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Original poster

Feeling so sad about DB and SIL

245 replies

porkincider · 30/06/2021 22:58

I have 2dc who, until Covid hit last year used to see my brother and his wife at least once a month. They live just over an hour away, are absolutely brilliant with DC and DC just love them to pieces. I really enjoy their company too and we’d always have lovely days together when we saw each other. Throughout the pandemic he’s been sending them presents and daft letters and comics that he’s made for them but he never wanted to speak to them on Zoom or anything.

They’ve been trying for dc for a while and at the beginning of last year found out that sadly it’s unlikely to happen even with IVF, although they’re still going to give IVF a go as they’re entitled to one round and want to do it before SIL is over the age limit. Since finding this out they’ve been understandably heartbroken but said that they’ve actually quite benefited from lockdown as they’ve been able to spend lots of time together just the two of them.

Since restrictions have relaxed I’ve been contacting them to see when they’d like to meet up but they’ve kept putting me off. Eventually at the weekend brother tells me that he’s sorry but he’s love to see me but he can’t face seeing my dc at the moment as children upset SIL too much. I asked if I could meet up with just him (single parent, one child with ASD and absolutely no one I could leave them with) but he said that he’d find it too upsetting too.

I asked if he thinks he’ll be happy to see them in future and he said that while him and his wife have hope of a child, no matter how faint he can’t see a point where he’d be comfortable around my dc. He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them. I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. Just wait until DC stop asking about him and let them enjoy the comics he sends them and nothing else? Wait for a decade until they’ve given up hope of having a child and then the relationship will continue?

I’d love for them to have a baby more than anything but I don’t know how to deal with it. It certainly means, for the foreseeable future at least, that I just can’t see my brother anymore as I have no one to have my kids.

Any advice? Just wait it out and wish them the best? It’s all just so sad.

OP posts:
godmum56 · 01/07/2021 10:40

I am childless not by choice. Didn't even particularly want children but I remember when menopause hit and "not yet" became "nor ever" and yes it was difficult even for me. I was working in a young team with plenty of baby chat, people falling pregnant and when young mums brought the babes in to visit, I ended up being out of the office as much as i could.
They are not being unreasonable. Feelings aren't unreasonable. Yes its sadfor your children but I think that can't be helped. Be patient. Be kind.

stayathomer · 01/07/2021 10:40

Would it be easier to pause the cards and comics for a while?
But the children don't even need to know that there's no contact. Kids don't need to know everything! We found out a lot of stuff in adulthood about things that went on with auntie's uncles and other relatives. Op can easily shield them from it until they're actually ready to know (hopefully years into the future when everything's better for db)

godmum56 · 01/07/2021 10:42

Blabla81
"No I don’t think he is nasty and selfish - I think his actions towards the OP’s children are. I understand their hurt completely- it’s horrendous. However, if I’d always previously been close to my nieces and nephews, before the struggle and hurt, I’d not punish them by no longer wanting to see them. I’d put it to one side (even pretend if I had to) just to maintain that relationship and put them first, just for the short time I was seeing them. In this situation they’re being seen as “children” and not humans. I’m not sure if I’m getting across what I’m trying to say without sounding like an insensitive cow."

Its great that you could do that.....not always possible for others

SheilaWilcox · 01/07/2021 10:44

@TopBlogger

You asked him if he would like to meet up with DCs - No You asked him if he'd like to meet up without SiL - No You asked if if there would be a future time when he would - He didnt know Three times he told you! But you didnt take the hint

THEN

I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me

Poor bloke, I am not surprised he hung up on you !!! You must have the hide of a rhinoceros Shock

He is in pain, grieving for potentially a lost future with children, he tried to tell you clearly and rather than listen to him you are pushing seeing yours on him

Show some compassion for him fgs

^^ THIS
criminallyinsane · 01/07/2021 10:44

@LawnFever for explaining kindly to me that it is insensitive and far too soon to mention surrogacy, thank you. I had no idea that I was suggesting something that would rub salt in the wound (the last thing I was trying to do). I just saw it as a practical solution but of course it is far far more complex than that. Sorry. Blush

BungleandGeorge · 01/07/2021 10:45

@Blossomtoes

If it makes it harder for the children then it’s absolutely valid

OP hasn’t said those hand made comics make it harder for her children, you made that up. Fabulous attitude - uncle maintains relationship with the kids in the way that’s manageable for him so you decide it’s unacceptable and stop that too. It’s really nasty and spiteful.

Read the part you’ve quoted ‘if it makes it harder’. That’s not stating a fact it’s an option

You are only thinking of one side of the equation. The children are very young, have SEN and perhaps that contact isn’t manageable for them. It’s often easier for children to forget about the relationship without constant reminders, depends how close they are and the effect of the SEN. It’s not ‘spiteful’ to respect the brothers wish to not see the kids but also to do what is best for her children. That’s a parents job.

Bibidy · 01/07/2021 10:46

I am surprised at the lack of sympathy for OP on this thread.

I completely understand her brother's actions but I can equally see how hurtful it would be from OP's point of view. He's her brother and she loves and misses him?

His feelings are 100% valid but so are OP's. I can't imagine how upset I'd be if my sister cut me out like this, even if the reasons are completely understandable. I would be hurting too.

Ozanj · 01/07/2021 10:46

@Jesskir89

Wow! They're being very unreasonable. I was trying for my ds for over 2.5 years, went through all sorts of tests, surgery and fertility treatment. I wouldn't dream of not seeing nieces and nephews.... in my opinion op they're being over the top. I'm sorry to hear this. It is heartbreaking what they're going through, but no reason your dc should suffer and you!
Did you go through ivf specifically and even that with only the hope of the one cycle because you can’t afford more? If not don’t judge.
EL8888 · 01/07/2021 10:51

@Ozanj very good points, some people assume ivf always works. In reality it’s more likely to fail than succeed

MoreAloneTime · 01/07/2021 10:52

OP you aren't wrong to feel sad about how this situation affects you. It's not a good thing for your family even if it is understandable.

BungleandGeorge · 01/07/2021 10:53

@stayathomer

Would it be easier to pause the cards and comics for a while? But the children don't even need to know that there's no contact. Kids don't need to know everything! We found out a lot of stuff in adulthood about things that went on with auntie's uncles and other relatives. Op can easily shield them from it until they're actually ready to know (hopefully years into the future when everything's better for db)
No I certainly wouldn’t tell them the reason. Their aunt and uncle live locally, used to see them very regularly and now don’t want to see them in person at all. Kids aren’t stupid, I’m not sure how realistically she would go about ‘shielding’ them so that they’re totally unaware for a long period?
Bluntness100 · 01/07/2021 10:55

@Bibidy

I am surprised at the lack of sympathy for OP on this thread.

I completely understand her brother's actions but I can equally see how hurtful it would be from OP's point of view. He's her brother and she loves and misses him?

His feelings are 100% valid but so are OP's. I can't imagine how upset I'd be if my sister cut me out like this, even if the reasons are completely understandable. I would be hurting too.

I think it’s because of how she’s reacted to her brother. After him opening up, explaining his pain and infertility she basically said so is it really because you don’t like my kids.
SmokeyDevil · 01/07/2021 11:06

@Bibidy

I am surprised at the lack of sympathy for OP on this thread.

I completely understand her brother's actions but I can equally see how hurtful it would be from OP's point of view. He's her brother and she loves and misses him?

His feelings are 100% valid but so are OP's. I can't imagine how upset I'd be if my sister cut me out like this, even if the reasons are completely understandable. I would be hurting too.

It's understandable to be sad, but her feelings are way below her brothers. He isn't gone completely from her life, he's just struggling right now. She should be feeling some empathy and sympathy for him, rather than just thinking 'oh no I've lost my brother'.

If she keeps acting this way, she will lose her brother permanently. Is that really a good idea? No, but if my sibling acted like this towards me and didn't realise how insensitive it was and change their behaviour, I'd not speak to them again.

YelloYelloYello · 01/07/2021 11:07

@Bibidy @Bluntness100 I agree with that reasoning. He’s going through something so painful, I imagine he really needs the support of his sister right now. And she responded like that.

She’s focussing fully on herself. She hasn’t found a way to see her brother without her children yet (which he is happy to do) so she is acting like he has cut her off. Forever.

It’s a sad time for everyone involved, including very much the OP and the OPs children. But her reaction has been fully self centred.

Blabla81 · 01/07/2021 11:07

@godmum56

Blabla81 "No I don’t think he is nasty and selfish - I think his actions towards the OP’s children are. I understand their hurt completely- it’s horrendous. However, if I’d always previously been close to my nieces and nephews, before the struggle and hurt, I’d not punish them by no longer wanting to see them. I’d put it to one side (even pretend if I had to) just to maintain that relationship and put them first, just for the short time I was seeing them. In this situation they’re being seen as “children” and not humans. I’m not sure if I’m getting across what I’m trying to say without sounding like an insensitive cow."

Its great that you could do that.....not always possible for others

I think it’s because I see them as people in their own right, not just “children” that they have and I want but I can’t have them. It was my own children I wanted, not theirs. Hopefully the OP’s brother and wife will be successful - I imagine they’d be quite hurt if OP didn’t want to see their child in the future. Infertility is an all consuming fog and sometimes it takes coming out of the other side to see things more logically. I also appreciate that it’s a lot easier to have these views if you have been successful and have come out of the other side. All in all, I can understand it from both points of view, but ultimately, punishing children who already exist and who you’ve already built a relationship with, is sad and yes selfish.
Twylar · 01/07/2021 11:08

They just need time right now. They'll come back but you can appreciate how devastated they are I'm sure.

godmum56 · 01/07/2021 11:16

"I think it’s because I see them as people in their own right, not just “children” that they have and I want but I can’t have them. It was my own children I wanted, not theirs.
Hopefully the OP’s brother and wife will be successful - I imagine they’d be quite hurt if OP didn’t want to see their child in the future. Infertility is an all consuming fog and sometimes it takes coming out of the other side to see things more logically. I also appreciate that it’s a lot easier to have these views if you have been successful and have come out of the other side. All in all, I can understand it from both points of view, but ultimately, punishing children who already exist and who you’ve already built a relationship with, is sad and yes selfish."

and again its wonderful that you could do that, but not everybody could. i think in these circs. while its very sad, there are needs here that come before the children and that's not selfish, its life. We see on here posts from Mums saying that DD or DS is struggling with nursery or overnight stays but the adult needs to do it and so on and the majority response seems to be do it, the children will be fine. Not completely the same of course and much sadder but in life its not always possible to put children first.

Bibidy · 01/07/2021 11:17

It's understandable to be sad, but her feelings are way below her brothers. He isn't gone completely from her life, he's just struggling right now. She should be feeling some empathy and sympathy for him, rather than just thinking 'oh no I've lost my brother'.

I think that she does feel sympathy and she has said she will apologise. I guess for OP, she's got her own things going on as a single parent and has said her brother and SIL are her only support network.

I completely agree she needs to give space though and be supportive, and also that she needs to try and find a way to see her brother/both of them without the kids if poss, although I do appreciate this may be hard for her as a single mum with no other support locally.

PurpleDaisies · 01/07/2021 11:18

I think it’s because I see them as people in their own right, not just “children” that they have and I want but I can’t have them. It was my own children I wanted, not theirs.

I used to feel the same (mostly). I still find scan pictures and pregnant women much harder to be around than children. Saying that, it’s been awful feeling under pressure to hold friends’ babies and then feeling utterly self conscious while you’re doing it. More recently it’s been much harder being around some close family children because I keep thinking about what it would be like if we were playing games with our own kids, or reading them bedtime stories etc and rather than being enjoyable it’s been heartbreaking.
People deal with things in different ways at different times.

Blabla81 · 01/07/2021 11:38

@PurpleDaisies

I think it’s because I see them as people in their own right, not just “children” that they have and I want but I can’t have them. It was my own children I wanted, not theirs.

I used to feel the same (mostly). I still find scan pictures and pregnant women much harder to be around than children. Saying that, it’s been awful feeling under pressure to hold friends’ babies and then feeling utterly self conscious while you’re doing it. More recently it’s been much harder being around some close family children because I keep thinking about what it would be like if we were playing games with our own kids, or reading them bedtime stories etc and rather than being enjoyable it’s been heartbreaking.
People deal with things in different ways at different times.

Oh god yes I can relate. Pregnancy announcements, pregnant women, bumps and new borns were killers for me. I’d do everything I could to avoid them. I think this situation is different though - the children in question here aren’t babies or even very young - they have, until now had a relationship with the their aunt and uncle and now they don’t want to see them anymore because it’s too painful. I don’t think that’s fair.
PurpleDaisies · 01/07/2021 11:43

I think this situation is different though - the children in question here aren’t babies or even very young - they have, until now had a relationship with the their aunt and uncle and now they don’t want to see them anymore because it’s too painful. I don’t think that’s fair.

It isn’t fair. Nothing about the situation is fair.
It might be the only way that the brother and SIL can cope right now though.

The children haven’t seen them all through the pandemic so this isn’t a sudden change. It doesn’t necessarily have to be forever.

It doesn’t matter that the children aren’t newborns in terms of whether it hurts to see them. Didn’t you read my post? The friends’ children it’s hardest for me to see are between three and nine.

Blossomtoes · 01/07/2021 11:54

Their aunt and uncle live locally, used to see them very regularly and now don’t want to see them in person at all. Kids aren’t stupid, I’m not sure how realistically she would go about ‘shielding’ them so that they’re totally unaware for a long period?

You’re writing fiction again. They live an hour away and they used to see them once a month. Since covid they haven’t seen them at all, that’s 15 months without a face to face visit. As you pointed out, kids forget, I doubt they’ll remember those monthly visits. Not seeing them is now their normal.

Jesskir89 · 01/07/2021 11:57

@BeeDavis yes that is my opinion.

@EL8888 clearly this subject is close to home for you and you can relate. I'm sorry to hear of the issues you've had yourself I truly am. I hope things work out for you Flowers

Blabla81 · 01/07/2021 12:00

@PurpleDaisies

I think this situation is different though - the children in question here aren’t babies or even very young - they have, until now had a relationship with the their aunt and uncle and now they don’t want to see them anymore because it’s too painful. I don’t think that’s fair.

It isn’t fair. Nothing about the situation is fair.
It might be the only way that the brother and SIL can cope right now though.

The children haven’t seen them all through the pandemic so this isn’t a sudden change. It doesn’t necessarily have to be forever.

It doesn’t matter that the children aren’t newborns in terms of whether it hurts to see them. Didn’t you read my post? The friends’ children it’s hardest for me to see are between three and nine.

Why are you replying in a rude way? I wasn’t rude to you, I was understanding. Is it because we’re on mumsnet? Everyone always seems to be rude and sarcastic on here. YES I read your thread. Yes I understand what you’ve said. Of course everyone’s situation is different and people find different things hard. You find seeing friends children hard - I did too. I wouldn’t suddenly decide I could no longer see my own niece and nephew though because I find it too hard. That wouldn’t be fair on them if I knew how much they loved me. I’d put my own feelings aside because I’m an adult and they’re children. Then I’d go home again and cry a river. You’re correct - it may be the only way this couple can cope - it doesn’t take away the fact that it isn’t fair for the children (who are close to them, have always had a relationship with them and who love them - it’s different to friends children, well for me anyway). Let’s hope the impact isn’t too harsh, as you rightly pointed out, there has already been a distance during lockdown (however OP states they wouldn’t even zoom or FaceTime them as they didn’t want to see them that way either).
Jesskir89 · 01/07/2021 12:00

@Ozanj no I was fortunate enough to conceive from clomid not that I think that matters as were all entitled to an opinion. I'm not judging anyone, I had close friends and sil fall pregnant while I was ttc and its heartbreaking but in my opinion the op and her children shouldn't suffer

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