Was he calling me fat?

[AllRainedOut]

I posted earlier this year because I was pissed off that pretty much any man I've ever dated has commented negatively on my appearance at some point - either comments about my looks or body. Often hints or direct comments that I'm fat. I always end it within days. Never immediately because I don't want them to think they've upset me.

The general consensus was that I'm either just unlucky or I'm reading things into comments that aren't intended.

Well, it's happened again. So I wanted to run it by you lot for an impartial judgement.

I've been seeing a man I've known for around 18 months since January. He a friend of friends and we've loosely been in each other's social group for a few years but only really became friends 18 months ago.

I'm a size 12 and 5'4.

We went out on Saturday for the day. He was gigging in the evening so needed to get changed. I stayed as I was. I asked him which shirt he was changing into and said he didn't know, what did I think. So I suggested a shirt of his that he knows is my favourite.

The following conversation went like this (pretty much verbatim).

Him: "OK, I'll wear that one then as you like it "
Me: "I do. You always look nice but I really like you in that one "
Him: "OK... I feel I really ought to return the favour... oh I feel really bad saying this... That dress you're wearing really isn't the most flattering one you have"
Me: "Really? Oh well, that's tough really, it's the one I'm wearing and I don't have another with me."

Fwiw, the dress is casual - a black jersey maxi dress with a loose tie belt. I thought I looked quite nice in it and, more than that, the last time I wore it, someone asked me if I'd lost weight because it was "very slimming."

It possibly isn't the 'prettiest' dress I own, nor the most flattering but I don't think I looked so bad in it that it warranted a comment - especially as we were going out for the day/evening and would be spending it with his friends.

I didn't let it bother me as such but it was on my mind the whole day/evening 😕

This is typical of the sort of comment I get. It's rare that anyone has actually said directly, "You're fat," But these 'innocent' or helpful comments (eg "you look lovely but could stand to lose a couple of kilos") are ones I always get. Hence, I haven't had a relationship lasting more than a few months for 10 years!

If I'd asked him and he'd said that, I wouldn't mind at all because then I'd have been looking for an honest response. But I've never asked him, or anyone else, "How do I look?" because I don't see the point in inviting the negative comments.

What does it sound like to you?

This thread has also been on my mind

My initial reaction was you are being too sensitive

However, on reflection and mulling over the fact that I tell my partner know when I think he doesn't look nice in something and vice versa - but the difference is a big one - I know my partner would rather me tell him - if I knew it upset him I definitely wouldn't -

Similarly I have some friends who I know would welcome it and others who would make them a gibbering wreck so no way on earth would I say anything.

so I suppose it's a case of does he know it upsets you and as he said the "I feel awful" comment I think he does know and therefore in the biggest 360 I've ever had on mumsnet I think you are correct

You don't seem to know each other very well and that's the bit I'd worry about, not what he meant by the comment

But I do think you should talk to him rather than just bin him off on the back of one comment

lamp That's the thing. We know each other very well. I think he is using some of what he knows about me against in very subtle ways.

He knows about background and what my mother said growing up.

He does compliment other people (men and women) and not with vague implied compliments. There's no inference required.

I'm beginning to see that the way he is with me is very different to the way he is with other people and not in good way.

God, no! I'd never tell a man he'd upset me. If he can't work out social graces for himself, I'm not going to teach him. I'd normally just walk away at this point. I just don't knownif that's what other people meant previously that I read stuff into comments that isn't there because of my history.

OP my DP is generally loving and kind but he does occasionally put his foot in it with me. I tell him, but then I trust him not to take advantage of my vulnerabilities. And it is really difficult to say if you are reading too much into odd comments or if you are in fact dating arseholes. There are a lot of them about. I can see why you're confused as it seems as if your instincts have been criticised and you can no longer trust them. So you've put up all your defences. But defences don't work in relationships, not to that extent.

I could feel my defences rising so responded in the only way I could which was by giving no indication he'd upset me.

People who are generally nice and decent respond to upset by trying not to upset you again. This defence mechanism shows that you don't trust him to be a decent person. Whether that's because he's untrustworthy or because of your background I can't tell. I agree with pp that a session with a therapist to talk this through would be beneficial.

It's one thing being criticised when I haven't made an effort but it would be quite another to be criticised when i had. So I don't.

See this makes me think you are, subconsciously, seeking out and dating arseholes. That way when the relationship fails you can say the same thing. It's one thing a relationship failing when you've already picked a wanker, it's another when it fails if you've picked a decent bloke. So as a defence you just pick wankers and then it doesn't hurt quite so much when it fails. You set yourself up for failure because it's better to fail when you're expecting it than when you were trying to succeed.

I really hope you can find a way out of this OP. I spent a long time falling for unsuitable men and had a lot of therapy. I spent time being single and happy. Fortunately I'm now in a couple and happy but I did have to get to the stage where I trusted my instincts again before that could happen also my horse liked him so I figured he must be okay

@AllRainedOut

lamp That's the thing. We know each other very well. I think he is using some of what he knows about me against in very subtle ways.

He knows about background and what my mother said growing up.

He does compliment other people (men and women) and not with vague implied compliments. There's no inference required.

I'm beginning to see that the way he is with me is very different to the way he is with other people and not in good way.

In that case I understand how you feel the way you do We need to feel safe with our partners - he doesn't make you feel safe therefore I think you are better off without him.

Compliments aren't things anyone needs to spend time unraveling and wondering what was meant by them. You seem to have the measure of him, why did you choose him?

Hm I think you’re right that he’s actually not being nice.

A female friend would say “that’s a nice dress” or “I love your dress”. A boyfriend should be seeing and complimenting you, not the clothes - “you look lovely in that dress” “I love that dress on you.”

I’m sorry your mum was so evil. It sounds like you still have a lot more unravelling of that treatment to do, but I don’t think you’re wrong about him.

I wore a new dress last night. He opened the door and the first thing he said was, "That's a nice dress,". He has said things like that before- those are nice shoes, that's a nice dress. It's a comment on the item not me. He'd say the same about them displayed in a shop.

You mean like when he literally said

That DRESS you're wearing really isn't the most flattering one you have

And you think 'The comment he made last weekend wasn't a comment about the dress it was a comment about me.'

When in both cases he's clearly referring to THE DRESS!

Just dump him OP please.
You don't sound like you even like the poor bloke.

Although it’s just possible he knows you struggle with compliments so he’s trying to compliment you in a neutral way that won’t make you feel weird? You might just have to have a conversation about it to find out.

Why did I choose him?

I was attracted to him. I saw the way he spoke to and treated other people and made a judgement about him based on that. I've only ever heard people speak positively about him.

He had been single for a long time and his previous relationships have been short lived apart from one. I think I'm beginning to see why.

He also doesn't have any issues complimenting other people. He told me when we first met that that week he'd told a young woman in a shop that she had the most beautiful hair he'd ever seen. The most I've had is "You've had your hair cut".

Ok, now that is a bit weird, why would he tell her that and why would he tell you he told her that????
I thought you were being waaaay too sensitive but not so sure now 🤔

All rainedout. I think @CoronaBanana was standing up for you. It's up to you what your wear. I realise your point is different, but she was defending you against people who were posting a variation of "Wear this dress, do your hair differently, make a different effort to be attractive for him".

Might be worth you looking up Shark Theory, how sometimes women end up with these blokes who are just negative about them. It resonated a lot with me. I had a series of bloke who were like this, and because I had a bit of an abusive very critical upbringing it was familiar to me, and it took me a long time to end these relationships. My exDH started by love-bombing me, and in the end was negging me, so I do get what you mean.

I am a chunk older than you, and it has taken a long time to properly recognise the negging, and call people out on it, and see red flags. the current Mr Sponge will tie himself in knots not to be negative. He doesn't like people to have hurt feelings, cos he isn't an arsehole.

I've had men feel quite entitled to comment on my body/face in random situations. At first I was frozen like a rabbit in the headlights. These days if it safe to do so, I call it out. How dare these blokes do this? Classic male entitlement/misogyny and it sounds like this was at play with the older arseholes in the group situation you mentioned. Your other friends should have called him out. By allowing this, they let it continue. I have seen women put in this situation, and I call it out, again when safe. Just had a belly full of it in many years of working in a male dominated profession. I have had women come to thank me later. FWIW one of them was absolutely beautiful. She wasn't being negged on that but her intelligence. She had plenty. She also confided that men seem to hone in her achilles heel of this. To me, criticised for my looks, this was a revelation. Mind absolutely blown. Some men just don't like women very much or actively hate them. My looks are fine BTW, and I'm a couple of sizes bigger than you

This is reminding me of how my ex used to say “you’re beautiful to me” which sounds like a compliment, right? But it’s not how he meant it :( it’s that “to me” on the end. He used to tell me how his ex was gorgeous, a model, he had (naked) photographs of her on his wall. He said people would stop in the street and gasp as she walked by. Whereas I was nice looking, but I really shouldn’t wear those boots, or that dress, and maybe should consider a boob job. But “you’re beautiful to me”. As in everyone else thinks you’re hideous. And if I ever was to say I didn’t like the way he said that, it was because I was insecure and I ought to be grateful that he was paying me a compliment.

You know him more than we do. You know how he speaks about others compared to how he speaks to you. Trust your gut.

OP, bin him, he is rude and you have repeatedly stated he is very deliberate in his words.

This guy is not nice.

You got your hair cut is not a compliment, it is a statement of fact.

Very deliberate.

He sounds like an arse.
Listen to your gut.

My first (of many ) arguments with my now husband was about a maxi dress. He decided to comment negatively about it and I want mad....
I think he learnt his lesson and doesn't comment on what I wear other than to tell me I look good.
I'd give him some slack, to a man, a long black dress probably isn't very 'exciting' but hopefully he will learn not to comment again.

Yes, I get the difference exactly, Cheeeesecake it's what is left unsaid as much as what is said.

If he is being disingenuous, I don't want to give him the satisfaction of it asch as anything by talking to him about it.

I think because it's all I've experienced I was just sad that it had happened again and cross with myself that these criticisms could be made.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants

Ah, I get what you're saying. What sort of things do you say to call them out on it?

I'm afraid I still fall into a freeze response on the whole.

I was reading a thread this morning where the poster was talking about her tummy. All the lovely.coents from other people about how their partner's had never really noticed. I've just never had that at all.

Some men just don't like women very much or actively hate them.

Yes. A lot of it is a power play. Men like to get their rejection in first. If they see you out there, being confident and doing your thing, the nastier ones will try to put you down for that confidence.

@Allrainedout If I'm sticking up for someone else, it's usually been a variation of "Do you actually mean that/do you intend to say that as it sounded", gives them a chance to reconsider, back down. Even if they don't acknowledge it, they know you have 'seen' them at work. Other people have too.

More difficult to do in personal relationships. The 'you are beautiful to me thing'. .. Ah yes, had that, and it wasn't a compliment. IME you can call them out, but they refuse to acknowledge it, cos their intention really is to gaslight and negg you, so if it's a pattern the only option is to leave then to it.

I really do recommend the Shark Theory thing. Can't tell you how many bells it rang for me.

OP, I am fat, and dress like a lunatic. I dress only to please myself. For what it's worth, I'd have shoved your boyfriend's amp up his arse. You sound amazing and do not need to be sartorially advised by a wedding singer.

@WendelFong

OP, I am fat, and dress like a lunatic. I dress only to please myself. For what it's worth, I'd have shoved your boyfriend's amp up his arse. You sound amazing and do not need to be sartorially advised by a wedding singer.

😂😂😂

I like you!

SpongeBobJudgeyPants

Thanks.

I'll look up that shark theory.thing.

I did pull him up on something he said to me once and, tbf to him, he hasn't said it again. I just need a few stock phrases to fall back on.

@WendelFong

OP, I am fat, and dress like a lunatic. I dress only to please myself. For what it's worth, I'd have shoved your boyfriend's amp up his arse. You sound amazing and do not need to be sartorially advised by a wedding singer.

🤣🤣🤣

Well, when you put it like that...

@WendelFong

OP, I am fat, and dress like a lunatic. I dress only to please myself. For what it's worth, I'd have shoved your boyfriend's amp up his arse. You sound amazing and do not need to be sartorially advised by a wedding singer.

👏👏

@WendelFong

OP, I am fat, and dress like a lunatic. I dress only to please myself. For what it's worth, I'd have shoved your boyfriend's amp up his arse. You sound amazing and do not need to be sartorially advised by a wedding singer.