunch. You can try and distract from the hunger but if you are sat in front of a plate of food it is just too distracting and the hunger becomes consuming.

No analogy is perfect, but it helped me explain to people how the experience was consuming and made me selfish for self preservation.

Give him time. Don’t push him. I am dealing with my own fertility (or lack of) right now and it’s all consuming and I’ve never felt grief like it. It will unlikely be a decade and their feelings will ebb and flow. I think you should be proud that you and he have a relationship where you can share these feelings and also be happy he felt able to confide the true reason for distancing himself from you. He clearly trusts you a lot as that is a lot of vulnerability he showed you and it sounds like he didn’t feel it was met with compassion.

It’s sad for your sons but sometimes this is the way life goes. I’d be honest with them in an age appropriate way probably - saying something like Uncle DB and Aunty DSIL are very sad at the moment because [enter age appropriate wording/reasoning] and so they need a lot of grown up time....they still love you very much and Uncle DB would still like to send you comics. Obviously they don’t need to hear that their very presence is painful to another human but they can hopefully grasp the concept of giving someone space.

It doesn’t hurt for children to understand that not everything revolves around them sometimes and that sometimes we show kindness by abiding by people’s wishes.

In terms of you, I’m really sorry that it’ll be difficult to see your brother. Maybe plan a day of annual leave that you both take when kids are at school and see each other then?

I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.
OP I really don't understand why you said this. Your brother told you he was heartbroken, because he will probably never have kids and you asked him this. Whether he's being reasonable or not you owe him an apology for saying this. It's akin to telling someone it's ok they can't DC because being a parent is hard.

Personally I understand their stance. You need to give them time and space. I'd be saying that along with the apology, that you're there for them when they're ready. He obviously loves your DC, but I expect that makes it harder to see them, because he's seeing exactly what they're missing out on. This isn't about you or your DC, it's about their heartbreak over being unable to have children. I understand it's tough losing that support and connection you're used to, but you do need to consider their needs in this too.

I think OP that you should accept that your relationship with your brother and SIL is changing and won’t be as before. I hope they will be lucky, science is developing so quickly, or maybe they will go for adoption but you are right that atm your DC are growing up and basically forgetting them. However I wouldn’t call them selfish. It’s so difficult when you are not able to have children, it’s absolutely soul destroying, it changes your whole life. My IVF was successful eventually and I have 16 y.o. but even so I still have this pain, and anger and guilt inside me ( it’s me who had infertility not DH). Imagine what your SIL is feeling now.

I was always ok with nephews and nieces, they were quite old when I and DH got together but I feel differently about their DC, I do ask about them and so on but it’s just politeness. I can’t bring myself to love them, it’s just too much. Am I being unreasonable? Maybe.

@TopBlogger all this

@Jesskir89 great, glad you have amnesia about the full of pain of fertility issues. Maybe as you actually got to have a child. The odds are very poor for the couple in this scenario. Plus we all feel differently about things anyway