Was he calling me fat?

[AllRainedOut]

I posted earlier this year because I was pissed off that pretty much any man I've ever dated has commented negatively on my appearance at some point - either comments about my looks or body. Often hints or direct comments that I'm fat. I always end it within days. Never immediately because I don't want them to think they've upset me.

The general consensus was that I'm either just unlucky or I'm reading things into comments that aren't intended.

Well, it's happened again. So I wanted to run it by you lot for an impartial judgement.

I've been seeing a man I've known for around 18 months since January. He a friend of friends and we've loosely been in each other's social group for a few years but only really became friends 18 months ago.

I'm a size 12 and 5'4.

We went out on Saturday for the day. He was gigging in the evening so needed to get changed. I stayed as I was. I asked him which shirt he was changing into and said he didn't know, what did I think. So I suggested a shirt of his that he knows is my favourite.

The following conversation went like this (pretty much verbatim).

Him: "OK, I'll wear that one then as you like it "
Me: "I do. You always look nice but I really like you in that one "
Him: "OK... I feel I really ought to return the favour... oh I feel really bad saying this... That dress you're wearing really isn't the most flattering one you have"
Me: "Really? Oh well, that's tough really, it's the one I'm wearing and I don't have another with me."

Fwiw, the dress is casual - a black jersey maxi dress with a loose tie belt. I thought I looked quite nice in it and, more than that, the last time I wore it, someone asked me if I'd lost weight because it was "very slimming."

It possibly isn't the 'prettiest' dress I own, nor the most flattering but I don't think I looked so bad in it that it warranted a comment - especially as we were going out for the day/evening and would be spending it with his friends.

I didn't let it bother me as such but it was on my mind the whole day/evening 😕

This is typical of the sort of comment I get. It's rare that anyone has actually said directly, "You're fat," But these 'innocent' or helpful comments (eg "you look lovely but could stand to lose a couple of kilos") are ones I always get. Hence, I haven't had a relationship lasting more than a few months for 10 years!

If I'd asked him and he'd said that, I wouldn't mind at all because then I'd have been looking for an honest response. But I've never asked him, or anyone else, "How do I look?" because I don't see the point in inviting the negative comments.

What does it sound like to you?

@NoSquirrels

I'm OK with how I look but I know the men who've commented aren't. When I'm faced with it again, I see myself how mother and they see me.

I also just want to reiterate - you aren’t seeing yourself “how they see you”. Your abusive mother did not believe her teenage daughter was hideously ugly, fat or deformed. She said all that because she was abusive. The men who have commented negatively on you, they don’t “see you” as a deformed hideous thing. They’re also pathetic individuals taking swipes in a power game. Those men aren’t “not OK with how you look”. They’re unimportant in many ways.

I do feel for you.

I really agree with this.

Nice, decent men don't comment negatively on a woman's appearance, they know better and they are NOT dickheads.

Dickheads do.

Dickheads that have low self esteem and want to keep women in their place or that may thinking they are punching above their weight and are nervous you might realise it and dump them.

This has all reminded me of a guy that I was kind of keen on that was a colleague of my flatmate and friend in my early 20's.

We had been flirting madly one night when we were out with a crowd one gorgeous summer's evening.

In the course of chatting he said "your arms are a bit hairy"....I immediately said "they are not!" and he laughed....I went to the loo within a few minutes and avoided him studiously for the rest of the evening.

I remember thinking 'fxxking cheek of him'.

I had never come across that before but definitely some men are very premeditated in doing it.

I can well believe the OP wants to finish with him, why waste time with a mean spirited person.
It is the small things like this that can show you the core of someone's personality.

That's why meanness also tells you so much about someone.

& a perfect response to any arsehole criticising you in the pub or else way is to look them up & down & then straight in the eye & laugh, followed by 'ah test & you are gods girt to women so can afford to be critical" & walk away laughing.... & then forget about it.

Every arsehole has an opinion, WTF would you care what an arsehole thinks

"You know, you really upset me the other day when you said X. If I'd asked for your opinion, I wouldn't have minded but you must have noticed that I never ask for your opinion on my appearance. Criticising my outfit when you knew I couldn’t change anyway felt like you were deliberately undermining my confidence. It’s a big issue to me in relationships because of my upbringing.”
Yes this is perfect. If he says anything other than "oh shit, I'm sorry I never intended that" then you can close down the conversation and finish your relationship without 1) having revealed too much of yourself and 2) having given him the opportunity to say anything more hurtful.

I think I've read other posts by you a long while back and if so, you really have come so far in your outlook and attitude. Maybe you could see this as an opportunity to continue that growth.

Urgh, excuse typos

@AllRainedOut

I get that but he wasn't commenting on the dress. He was commenting on me in the dress. If he'd just said he didn't like it becuase it was x, y or z - fair enough.

He said the dress didn't flatter you I.e. that the dress made you look not quite as attractive as you usually look.

That comment tells you that a) he's a bit tactless but also that b) he thinks you're attractive. However you refuse to acknowledge that.

If you've been together for 18 months, cared about each other and he's generally been decent and kind but that one comment is enough for you to agonise this much and belittle him publically as mean, then as I said before I honestly think you should leave him.

And do a lot more work on yourself before embarking on another relationship

However you refuse to acknowledge that.

I haven't refused to acknowledge anything.

I'm pleased to hear it, but it doesn't read that way to me

Have you asked him what he meant yet?

So you gave him a compliment and his idea of "returning the favour" was to insult you :/

So you gave him a compliment and his idea of "returning the favour" was to insult you :/

That's about the size of it.

Have you asked him what he meant yet?

No. I'm mulling over a variation on the suggestion upthread.

@AllRainedOut

However you refuse to acknowledge that.

I haven't refused to acknowledge anything.

So you do think he thinks you're attractive?

Tbh, I have no idea!

I suppose he must do to some degree but I don't feel like he does.

@AllRainedOut

So you gave him a compliment and his idea of "returning the favour" was to insult you :/

That's about the size of it.

Have you asked him what he meant yet?

No. I'm mulling over a variation on the suggestion upthread.

Is this what they call "negging"?

No. I'm mulling over a variation on the suggestion upthread

Please don't leave it too late as it's going to make you look really odd & hard work & dishonest & unable to communicate too, if you do

I had a very insecure needy BF in the past & he'd stew on things & then want to discuss it weeks later. It used to drive me nuts as I felt I couldn't trust him to be honest with his feelings & felt like big red flags to me, so I ended the relationship after the 3rd time it happened as I just couldn't be with someone who couldn't just be straight with me

Good luck

My dh said he hated purple and I had a few purple dresses so I didn’t wear them when out with him. Only a few years later he said he really disliked one purple dress on me - not the colour purple but he didn’t know how to tell me. I mean we all don’t like things partners wear I guess. For what it’s worth I was in my best physical shape at the time.
I do think it was insensitive when you were about to go out though, did he think you had other clothes to change into?
I rarely get compliments from dh these days as live in leggings and t-shirts but I wore a new dress the other day and he said I looked really nice. If you’re dressing down a lot , not wearing makeup etc to play down your looks then compliments will probably only come when you look different from usual

I personally wouldn't bat an eyelid, I like it when people express an opinion. It was about the dress not you & he's allowed to like and not like stuff. I think you'd be crazy to extrapolate from 'i didn't like that dress on you' to 'he called me fat and I'm dumping you'.

Has it every occurred to you that...erm...you might not be that much of a catch?

Which absolute rotter posted this? How unhelpful. Just not constructive.

That was mild compared to the rest of the post. It's been deleted now but it was awful. Some people are horrible

Cant believe the mods havent closed this down yet.

I've been mulling this over and I think you should talk to him about it.

I have a critical mother and although I don't see her much, she's still there inside my head.

I think he's made a foolish insensitive comment that lots of other people would brush off but that you can't because of your history.

I'd tell him exactly what's going on in your head and how you feel. My guess is that he'll be mortified and that he didn't mean that much by it. That it was a thoughtless throw away comment and he regrets it if it made you feel so bad.

If he doubles down and says anything else negative about your appearance, then you've got your answer and he's a dick. If he tries to reassure you, then he's just someone who made an insensitive comment, but is nice enough most of the time. I think you owe it to yourself to find out. Don't just walk away with no discussion.

I went round to see him last night. I didn't say anything. I couldn't bring myself to. I didn't put an end to things either - he's got a busy work weekend coming up and it didn't really feel fair to initiate a heavy conversation.

A few people have suggested there might be 'other things' that meant I interpreted it the way I did. I think they might be right.

I wore a new dress last night. He opened the door and the first thing he said was, "That's a nice dress,". He has said things like that before- those are nice shoes, that's a nice dress. It's a comment on the item not me. He'd say the same about them displayed in a shop.

A couple of times I've worn something and he's said, "I always think girls look really cute when they wear (item of clothing/accessory)" and it always feels like the end of the sentence in missing eg "and you do too" or "but not this time". I don't know how I'm supposed to take it.

The comment he made last weekend wasn't a comment about the dress it was a comment about me. It was different. And he knew that or he wouldn't have caveated it with he felt really bad beforehand.

I think he's made a foolish insensitive comment that lots of other people would brush off but that you can't because of your history.

I think that's probably a fair assessment but then it's just going to keep on happening, isn't it?

I think the "I always thinknother girls look cute..." type comments are a type of negging. Explicitly telling me he finds something I'm wear cute or sexy on other women is designed to make me feet inadequate, I think.

He's very kind and thoughtful in other respects and very careful and measured with his words. Nothing he says is ever accidental or unintended. He will know exactly what he is saying.

Do you think it's fair to say that "that's a nice dress" and "that isn't your most flattering dress" are equivalent comments, i.e. either both about the clothes or both about how you look in them? From an outside perspective you seem to disregard the possible compliment and take the possible put-down personally.

I don't know how I'm supposed to take it.

My DP finds paying compliments extremely stressful, because he worries about coming across sleazy/pervy or otherwise unintentionally badly and he thinks a lot about being respectful.

He would say "that's a nice dress" when he means "you look gorgeous".

I think the fact he said that was positive.

Also the "I think girls look cute when....." sounds like he's trying to be complementary but is actually being clumsy.

You definitely need to open up a bit with him. Even if when he says "that's a nice dress" ask him a question. "What do you like about it?"
In this case you could have used it as an opportunity to explore why he didn't like the other dress.

Tbh from that update it sounds like style is something quite important to him and he literally is just commenting on your clothes. I wonder what he would buy for you to wear. It could be he can build your confidence to try different things

I appreciate what you're saying but he is very deliberate and intentional with his words. He isn't clumsy or unthinking. He knows exactly what he intends to say and what he intends to communicate by it.

He also doesn't have any issues complimenting other people. He told me when we first met that that week he'd told a young woman in a shop that she had the most beautiful hair he'd ever seen. The most I've had is "You've had your hair cut".

I know what he liked about the dress - it was floral and feminine.

If someone wore something and I said 'I like it when men wear X", I'd be expressing a generalised personal preference not intending to compliment that person specifically.