New date, he’s 40, would you steer clear if...

[Wonderbraaaas]

He’s never had a relationship. Ie never had a relationship that lasted beyond a few months, never moved in, never met parents, never said he loved anyone (I asked if he’d ever loved someone after I found out he’d never had a proper relationship, to which he said ‘I got to a stage where I thought I might be able to love x (name of a previous date of a few months).

He’s never introduced anyone to his family, never met anyone’s family, never even been on a holiday with someone, not even for a weekend break.

We get on well but before I found this out (a month or so after meeting), I’d noticed he was incredibly awkward in messages, very very formal (always signs off with his name which I know people do but generally not after you’ve got to know someone?! Maybe just me...). He’s very procedural, would never throw in a flirty comment. When together he’s good fun, very good sense of humour (at least I like it!), but again formal and reserved. Often catch him staring into space and he says oh I’m just thinking... nothing wrong with any of this or course, it’s just unusual. He had a couple of relationship books on the book shelf, one of which was a step by step guide to meeting and talking to women, including advice on what to wear, what to say, how to progress a relationship I guess that’s not a problem in itself but someone who has gone out of their way to buy a book on relationships but has never been in one for forty years makes me apprehensive.

I’m just not sure what to do as I’ve had many men mess me about and I’m getting older now, want to settle down so if he’s a hiding to nowhere I want to get out now. I know nobody from the internet can decide for me but just wanted to talk it over I think!

Wonder brass he sounds superbly autistic. Google and read as much as you can.

A lot of the time someone with autism won't realise that they're autistic because it's normal for them, they don't know any differently. Of course they will be aware of times when there's been communication issues and social faux pas with others or they might have problems making friends and so on. But unless there's been a lightbulb moment, perhaps they've read something online about autism and thought hey that sounds a bit like me they might not twig.

A lot of kids get diagnosed nowadays and then similarities are spotted in one of their parents, leading to another possible diagnosis. Or they might not want to be diagnosed, or be in denial. My husband does a lot of reading about his different behaviours, he's curious about why he does X and then sees that it's due to his Asperger's. He was very enthusiastic when we first met (online dating, long distance). Loads of questions, really keen to get to know me, lots of effort. This can be typical. We're basically two people who just live in the same house now, very little conversation (unless he wants to talk/rant about something). Sex gradually petered out to nothing, from what I've read either it's a special interest for them and they're very dedicated to doing it "right" or they have no interest/are asexual, there's no middle ground.

Of course he might not be on the spectrum but a lot of bells were ringing reading your post. And I was also a person who'd never had a proper relationship (I'd had sex but a relationship hadn't happened before I met my DH) so I jumped in feet first and clung on tight despite the difficult times.

I have a friend who could fit this description. He’s always been very busy with work and hasn’t had a relationship. So he isn’t very confident with women and doesn’t want to say or do the wrong thing.

If you like him, I’d have a serious conversation with him. He may well appreciate it, because it will put things into context for him: you like him, you’re looking for something serious, you wouldn’t be averse to his making a move. I’d at least give that a go before binning him off if, as you say, you do think he’s great.

Don't write him off because he is not like every one else. Just continue getting to know him.

@Wonderbraaaas

I’m not bothered if he is on the spectrum, I think he’s great and that wouldn’t bother me!

I’m just trying to work out what’s going on in terms of his lack of relationship history and I don’t want to waste my time as I feel very old now

His relationships have not gone past the few months mark, that’s were you’re at now and considering ending it ? Aside from his lack of relationship history, what else is causing you concern about the long term prospect of this relationship. Maybe that’s why the other relationships didn’t progress.

So he's a bit awkward. If you write him off, he's going to become yet more awkward and it may be why relationships don't work out for him.

If you like him, and you can cope with his awkward nature, it might change once he becomes more familiar and relaxed.

If it doesn't, then you gave it a go.

I've read all of your responses OP, but not all of the messages in between so not sure if I'm repeating someone else.

I think it sounds like he's definitely worth a chance! It sounds like he's eager to improve his communication with you. It might be quite hard work for a start, but if you're always honest with him and enjoy his company (and fancy him) I think this has potential. I wonder if other women have written him off early in a relationship, and he's low on confidence (that might explain the formality a bit).

I know it's early days, but have you spoken with him about the future? Do you know if he wants the same things in general as you?

I'm with the PPs who mentioned autism - my stepdad, sister and father in law all have it and they are similar to what you are describing.

It's not a deal-breaker, and of course people with autism can have great and fulfilling relationships, it's just a different way of processing things and often affection etc is more of a learned behaviour rather than an innate one IYSWIM.

That being said, my mother shouldn't have married my step-dad. She is very emotionally needy, she has a lot of insecurities and would be best with a partner who is emotionally intuitive and who's communication style is emotional, rather than logical. They have a very poor relationship - he's straight forward, logical, one-track minded and enjoys getting things done. This has great benefits but also makes him stubborn, inflexible and quite emotionally unavailable.
She's flighty, emotional, laid back and generally very "go with the flow" - she likes to talk about feelings, and is very tactile and huggy.
She feels unloved by him, and he feels smothered by her.

Both of them are wonderful people - it's just not a good match.

So in relation to the OP - it's really working out whether, in the long term, his communication style (formal, logical, reasoned, proper, "to the rule book", black and white) is something that works for you. Do you prefer a practical, solution-based relationship which may lack intuition or would you flourish more in an emotionally driven, tactile sort of relationship?

I hope that makes sense

@Wonderbraaaas

It’s been a bit hard work. It’s taken weeks for him to feel he can just call me randomly, for instance. We used to have a formal message asking when was convenient, which is very nice obviously! But he seems stuck in formality all the time. That example isn’t a big deal but it took about 15 dates before we stayed over. We’ve not had sex yet and it’s been nearly 3 months. Not bothered about that yet but obviously part of me is thinking wtf?! Most men have wanted that after a few dates. I don’t like that either but this is another extreme? He was a terrible kisser but has since become brilliant with practice. I don’t know..we click massively on humour and interests so I didn’t want to end it. But I was a bit surprised to know he’s never had a relationship.

You seem to be hung up on his formality in messages yet you seem to like him otherwise. I always write messages correctly, I've never used 'text-speak', my daughters find it funny but at least it's understandable! I'd stick with him a bit longer, good luck!

He is able to have conversations, talk about things, he’s got a decent job, he’s quite caring and self aware.
Doesn't sound like someone lacking in nuanced understanding to me.

What is your main concern, OP? Seems to be that you are worried that his lack of relationships might mean he'll get bored and dump you? Have you asked him who has tended to end the short relationships he's been in? Surely all the signs are that it's the women ending them as he's so awkward or they are assuming he's not interested?

Obviously, even if you feel under pressure to have kids, you should still consider the usual things such as whether or not you are going to find him annoying in the long run, which could obviously be an issue once the initial excitement wears off. And whether he'll make a good husband or dad - well, "caring" and "self-aware" are a good start.

He sounds fine. You on the other hand sound judgmental, obsessive and controlling. I think he deserves better for his first proper relationship.

I also think it sounds like he could be autistic but it was very underdiagnosed before so he may well not have a diagnosis.

I would just say to him that you want to settle down if that is what you want, he may well want the same but not know how to go about it. I think he is likely to be honest in his replies at least. Though you will probably need to spell everything out as you go along, if you want children, if you want to go on holiday.

looking at it like this

would you rather the complete opposite i.e. someone who is really pushy, really overstepping your boundaries, thinks they know it all especially in the bedroom department

instead of someone who is polite, reflects on themselves and listens and responds.

I know which one I would rather have.

Reserved and careful win the day in my book. Feeling safe is important too.

[quote Wonderbraaaas]@blissfulllife how long did it take to have sex? I’ve not been bothered so far as we have had intimacy but I don’t think I could go without sex on a regular basis long term.[/quote]
6 months. no stopping him once he was over that initial shyness

@2021DNA

He sounds fine. You on the other hand sound judgmental, obsessive and controlling. I think he deserves better for his first proper relationship.

That's so unfair - she doesn't sound like that at all.

I thought autistic (ie aspergers - so high functioning) as soon as I started reading, the more I read the more it sounded like it. He probably hasn't told you because he might not even be aware himself, he might not have a diagnosis as things have changed a lot since he would have been at school!
You'll probably find him absolutely clueless about a lot of things, quite self absorbed, unaware of how you're feeling unless it's very obvious, won't pick up on subtle things, socially a bit odd, no real understanding of what love is, I know that my OH is like that anyway, it can be very difficult, it just depends if you can live with that or not.

This wouldn't work for me and all the things you say would be red flags. There is something holding him back from intimacy and if that is your relationship style then this probably won't click.

This might not be a popular way forward but its one I'd consider if you think there is a remote chance this has a future... proceed on the basis of being friends - being super clear with him that that is what is on the table and that you are not sure you are compatible, obviously being kind while you say this - and keep your options open by which I mean continue to date other people. You can then see where this goes, if anywhere, but also not be worried that you are wasting your time.

Perhaps that won't work for him and his 'formality' but honestly its the way I'd proceed. Everything that you have said about his past relationships or lack there of doesn't bode well in my opinion. Obviously if he wasn't happy with that absolutely fair enough and say goodbye without hard feelings.

He seems like he's probably a nice enough man, maybe neurotypical as others have said.

I don't think three months before staying over is difficult,

I think it is lovely.

That's how things used to be when there was a tad of romance about dating...(you can tell I'm old according to some people)

It wouldn’t be for me.

Most adults, particularly those born in 70s/80s weren't diagnosed with autism like they are now. There's a wide ranging spectrum so many of them would have just been written off as socially awkward in their youth. So he like my doesn't know, but it's worth asking him if anyone else has ever mentioned it. And you should do some reading on it yourself, as it will impact the relationship you have with him.

He definitely sounds like he's on the spectrum. Living life by rules since he doesn't naturally understand the right way to communicate or read social cues. He's likely very ordered and methodical in how he arranges his home and life too?

He may be a lovely, decent man but that's not enough for a happy relationship. Can you communicate your needs/wants to him and can he meet them? Can he compromise (some people on the spectrum really struggle to compromise? Can he deal with stress/pressure or needs a lot of time to himself to decompress? Can he live with someone else easily or does everything need to be done his way? How much does he enjoy physical contact/intimacy? Can he perform sexually, maintain an erection, enjoy affection and give affection?

In the last 3 months, you should have an idea of these things. That's what dating is about really - not teaching a man how to kiss but whether his life, habits and personality are compatible with your own. It's unlikely he just gets bored of women, i think he struggles with the day to day pressures of a relationship. As it messes up his ordered life to some extent. Has he ever lived with other people or looked after anyone? Even a pet? Because to get to 40 with no relationship means to be very set in your ways - so unless he's had experience of other domestic arrangements - this could be a challenge. E.g having a very rigid schedule that may not work for you. Will he be ok seeing a partner every day or will he only expect 2-3 days a week?

I don't think you should write him off for being 40 and not having a relationship. BUT you do need to answer some of these questions to determine whether this nice, funny man is actually capable of having a relationship. Or how much of the emotional labour and compromise would have to come from you. I would also initiate the sex ASAP so you can see what you're working with. I would take it as a concern that he did not know how to kiss without coaching - it means you may have to invest a lot of time into teaching him about sex too..

To say, my bf was 33 and had never had a long term gf before and hardly any dates. He's definitely on the spectrum though never diagnosed but I asked him outright and he said he'd wondered about it. Compromising did not come easy to him and that took some work on my part - also the need for order and a schedule, and he was oddly formal initially. But he wasn't as rigid and also young enough that his habits weren't quite so ingrained. However he was naturally a very good kisser and very good in bed (and quite confident with me in initiating things (we slept together on our first date!) - so I found it a lot easier to deal with. Still a bit of hard work though! His brother on the other hand is 39 and a much more extreme version of him and it's impossible for him to have a relationship- because it all get too much for him the more lives get blended. Too much disruption from his life.

I think if you do want this to work, you need to be able to communicate with him openly about what challenges he's faced with relationships in the past. Then consider how much work it will be for you to deal with any neuroses/anxiety he may have.

@HedgeVeg

I'm with the PPs who mentioned autism - my stepdad, sister and father in law all have it and they are similar to what you are describing. It's not a deal-breaker, and of course people with autism can have great and fulfilling relationships, it's just a different way of processing things and often affection etc is more of a learned behaviour rather than an innate one IYSWIM.

That being said, my mother shouldn't have married my step-dad. She is very emotionally needy, she has a lot of insecurities and would be best with a partner who is emotionally intuitive and who's communication style is emotional, rather than logical. They have a very poor relationship - he's straight forward, logical, one-track minded and enjoys getting things done. This has great benefits but also makes him stubborn, inflexible and quite emotionally unavailable.
She's flighty, emotional, laid back and generally very "go with the flow" - she likes to talk about feelings, and is very tactile and huggy.
She feels unloved by him, and he feels smothered by her.

Both of them are wonderful people - it's just not a good match.

So in relation to the OP - it's really working out whether, in the long term, his communication style (formal, logical, reasoned, proper, "to the rule book", black and white) is something that works for you. Do you prefer a practical, solution-based relationship which may lack intuition or would you flourish more in an emotionally driven, tactile sort of relationship?

I hope that makes sense

Good post.

I do think if someone was autistic they would know by age forty and would want to tell me?

I'm 53, I was diagnosed last year, I've barely told anyone, certainly no-one I've dated, not even the guy I'm currently sleeping with. None of my family know.
He might be undiagnosed, but it's equally possible he's not autistic at all, there really isn't enough information for people to jump to that conclusion.

Personally, at that age, needing to be told what to do in bed would bore me rigid. But I've never had much patience with people not knowing what they're doing in bed.

“2021DNA

He sounds fine. You on the other hand sound judgmental, obsessive and controlling. I think he deserves better for his first proper relationship.“

Nonsense. And how the very fuck does he sound “fine”?

He sounds autistic to me too. Not necessarily diagnosed. He may function well enough that he gets by, can hold down a job, has never needed to go for a diagnosis. But the excessive formality, inability to hold down or deepen a relationship, lack of spontaneity, following procedures, zoning out... sounds like a lot of autistic signs to me. But in any case, whether he is diagnosably autistic or not, these are all deeply ingrained parts of his personality and the way he operates and they are not just surface things that he can get over.

I doubt that he will "mess you about". But there is also a huge doubt that he will be able to satisfy all your needs in the long run. And sometimes autistic men who have to "follow procedures" to find and keep a girlfriend, may also decide that marriage is the "end point" when they can stop following procedures and also stop making an effort to meet their wife's needs.

If you really need to "not faff around" then you need to split up with him and move on. Because otherwise you need to proceed slowly and with extreme caution. You will need to make sure you discuss your expectations and his expectations about what a long term relationship or marriage should be like - and that takes time! He really may not be the person you hope for and after you have put even more time and effort into this relationship you may feel it is even harder to move on even if this relationship isn't what you really want. Be careful about the "sunk cost fallacy".

I have 3 friends (girls) who sound the same as him. All were too into sports or work and had the odd casual thing. If he is autistic he is if he's not it's hilarious people jumped for this (many in my family with AS possibly including me) I say see how you go (though the whole post makes me think you're really not sure if you're even asking)