Feeling so sad about DB and SIL

[porkincider]

I have 2dc who, until Covid hit last year used to see my brother and his wife at least once a month. They live just over an hour away, are absolutely brilliant with DC and DC just love them to pieces. I really enjoy their company too and we’d always have lovely days together when we saw each other. Throughout the pandemic he’s been sending them presents and daft letters and comics that he’s made for them but he never wanted to speak to them on Zoom or anything.

They’ve been trying for dc for a while and at the beginning of last year found out that sadly it’s unlikely to happen even with IVF, although they’re still going to give IVF a go as they’re entitled to one round and want to do it before SIL is over the age limit. Since finding this out they’ve been understandably heartbroken but said that they’ve actually quite benefited from lockdown as they’ve been able to spend lots of time together just the two of them.

Since restrictions have relaxed I’ve been contacting them to see when they’d like to meet up but they’ve kept putting me off. Eventually at the weekend brother tells me that he’s sorry but he’s love to see me but he can’t face seeing my dc at the moment as children upset SIL too much. I asked if I could meet up with just him (single parent, one child with ASD and absolutely no one I could leave them with) but he said that he’d find it too upsetting too.

I asked if he thinks he’ll be happy to see them in future and he said that while him and his wife have hope of a child, no matter how faint he can’t see a point where he’d be comfortable around my dc. He said he’d love to maintain the relationship with my dc, that he loves them and misses them and just loves making the comics for them that he does but he just can’t bring himself to see them. I asked him if he just found them too much like hard work or if they annoyed him or something and he burst into tears telling me I was just being cruel and hung up on me.

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. Just wait until DC stop asking about him and let them enjoy the comics he sends them and nothing else? Wait for a decade until they’ve given up hope of having a child and then the relationship will continue?

I’d love for them to have a baby more than anything but I don’t know how to deal with it. It certainly means, for the foreseeable future at least, that I just can’t see my brother anymore as I have no one to have my kids.

Any advice? Just wait it out and wish them the best? It’s all just so sad.

Your brother and sister in law have every right to grieve as they choose.

However, there is a risk they will lose their relationship with your children in the process, in terms of closeness. There is nothing you can really do about that though. It is a sad situation all round.

You behaved very rudely making it about you or your children. Your brother and his wife are in pain and right now what is helping them cope is not seeing your children. That’s just where their head is at and you pushing it has made it harder for them to consider a time when they will want to see you and them as they can’t trust you to be even a little bit sensitive.
To those saying “but what about the kids” frankly it’s up to the OP to manage their expectations and deal with them not the brother. Why can’t she just tell them that their aunt and uncle are having a difficult time and cannot come visit but love the, very much that’s why they send them those letters?

This is very sad for both sides, but he and SIL are going through a very difficult time and you have kind of replied in a "what about me" way.
As many have said your DB needs some time to come to terms with what he's going through.

@PurpleDaisies You're right I should've said they've stop visiting in person

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do

Listen instead of constantly pushing on this?

He explained what the situation was and you kept on and on

You need to give them some space and time - they're grieving!

I had mcs before Dd, most people understood but one guy then dh worked with was an utter twat to the point dh almost lamped him! And he is not an aggressive man! Luckily dhs friend and boss stepped in - and also had words with that arsehole colleague

You made this all about you/your dc/your feelings

You have no idea how they are feeling as you've been fortunate enough not to go through this yourself.

I'll tell you I felt physical pain whenever someone announced a pregnancy in the time between my last mc and pregnancy with dd.

Even I cannot presume to imagine how awful they're feeling given the news they have fairly recently received.

It must be absolutely heartbreaking for them both.

My ex was devastated when we mc even he said it hit him harder than he'd have thought it would (I suspected Gynae issues and I'd had a mc with a previous partner)

In addition he had to watch me go through emergency admittance, several surgeries, the revelation it had been twins, a weird reaction to anaesthesia, receiving the dx of the gynae issue, knowing I'd need more surgery as a result, i needed medication too, we had to put ttc on hold while this was all sorted and even then there were no guarantees.

Bless him he kept up "being strong" for ages then arsehole colleague occurred and he burst into tears when he got in from work and sobbed his heart out!

This is hugely devastating news for them op. Respect that and support them - don't add to their stress

It is very sad and I understand their hurt.
Would you consider being a surrogate for them?

My IVF was successfully but I remember in the middle of infertility being relieved that I lived half way round the world and thus had a built in excuse to not see my (much loved) sister when she was pregnant and had her first child. If our IVF hadn’t been successful I’m pretty sure I’d have built life to be friendly but distant from them.

@GoodbyePorpoiseSpit

Give them some time

This.

I wonder if their strong relationship has ever reminded you of what you sont have.

I'm sorry but it very much sounded as if your message to your brother was all about you!

Your brother would like nothing more than to complain the his DC are 'annoying' or 'too much hard work'... That's why your complaints about how your kids can be felt so cruel to him.

What do you think about being a surrogate as suggested by someone upthread?

@YeokensYegg

It is very sad and I understand their hurt. Would you consider being a surrogate for them?

I know you mean this suggestion in the kindest way but OP please do not suggest being a surrogate right now.

It’s way too close for them at the moment and this could easily be seen as another kick in the teeth that you can easily carry a child and she might never be able to.

I think when people have been through infertility but then have a child at the end of it it’s a very different place to be than trying to come to terms with going through all of the same and still not possibly ever being able to have a baby.

It’s been three years since our last IVF, which ended in a miscarriage and the knowledge that was our last chance - it’s a very lonely place to be, and still now a pregnancy announcement hits me and brings it all back.

You can definitely see the lack of empathy towards people who haven't been able to have children here - once again. If you haven't been through it, you do not understand the immense grief. Don't make it all about you! You've been fortunate, so be gracious now.

Sometimes it is unbearable to see the family resemblance in nieces and nephews, when you know you won't have your own children.

Give them some space, it will get easier for them with time.

@criminallyinsane

Your brother would like nothing more than to complain the his DC are 'annoying' or 'too much hard work'... That's why your complaints about how your kids can be felt so cruel to him.

What do you think about being a surrogate as suggested by someone upthread?

I don’t think an offer of surrogacy right now would be very considerate, it’s like another reminder how easy it is for the OP to carry a baby, perhaps in time but right now I think it’ll be way too raw a subject.

What a sad situation, I agree with PP, give them time. for you OP.

It will probably be easier for your kids not to see their uncle, than if they do see him and he breaks down in front of them.

After my stillbirth I couldn't relax around my friends' young kids because I was always having to keep my emotions under check in case I started crying and couldn't stop.

@YeokensYegg

It is very sad and I understand their hurt. Would you consider being a surrogate for them?

Wtf?

That's some leap.

Before I had my DD and I didn’t think I’d ever be a mum, I found being around pregnant ladies and children incredibly hard. I remember refusing to go to a family dinner because both my SIL and my cousins wife were pregnant.

Give them both time, things are raw with them at the moment. Maybe send them a Moonpig card and box of chocolates saying you’re thinking of them and leave them be for a bit

No, I wouldn’t offer to be a surrogate. Even if I did I would really hope they’d decline the offer as the practice is absolutely barbaric.

graphista I’m really not constantly pushing them. I’ve had one conversation with dbro about it, I said something deeply insensitive and he hung up on me. I’m not pushing it and have absolutely no intention of doing so. I was just venting here I guess as I feel the situation is so desperately sad for all of us.

@porkincider

No, I wouldn’t offer to be a surrogate. Even if I did I would really hope they’d decline the offer as the practice is absolutely barbaric.

I don’t think you’re really taking to heart the reasons in this situation why offering surrogacy is insensitive - right now it’s not about how you’d feel about it.

Its how they would most likely see it as another reminder that you/others could offer it as a solution, you’re still making this about you

lawnfever I’m making me not offering to be a surrogate about me? Wtf? I can completely understand why offering to be a surrogate would be insensitive to my brother - both he and I think it’s an absolutely barbaric practice that has no place in civilised society.

Sometimes you have to put yourself first, this is one of those times for them, good for him for being honest. I hope you do apologise for being insensitive.

@porkincider
Sorry pork, I wasn't trying to imply you would force your brother to meet up, I was responding to another poster but it got lost in the mix.

Depending on your relationship I'd either write to say thinking of you, call me anytime or I'd leave it and wait for them to contact you.

Relationships can and do mend - or be reformed. If they are aren't close right now it doesn't mean they never will be again.

@AlternativePerspective

They’re being incredibly unreasonable.

Yes not being able to have children is very unfortunate, and they will no doubt be sad about that, but to cut other family children off forever because of it Is unreasonable. What are they going to do? Live like recluses for the rest of their lives in case they happen to see another child while out and about?

Sorry but as harsh as it is sometimes people just can’t have children, but life goes on.

The children haven’t done anything to deserve to be treated this way.

I agree... cutting family children off because they haven't been able to have kids is incredibly self centered and I speak from experience. The brother and his wife are obviously going through hell but they are going to make it worse for themselves.

Give them time. I had a very difficult , lengthy and painful fertility journey . Ultimately we were successful but the pain of that journey is still with me today . Whilst the situation is really sad for you and your DC you have to respect their wishes. It is always difficult when others are able to have families with apparent ease they just need to process what is happening to them. Sometimes it’s difficult to predict how you will be on any given day as it’s a bit of a rollercoaster. I found it very hard when a period came especially since my periods were so awful. It is also possible that since they have got just one attempt at IVF then they will be just focussing on that . Everyone has a different approach but I became super obsessive about being in absolute tip top condition health wise Eg no alcohol , caffeine, good exercise regime, relaxation techniques, filtered water, no unprocessed food etc etc . I was frankly a bit obsessive and it was all consuming but I just needed to do something to try and tip the balance so that I felt I had a bit of control . Some people around me were brilliant and humoured me ( and my dietary requirements ) Others less so or made inappropriate comments ( “why don’t you just get a dog” ) No one asks to find themselves in this situation but I don’t think this is a forever situation but it might become so if you press them before they are ready . I’ve never forgiven my sister in law for not telling me that they had also invited her brother who lived overseas to stay for Christmas . They didn’t think it necessary to mention that they had a very young baby that was born around the same time as the due date of one of the babies I lost five months before. Whilst the baby was absolutely delightful I’m sure, it was extremely difficult for me. So please just give them the space they need and have asked for.