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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Feeling so sad about DB and SIL

245 replies

porkincider · 30/06/2021 22:58

I have 2dc who, until Covid hit last year used to see my brother and his wife at least once a month. They live just over an hour away, are absolutely brilliant with DC and DC just love them to pieces. I really enjoy their company too and we’d always have lovely days together when we saw each other. Throughout the pandemic he’s been sending them presents and daft letters and comics that he’s made for them but he never wanted to speak to them on Zoom or anything.

They’ve been trying for dc for a while and at the beginning of last year found out that sadly it’s unlikely to happen even with IVF, although they’re still going to give IVF a go as they’re entitled to one round and want to do it before SIL is over the age limit. Since finding this out they’ve been understandably heartbroken but said that they’ve actually quite benefited from lockdown as they’ve been able to spend lots of time together just the two of them.

Since restrictions have relaxed I’ve been contacting them to see when they’d like to meet up but they’ve kept putting me off. Eventually at the weekend brother tells me that he’s sorry but he’s love to see me but he can’t face seeing my dc at the moment as children upset SIL too much. I asked if I could meet up with just him (single parent, one child with ASD and absolutely no one I could leave them with) but he said that he’d find it too upsetting too.

I asked if he thinks he’ll be happy to see them in future and he said that while him and his wife have hope of a child, no matter how faint he can’t see a point where he’d be comfortable around my dc. He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them. I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. Just wait until DC stop asking about him and let them enjoy the comics he sends them and nothing else? Wait for a decade until they’ve given up hope of having a child and then the relationship will continue?

I’d love for them to have a baby more than anything but I don’t know how to deal with it. It certainly means, for the foreseeable future at least, that I just can’t see my brother anymore as I have no one to have my kids.

Any advice? Just wait it out and wish them the best? It’s all just so sad.

OP posts:
Peoniesandpeaches · 01/07/2021 07:29

It really reads more that you feel inconvenienced by his feelings rather than have any genuine empathy. What struck me most was the way you complained that this could be up to a decade which makes it seem like you’re just thinking if it in terms of how much it affects you.

Bythemillpond · 01/07/2021 07:31

I can completely understand why offering to be a surrogate would be insensitive to my brother - both he and I think it’s an absolutely barbaric practice that has no place in civilised society

I think that is a strong reaction and I wonder when faced with no alternative will your db be thinking the same. Especially if his dw doesn’t have such strong beliefs.

I think it is going to take many years for them to come around. They are really only at the very beginning of their journey and I think you were incredibly insensitive to suggest that the reason your db didn’t want to see your children was because they might be a handful instead of thinking of how painful it must be for them

Cowbells · 01/07/2021 07:33

It is understandably a very hard thing to understand. But the physical pain of being in the presence of other people's DC when you have fertility problems is excruciating.

This is very tough for all of you. Send them love and let them know you understand why they have this reaction as they would clearly be such brilliant parents. In time, they might decide to be the best uncle and auntie in the world to your DC but they need space to come to terms with their own childlessness.

Original poster
porkincider · 01/07/2021 07:34

bythemillpond I would hope that infertility wouldn’t change my brother’s moral stance.

OP posts:
MaxNormal · 01/07/2021 07:36

I think your children are being really unfairly treated here, and your brother and SIL in their distress are being extremely selfish.

MoreAloneTime · 01/07/2021 07:38

I think all you can do here is give them time and space and try to demonstrate empathy and emotional intelligence with their situation. I'd consider reading some experiences if infertility to try and get an idea of the things it can throw up.

Kisskiss · 01/07/2021 07:39

@TopBlogger

You asked him if he would like to meet up with DCs - No You asked him if he'd like to meet up without SiL - No You asked if if there would be a future time when he would - He didnt know Three times he told you! But you didnt take the hint

THEN

I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me

Poor bloke, I am not surprised he hung up on you !!! You must have the hide of a rhinoceros Shock

He is in pain, grieving for potentially a lost future with children, he tried to tell you clearly and rather than listen to him you are pushing seeing yours on him

Show some compassion for him fgs

Couldn’t agree more!!!! Please give him sone space, you need to respect what he needs id you care about him at all
Kisskiss · 01/07/2021 07:41

@porkincider

graphista I’m really not constantly pushing them. I’ve had one conversation with dbro about it, I said something deeply insensitive and he hung up on me. I’m not pushing it and have absolutely no intention of doing so. I was just venting here I guess as I feel the situation is so desperately sad for all of us.
Sorry to be blunt but, you also need to stop making the situation about you..
Fitforforty · 01/07/2021 07:42

@PurpleDaisies

I agree, just give them time while it’s still raw.

I asked if he thinks he’ll be happy to see them in future and he said that while him and his wife have hope of a child, no matter how faint he can’t see a point where he’d be comfortable around my dc. He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them
I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.

I would send a message apologising for saying this. He’d literally just been telling you how upset they were about not having been able to have children and how hard it was seeing yours. To suggest it was because yours were too much work or annoying must have felt like you weren’t listening or hadn’t understood what he was saying at all.

I agree.
LawnFever · 01/07/2021 07:48

@porkincider

lawnfever I’m making me not offering to be a surrogate about me? Wtf? I can completely understand why offering to be a surrogate would be insensitive to my brother - both he and I think it’s an absolutely barbaric practice that has no place in civilised society.
No, your/his moral stance on surrogacy isn’t the issue in that scenario.

It’s about the added implications of what an offer surrogacy means - e.g. its so incredibly easy for someone to have a baby they could even consider offering to be a surrogate.

I think for anyone who has kids it’s very hard to understand how insensitive a suggestion this is, it’s not about anyone’s views on the morals of surrogacy in this situation.

stayathomer · 01/07/2021 07:49

I think possibly aibu was not the best place to post this? no one's being unreasonable here. Maybe this should move to relationships?

PerciphonePuma · 01/07/2021 07:50

They're being EXTREMELY cruel and selfish, wow!
Stop accepting the comics and stop any further contact with either of them. They're not worth any of it. Do you think they'd respect you if the it was you in their position? From how you describe them, I doubt it!!!!

unwuthering · 01/07/2021 07:57

I'm sorry, they're being cruel and selfish?! By having their own feelings? By not making their grief and loss and this difficult personal time all about pleasing the OP and pandering to her? Weird.

I think the first no should have been enough.

Livelovebehappy · 01/07/2021 07:58

They’re dealing with it in their own way. It’s hard for you, especially as you say you have no other support, which is making you more distraught as it seems he and your sil might be your only family network. But not being able to conceive is like a bereavement - you grieve, then along the way you come to some sort of acceptance, so you just have to be patient and respect their wishes.

PerciphonePuma · 01/07/2021 07:58

I'm also a single parent to a child with ASD who happens to have no other family besides myself and my brother, for very sad reasons. Also, with having ASD, my daughter doesn't understand reasons behind rejection - to her it's just rejection 🤷🏼‍♀️ My brother (as 'most' uncles should) knows this! If he pulled a stunt like this, I'd be absolutely apoplectic!

YanTanTethera123 · 01/07/2021 08:00

@PerciphonePuma

They're being EXTREMELY cruel and selfish, wow! Stop accepting the comics and stop any further contact with either of them. They're not worth any of it. Do you think they'd respect you if the it was you in their position? From how you describe them, I doubt it!!!!
WTF?! God, I’ve heard it all now, how much more incredibly callous and insensitive can you be? MN at its worst.
LawnFever · 01/07/2021 08:01

@stayathomer

I think possibly aibu was not the best place to post this? no one's being unreasonable here. Maybe this should move to relationships?
This is in relationships Smile
Bluntness100 · 01/07/2021 08:06

Have you apologised to him yet? I don’t understand why when he told you his issues you then acted like you didn’t believe him and asked if he found your kids annoying, it’s so lacking in any form of empathy.

Apologise.

SoupDragon · 01/07/2021 08:07

If he pulled a stunt like this, I'd be absolutely apoplectic!

So only your DD's feelings count? You wouldn't give a shit about how he felt? Nice.

There is a shocking lack of empathy on display form some posters.

Howshouldibehave · 01/07/2021 08:10

I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me

Omg, I don’t blame him-what an awful thing to ask him when he’s just opened up his heart and soul to you. I think you need to apologise ASAP. You are making this all about you.

charlestonchaplin · 01/07/2021 08:10

Children need to learn that they aren’t the centre of everyone’s world. There would be fewer spoilt and completely self-absorbed children in this country if they learnt this and these children are at good ages to start learning.

fairydust11 · 01/07/2021 08:13

Sorry you are going through this. Although it’s upsetting what they are going through, seeing their niece/nephews for an hour or so since lockdown isn’t an unreasonable ask and although they are going through an awful time I can’t see why they can’t understand how your children may feel in all this…perhaps writing things down in an email stating how much you support & care for them & understand they need time, but explain how children don’t understand that & they think they may have done something wrong. Explain how you hope they can keep their relationship with your children - this may work & you may hopefully get to see them over the summer holidays. Good luck.

stellaisabella · 01/07/2021 08:13

Firstly - stop making the situation about you.

Secondly - your stance on surrogacy would very likely change if you were infertile. Saying you hope infertility doesn't change your brothers stance on the subject, is just incredibly self centred. Saying it's "barbaric" in general is so insensitive to anyone who has used a surrogate, or been a surrogate, which is an incredibly selfless thing to do to give someone a child. How it's barbaric I'll never know - unless you think pregnancy barbaric in general?

I'd personally just drop the subject all together with him as to be honest you have no understanding of their feelings. And for the love of god - if they do use a surrogate, keep your mouth firmly shut. You're coming across incredibly self centred and judgmental.

PurpleDaisies · 01/07/2021 08:15

I’m surprised the children are even bothered about not seeing them tbh. There’s been a pandemic and loads of people haven’t been meeting up. That’s become totally normal.

Talking about them feeling rejected seems like quite a lot of projection from adults. I didn’t see my nieces for a year for various reasons. We’ve picked up a good relationship.

How do you think families who live a long way apart cope?

ItsSnowJokes · 01/07/2021 08:16

@EKGEMS

I think there's insensitivity on both sides but nobody is wrong-you picking and picking for a reason when already provided and them for ghosting your kids. Perhaps over time they will change their minds or they will have a breakthrough with fertility and perhaps with time and maturity your child can be left with a child minder
I agree with this. It is very sad for both parties, they are grieving not being able to have children and you are grieving the loss of your brother and sister in law in your lives.

Personally, I would just get on with your life and see what happens in the future.